DI v.s DII

[Antichrist]

Are you looking for something for extensive backcountry travel or occasional?
After buying a '97 for my wife last year I can say I'll never buy another newer than a '95.

 

[dcwhybrew]

As I said, it is the 7-seat model of the DII that has rear EAS and front ACE - the 5-seaters have coil springs all round, which is much better for overland use.

In the US you could get 7 seaters with out the ACE and SLS. I had a 2002 DII SD7. It was the SD trim with 7 seats. No ACE, no SLS, no secondary air injection - thank goodness.

I assumed that you could get 300Tdi DIs out there, but if they're all V8, while much nicer to drive and respectably reliable, it'd be fairly thirsty and the ignition is not terribly easy to make fully water-proof - the V8 is a particularly water sensitive petrol engine.

Are you teasing us on purpose? LOL...nope not in the USA, no Tdi's unless they were conversions or brought over. None sold new with Tdis.

The D3, aka LR3 is an extremely unreliable car, like the RR Sport it shares so many systems with. they have a 65% chance of complete break down in their first year according to the JD power survey and are one of the most reliably unreliable cars on UK roads. The front suspension arms seem to be very weak, the smallest accidents or bumps ripping off the front's lower wish bones and they go through suspension bushes quickly, which are not replaceable (the whole suspension arms have to be replaced), the electronics play up and they are prone to problems with several suspension and engine systems. Clutch replacement is hugely expensive as the body has to be removed from the chassis to gain access. I wouldn't run one if it was given to me unless it was under full warranty, and I get rid of it before that expired. I would never under any circumstances buy a LR 3 or 4 or a RRS. I am on a friendly relationship with my local LR specialist - they let me use their tools and equipment and give me special deals on parts and labour. One of their mechanics is a close personal friend and was just here for tea on his way home. they all hate the D3 and RRS for their poor reliability and terrible design for maintenance, though they respect the vehicles' capabilities. The amount of D3s that I see in their work shops with problem after problem is truly shocking. To be fair, though, their bodies and cabins are better built with less rattles, rain leaks and rust.

I absolutely disagree with this. 2 of my seven Rovers were LR3s and they have been significantly more reliable than my previous Rovers. I read somewhere (unfortunately I can't find it now) that the LR Las Vegas dealership was quoted saying their warranty claims were down 60% vs previous LR models when the LR3 was introduced. I certainly wish LR would build something more simple and just as reliable...I also wish I would win the lottery.

 

[Roverhound]

I've never had problems with water on my 2000 D2. With the coils on the back of the engine making simple wire changes a pain in the ***, it does keep them away from the wet.
The ecu is on the inside keeping it safe.

 

[upcruiser]

I will tell you, I have really been enjoying my '95. Its been great and really a pretty solid rig as far as how hard I have used it. I just completed a 7,000 mile trip with it http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/58554-North-American-Ramblings-of-a-Perpetual-Transientand other than having to replace a set of control arm bushings and a pesky front main seal leak it performed great. As good as I could expect for a vehicle with almost 180,000 miles on it now. I think having a dizzy just makes servicing, tuning up and trouble shooting that much easier. Also I think the approach and departure angles on the DI are about perfect for an 4 door SUV. Yeah there is some gear whine but I actually like it, reminds me that I am driving a real 4wd vehicle. Its the perfect blend of functionality and comfort IMHO. I guess the extra space in a DII is nice, but really, how much gear are you travelling with? Maybe with more than two folks doing an extended trip I could see the need for more room. Anyway, I have no experience with DII's personally, just friends that have/had them. I always here about the constant issues they have, but none of them have '04's which is suppodely the holy grail of DII's.

 

[Snagger]

I absolutely disagree with this. 2 of my seven Rovers were LR3s and they have been significantly more reliable than my previous Rovers. I read somewhere (unfortunately I can't find it now) that the LR Las Vegas dealership was quoted saying their warranty claims were down 60% vs previous LR models when the LR3 was introduced. I certainly wish LR would build something more simple and just as reliable...I also wish I would win the lottery.

There are always exceptions to trends and you seem to have been lucky, but I can assure you that the D3 and RRS are even worse for reliability than the P38. I have seen the same individual cars in those workshops for different faults month after month, and I saw a clutch change which cost £1500
because of the labour, and that was at a non-franchised dealer where the labour was less than half the price of the franchised places and they found a quicker way of doing it without removing the entire body from the chassis. I have also seen several wishbone failures in the flesh, not just comments or photos on forums like this.

The editor of LRe brought a press fleet D3 on a trip I did around the Alps and it did really well - comfortable, quiet, huge carrying capacity and not a glitch, but you'd expect a brand new vehicle on the press fleet to be reliable. I don't question its comfort or capability - it was very impressive, but official surveys by organisations like the AA (UK version of AAA), its rival the RAC, JD Power and so on all back what I have seen with my own eyes hanging around the workshops with my friend - they are mostly extremely unreliable and hugely expensive to repair or maintain.

I suspect the decrease in warranty claims at the Vegas dealership may be due to the quality of the body and cabin improving, so all the minor and cosmetic faults have disappeared, like rattles, squeaks, rain leaks, central locking, electric window and sunroof problems and the like. Maybe LR are more careful with the assembly of US bound or all export vehicles, but there are serious design flaws in the vehicle from a maintenance view point - they just aren't built with an eye beyond the three year warranty period. Previous vehicles have a bad reputation because of niggling faults rather than major problems and due to so many owners or garages doing shoddy repairs which go wrong again or affect associated systems.

It sounds like you have a good one (someone has to), so don't be tempted to get rid of it to buy a newer one unless it goes wrong or its warranty period is expiring!

 

[brushogger]

I have an '04 D2 with 59k miles. Head gaskets started weeping at 43k and I changed them. I put a throttle body heater kit on at 56k. That's been the only problems. It's been a gem on and off road. I installed 2" spring spacers and 255 85r 16 tires on steelies. Other than that, it's completely stock. I carry tools, a spare tstat and crank position sensor, oil filter and some fluids. I'm completely comfortable going just about anywhere in it.

 

[Goochm]

I bought my '96 Disco with 96K miles and 5-spd on it six years ago, now have almost 150K. I've driven on dirt almost every day. I "Disco-nnected" the abs and have had ZERO problems since, replaced a cv joint and otherwise it's been as reliable as the day is long...and hopefully will be much longer! The only mods are a 2"lift done by PO, and I removed the back seats. It goes anywhere I want to go, and unless gas starts to be priced by the liter I doubt I'll ever drive anthing but a LR. Still, if I were to upgrade, it would be to an '04 DII as basic as possible, ie no EAS, no ACE, no sunroofs, cloth seats, and (wishes of wishes) a TDi with 5spd...Cheers.

 

[kferg]

I've got both a '95 5 speed and an '04 "S" and I use both as daily drivers depending on my mood. Both have been reliable for me. I aquired the D1 in 2002 with 45K on it. Now it has 122K and it has had a new clutch around 70K, new front bushings, rebuilt swivell pins, new exhaust, some minor rust I repaired, new valley gasket and new brakes done over the years. The clearcoat on the hood and roof is shot as is the leather seat bottoms. However she has never let me down and issues have proved to be simple to resolve. It is a great beach truck and camping vehicle that I will never let go of. The "04" I bought in 2007 with 30K miles, now has 77K and has been very reliable as well until recently. The build quality is better than the '95 as is the paint quality. It also has a bit more room and is more comfortable on long trips. It had the dreaded 3 amigos one time but the extended warranty covered the ABS repair. I've had some O2 sensor issues and EVAP issues that have given me some trouble just recently. I've bought an ODBII reader that makes diagnosis easier and less frustrating. The traction control combined with the locking center diff is a great combination. I'd be torn to let go of it but if I had to get rid of one it wold be the '04 due to the simplicity of the D1 to work on (no ODBII to worry with, no emissions testing here on a '95, distributor vs coil pack). Either way you go be prepared to work on it unless you like paying other people. I wasn't a mechanic until I bought my first rover. Now I have little fear of diving in. Again, most things have proved easy to resolve, sometimes time consuming but not really difficult.

 

[Howski]

Either way you go be prepared to work on it unless you like paying other people.

^ This

 

[series 1]

I recommend a DI. They are easier to work on. You'll be better off with the manual center diff lock. Some DIIs have these and if they don't you can install one, but all DIs come with them so it would be an easier option. Also, if money is a factor then you can get a DI for cheaper than a DII and thus have more money for basic mods. If you do get a DI then I highly recommend checking the coolant overflow tank. If it is black then it is probably the stock tank and they tend to start leaking at the seam after a while. Buy a replacement one (it should be offwhiteish) and you'll be good to go.

 

[Jwestpro]

With my beloved DII retired to the easy life in Denver Colorado, I find myself Land Rover less. As much as I love the simplicity of my little Jeep JK, I'm not so in love with car payments and it's overall lack in creature comforts, cargo/passenger space and maybe most importantly it doesn't have that land rover feel. So the question is if I go for the DI am I able to rely on it more in the backcountry and not have to chant the mantra of my DII "It's not broken, it's British"?

You may find this as useful consideration even if to bolster your rover position even more.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/resources/91-guide/351-top-10-used-overland-vehicles.html

 

[Navman]

There are always exceptions to trends and you seem to have been lucky, but I can assure you that the D3 and RRS are even worse for reliability than the P38. I have seen the same individual cars in those workshops for different faults month after month, and I saw a clutch change which cost £1500
because of the labour, and that was at a non-franchised dealer where the labour was less than half the price of the franchised places and they found a quicker way of doing it without removing the entire body from the chassis. I have also seen several wishbone failures in the flesh, not just comments or photos on forums like this.

The editor of LRe brought a press fleet D3 on a trip I did around the Alps and it did really well - comfortable, quiet, huge carrying capacity and not a glitch, but you'd expect a brand new vehicle on the press fleet to be reliable. I don't question its comfort or capability - it was very impressive, but official surveys by organisations like the AA (UK version of AAA), its rival the RAC, JD Power and so on all back what I have seen with my own eyes hanging around the workshops with my friend - they are mostly extremely unreliable and hugely expensive to repair or maintain.

I suspect the decrease in warranty claims at the Vegas dealership may be due to the quality of the body and cabin improving, so all the minor and cosmetic faults have disappeared, like rattles, squeaks, rain leaks, central locking, electric window and sunroof problems and the like. Maybe LR are more careful with the assembly of US bound or all export vehicles, but there are serious design flaws in the vehicle from a maintenance view point - they just aren't built with an eye beyond the three year warranty period. Previous vehicles have a bad reputation because of niggling faults rather than major problems and due to so many owners or garages doing shoddy repairs which go wrong again or affect associated systems.

It sounds like you have a good one (someone has to), so don't be tempted to get rid of it to buy a newer one unless it goes wrong or its warranty period is expiring!

Well, I guess me and everyone else I know got extremely lucky. No one that I know with an LR3 has had any problems with them. I know there are problems out there but I have had zero. Okay, okay, the OE tires were junk but that's it other than oil changes and brake pads. Sure, it's only been 3 years but the first 3 years in my D1 were much, much worse.

65% chance of complete breakdown in the first year??? Right.

 

[Roverhound]

You may find this as useful consideration even if to bolster your rover position even more.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/resources/91-guide/351-top-10-used-overland-vehicles.html

That's a funny little blog.

 

[Snagger]

Well, I guess me and everyone else I know got extremely lucky. No one that I know with an LR3 has had any problems with them. I know there are problems out there but I have had zero. Okay, okay, the OE tires were junk but that's it other than oil changes and brake pads. Sure, it's only been 3 years but the first 3 years in my D1 were much, much worse.

65% chance of complete breakdown in the first year??? Right.

You're right in refusing to base the judgement of a vehicle on its tyres, b ut you can't dispute the D3 is over-complex - who needs an electronic parking brake which is so prone to failure when a simple lever is cheaper and easier to maintain? Wait for your suspension bushes to fail or for your clutch to need replacement (in the unlikely event you have a manual transmission) before you decide if the vehicle is well designed. Like I said, it's extremely capable and comfortable, but it is not reliable or designed with maintenance in mind. My local dealers (franchised and non-franchised) love the cars' abilities but hate working on them.