Diesel News: POST HERE
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
Like I said above, the diesel Cruze will cost more than $26K. The 2014 gas Cruze ECO with automatic MSRP is $5000 less, about $21K.
The Cruze is a sales success for Chevrolet. In June, people bought 32,000 Cruze models. That's second in passenger car sales only to Toyota Camry, which sold 34,000 units in June.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/usa-30-best-selling-vehicles-june-2013-sales-figures.html
The Cruze is a sales success for Chevrolet. In June, people bought 32,000 Cruze models. That's second in passenger car sales only to Toyota Camry, which sold 34,000 units in June.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/usa-30-best-selling-vehicles-june-2013-sales-figures.html
Clutch
<---Pass
Thanks Haven, sorry I missed the msrp earlier, I just kinda skim...
Looking like diesel isn't all that much better, maybe get one if you need gobs of torque.
Don't forget to add in the additional cost ($5000.00) of the vehicle at purchase, as well as higher (usually)/more frequent oil changes.
Here's what never made sense to me.
Our government "demands" higher CAFE standards, yet the manufacturers and oil companies, keep making it impractical for the most part to own them.
Right now, the only way I'd own a diesel powered "car", is if I could get a decent price on one, very close to the price of a gasser.
Until we the manufacturers decide to reduce the cost of the vehicles and the subsequent maintenance, and we finally catch on and decide to reduce the cost of diesel, it's going to continue to be difficult to justify the added cost of a diesel car.
If I have to tow heavy, I'll buy a truck.
I think you've overlooked the point that you can't get something for nothing.
Meeting the higher CAFE fuel economy requirements requires new investment in technology and production capacity. That means higher costs for producers; which will be partially passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices. For newer offerings, like diesels in the US, the cost differential will be higher initially until/unless volume grows enabling unit costs to decline.
But one way or another, meeting stricter CAFE standards will result in higher costs to the consumer. Diesel or gas, it doesn't matter.
R
Kaisen
Explorer
The 2014 Cruze ECO with Automatic starts at $21,855
The 2014 Cruze Diesel with Automatic starts at $25,710
So $3,855 more for the diesel, base price to base price (automatic)
But, for whatever reason, the Diesel comes standard with heated leather, power seat, remote start, and other items that are either extra cost on the ECO, or not available at any price. So it's impossible to make an apples to apples comparison. Maybe that's on purpose.
For the sake of comparison, the only other way to get heated leather in a Cruze is with LTZ trim that starts (base) at $24,530.
Then the Diesel is only $1180 more than the LTZ, and has an extra 100+ lb-ft torque.
The 2014 Cruze Diesel with Automatic starts at $25,710
So $3,855 more for the diesel, base price to base price (automatic)
But, for whatever reason, the Diesel comes standard with heated leather, power seat, remote start, and other items that are either extra cost on the ECO, or not available at any price. So it's impossible to make an apples to apples comparison. Maybe that's on purpose.
For the sake of comparison, the only other way to get heated leather in a Cruze is with LTZ trim that starts (base) at $24,530.
Then the Diesel is only $1180 more than the LTZ, and has an extra 100+ lb-ft torque.
I think you missed the premise of my post.
You're not getting "something for nothing."
You're paying a price no matter what.
If the diesel option is a grand or so more, fine.
$5k.....no thanks.
As for the luxuries such as heated seats, remote start, and power seats, I guess if you're in an environment that dictates such amenities, then the trade off may be worth it.
Here in the South, not so much so. The power seats, I can take or leave. It's just not that difficult to adjust a manual seat (lol).
And it's not the manufacturer that's imposing the somewhat unrealistic CAFE standards, it's our government.
The "powers that be" simply state "I want X mpg....", then leave it up to the mfg. to figure out how to accomplish that task
Not really fair IMO.
As for the cost of doing business, I certainly understand the need to recoup investment costs.
We all have to invest in infrastructure, be it technology, R&D, tooling, etc., in order to have our widgets, be they what they may, for consumption by the buying public.
That said, the reverse of that argument is, if you don't stay ahead of the game, or meet the requirements, you won't:
1) have a widget for sell;
2) be allowed to hawk your widgets at all.
In the end, you lose.
I'm sorry if in the end, the U.S. finds R&D that bad, but keeping up with the joneses is a ***** LOL.
The Japanese and Germans seem to have accomplished this some time back.
It's time we (the US) stepped up to the plate!
Kaisen
Explorer
You're paying more like $2K for the Diesel option in a similarly equipped Cruze. The fact that you can't get a lesser equipped Cruze is irrelevant to your point.
It's still less than a base VW Jetta TDI auto with a vinyl interior, it makes more power, it's rated 2mpg higher, and it has a much longer warranty.
The US companies have stepped up to the plate. They offer great diesels around the world, and have for decades.
If they don't bring them here to the US, what does that tell you?
That the R&D recoup is too high? Nope. They're long since covered with their sales in other countries, outside the US.
It's that Americans don't want diesels. It's really that simple.
Enthusiasts (like us) get all excited for them, but John Q Public doesn't buy enough of them overall to make a good business case.
CAFE motivates manufacturers to offer diesels, hybrids, electrics, and alternative fuel vehicles.
But they may not sell well enough to have made the initial gamble without the government carrot/stick.
The Germans and Japanese are no further ahead of the US manufacturers, they just have a little different mix of the global market to consider.
It's still less than a base VW Jetta TDI auto with a vinyl interior, it makes more power, it's rated 2mpg higher, and it has a much longer warranty.
The US companies have stepped up to the plate. They offer great diesels around the world, and have for decades.
If they don't bring them here to the US, what does that tell you?
That the R&D recoup is too high? Nope. They're long since covered with their sales in other countries, outside the US.
It's that Americans don't want diesels. It's really that simple.
Enthusiasts (like us) get all excited for them, but John Q Public doesn't buy enough of them overall to make a good business case.
CAFE motivates manufacturers to offer diesels, hybrids, electrics, and alternative fuel vehicles.
But they may not sell well enough to have made the initial gamble without the government carrot/stick.
The Germans and Japanese are no further ahead of the US manufacturers, they just have a little different mix of the global market to consider.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Jetta TDi > Chevy Cruze for SO many reasons (not the least of which is it's not a GM product)... It's literally THE BEST Road trip car available in the US. Period. Nothing offers it's combination of range and power in the real world. GM and ford LOVE to claim things about their hybrids and "Eco-Tec" stuff that seldom (if ever) actually get's proven to be accurate on the road. Partly that's due to the ridiculous way that hybrid mileage is allowed to be calculated for the mfr. claims, but it's also good old salesmanship and BS from typical sources. ow, if they'd do the intelligent thing and use a small disp. diesel as the combustion side of the hybrid DT (a diesel run at a constant "charging" speed would return FAR better fuel econ and it would also have WAY more torque when asked to haul the portly hybrids around under it's power) then hybrids might be able to challenge Diesels, but currently they can't.
"Americans don't want diesels"... Based on what??? Americans know what the talking idiot box TELLS THEM they want... MANY DO want diesels and the sales figure and aftermarket prices support this. VW has sold, and is often back-ordered for, EVERY SINGLE TDi Jetta/Golf (not sure about the Passat but I thin it may be the same) made for the US market in EVERY year they were offered, and Audi's A3 Diesel is one of their best selling models. Jeep sold every single one of it's Diesel equipped GC's (The KJ Diesel also sold out I believe)and they're STILL very highly sought after vehicles in the aftermarket. Same with BMW's Diesel X5's and 3-series cars. America also has a huge FS consumer/professional grade truck market that is predominantly Diesel powered or doesn't that count??? There's a "power war" on between the big three with their Diesel trucks that harkens back to the muscle car days of the past.
There are many reasons we're not seeing as many diesels here and we may be in the future with the rumors floating around about the big 3 moving to light duty diesls in their Pickups. It's a LITTLE more complex (read bureaucratic) then "Americans don't want them". What Americans don't want about Diesels is rooted in the 80's and a perception NONE of the US auto-suppliers (well maybe Jeep but that was all based on their Euro owners) and only a handful of Foreign auto-makers (VAG and BMW to name two) have done anything to fix it. It'd also cut into too much of their market for these Hybrids that they decided to back years ago.
"Americans don't want diesels"... Based on what??? Americans know what the talking idiot box TELLS THEM they want... MANY DO want diesels and the sales figure and aftermarket prices support this. VW has sold, and is often back-ordered for, EVERY SINGLE TDi Jetta/Golf (not sure about the Passat but I thin it may be the same) made for the US market in EVERY year they were offered, and Audi's A3 Diesel is one of their best selling models. Jeep sold every single one of it's Diesel equipped GC's (The KJ Diesel also sold out I believe)and they're STILL very highly sought after vehicles in the aftermarket. Same with BMW's Diesel X5's and 3-series cars. America also has a huge FS consumer/professional grade truck market that is predominantly Diesel powered or doesn't that count??? There's a "power war" on between the big three with their Diesel trucks that harkens back to the muscle car days of the past.
There are many reasons we're not seeing as many diesels here and we may be in the future with the rumors floating around about the big 3 moving to light duty diesls in their Pickups. It's a LITTLE more complex (read bureaucratic) then "Americans don't want them". What Americans don't want about Diesels is rooted in the 80's and a perception NONE of the US auto-suppliers (well maybe Jeep but that was all based on their Euro owners) and only a handful of Foreign auto-makers (VAG and BMW to name two) have done anything to fix it. It'd also cut into too much of their market for these Hybrids that they decided to back years ago.
Kaisen
Explorer
Really? You've driven a Cruze Diesel!?!? On paper the Cruze looks to hold its own. Until you've driven both back to back, I don't think your statement is anything but an uninformed (and biased, evidently) opinion.
tacr2man
Adventurer
diesel car sales passed gasoline in uk in mid 2010, but have been increasing year on year , and diesel is now about about 30c a gallon dearer than gas, but the engine premium is not massive. The mpg difference cant be a big factor , but its more a fashion thing hybrid /lpg etc are only on about 1%. So probably in US it will move when society is psychologically ready , as it didnt seem based on logic in UK .
doug720
Expedition Leader
It all equals out in the end...Costs of gasoline and diesel engines and fuel, are based on BTU content. The oil companies are not giving away the BTU's, so they have raised the prices of diesel to make up for the added fuel economy of these engines. Remember, diesel is a less refined fuel, and costs substantially less to make than gasoline. Car companies are using diesel engines to meet fuel economy standards, period, and don't really care what the fuel or maintenance costs are.
Diesels are great engines, but you are trading dollars unless you plan on keeping a diesel vehicle for a long time. Just hope it does not break as they are way more expensive to repair compared to a gasser!
I own 2 diesels and my wife in a financial annalist for a major oil company, so take it this for what you paid for it.
Doug
Diesels are great engines, but you are trading dollars unless you plan on keeping a diesel vehicle for a long time. Just hope it does not break as they are way more expensive to repair compared to a gasser!
I own 2 diesels and my wife in a financial annalist for a major oil company, so take it this for what you paid for it.
Doug
I'm sorry, but I just don't think that most people consider Chevrolet a "keep it a long time" car. It's sad but this will flop--just like Chevy's Volt is a flop-- primarily because people wouldn't consider a GM car no matter what is under the hood. And, plenty of people will use it to reinforce their ideas that diesels won't work in the US.
Kaisen
Explorer
I guess my ten year old gasoline powered Chevrolet with 250,000 miles (all original drivetrain) will be a "keep it a long time" car someday?
Volt is a flop? By what measure? The Volt outsells the Toyota Sequoia. Volt outsells the Toyota Land Cruiser. Volt outsells the Honda Ridgeline. Are they all flops?