Does 1k lbs make a difference?

[Humvee4us]

Say I have exactly the same vehicle for off road. In places like mud, sand, loose rocks, ect, how much of a difference does 1k lbs make? Say one car weighs 4k lbs and an identical one weighs 5k lbs, is the 4k lbs car going to have a significantly easier time off roading than the 5k lbs car?
I knkw that when it's something like a 2,500 lbs difference the result are very noticeable; the lighter vehicle may not even need 4x4 where the heavier one even needs to engage lockers not to get stuck, but 1k lbs how much difference does it make?

 

[Metcalf]

I know when I take any of my vehicles and strip out ALL the weight I can ( which depending on the vehicle can be 100 to 500lbs), it makes a noticeable difference in off-road performance. I think beyond how much weight you are removing, is where you are removing weight from as far as location front to rear or vertical height from the ground. I've repacked vehicles on the trail to move weight down and forward and noticed a big difference in performance ( at the same overall weight). I think there is a tipping point in a lot of terrain where if a 4wd vehicle starts to become rear weight biased, the performance starts to drop off pretty quick.

Contrary to how most people seem to be outfitting 'expedition' vehicles, the worst places for 'extra' weight are up high on a roof rack or behind the rear axle.

 

[Humvee4us]

I know when I take any of my vehicles and strip out ALL the weight I can ( which depending on the vehicle can be 100 to 500lbs), it makes a noticeable difference in off-road performance. I think beyond how much weight you are removing, is where you are removing weight from as far as location front to rear or vertical height from the ground. I've repacked vehicles on the trail to move weight down and forward and noticed a big difference in performance ( at the same overall weight). I think there is a tipping point in a lot of terrain where if a 4wd vehicle starts to become rear weight biased, the performance starts to drop off pretty quick.

Contrary to how most people seem to be outfitting 'expedition' vehicles, the worst places for 'extra' weight are up high on a roof rack or behind the rear axle.

What if the extra 1k lbs is at the engine bay?

 

[CampStewart]

What if the extra 1k lbs is at the engine bay?

Are you thinking about adding 1000lbs of ballast, or what?

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Assuming this is a serious question?, YES, 5k lbs is heavier than 4k lbs.

 

[Metcalf]

What if the extra 1k lbs is at the engine bay?

'Extra' weight is just that....extra. I think being lighter overall is always 'better' in most situations, but weight bias is important to keep in mind.

I would rather be slightly front heavy than rear heavy. With most normal 4wd vehicles, it is more difficult to maintain front bias than many people would think once you start adding people, gear, etc. It is VERY easy to end up with a pretty severe rear weight bias, especially when you consider that any weight behind the rear axle centerline also 'removes' weight from the front axle due to leverage.

For me, keeping any additional weight in a compact area also helps with vehicle dynamics. The same mass down low and central in the body will feel 10x better than having it up on a roof rack, even though the fore/aft position is the same.

 

[WOODY2]

Are you thinking about adding 1000lbs of ballast, or what?

Prolly a couple of group 31's,winch and a bumper? ha ha

 

[craig333]

It makes a difference depending on what you're starting with. 1k would be huge in my Jeep. Not so much in my truck. The cummins would barely notice it.

 

[Humvee4us]

The additional 1k would be for a larger engine.

 

[Metcalf]

The additional 1k would be for a larger engine.

Does the 'larger' engine make any more power?

And what percentage of the total vehicle weight is 1k more pounds?

 

[Humvee4us]

Does the 'larger' engine make any more power?

And what percentage of the total vehicle weight is 1k more pounds?

Yes, it makes more power. Weight is 3,900 without and 4,800 with bigger engine.

 

[Metcalf]

Yes, it makes more power. Weight is 3,900 without and 4,800 with bigger engine.

That is nearly a 25% increase in weight! Rarely does a heavier vehicle ever feel as 'good' as a lighter one even if the power to weight ratios are the same. I hope that new engine makes MUCH more power for that kind of weight penalty......and then all that extra power doesn't cause a cascade of issues further down the powertrain and drivetrain. Good luck with your project.

 

[Alloy]

Depending on where you go there are times times when extra weight helps dig through snow and will add traction on ice but it needs to be balanced front to back.

When unloaded the diesel engine in both my F350 and F450 have too much weight on the front.
- in deep snow the front will drop through snow but the back will high center.
- After a dry spell forestry roads will have 1/2"-3/4" mud/slime on them when it rains. I have to be careful where I park becuase the front end will slide sidways on the mud/slime before the back does.

Once the trucks are loaded the extra engine weight doesn't matter but the total GVWR does.

 

[Metcalf]

It comes to mind replacing a 115 HP 4 cylinder with a 400 HP V8 perhaps? In that scenario the power easily offsets the weight. There are drawbacks of course, frame has to be reinforced, suspension and drivetrain upgraded. There's not much argument that the vehicle is probably improved overall, though.

However, the question seems to be not to be weight or power specifically but performance, compromise and benefit. Better performance in this case might be achieved more suitably with lower gears instead of more power.

But the use may not be just crawling ultra slowly.

If the application requires ability to travel faster or carry some particular payload beyond what a small vehicle or engine even with very low gears can do then you have to choose sufficient power that can and build a truck capable of letting that engine do it.

A 20R Hilux pickup with low gears is very capable but can't go very fast on the highway, carry much weight or passengers. So a bigger engine might help. Or Land Cruisers and Unimogs and MANs exist if the task requires them.

A 1000lb difference in 'engine' weight is on the massive end. A lot of old 115hp 4-cylinder engines weigh just about as much as a modern V8. There might be a 100-200lb difference, but not half a ton.

More power doesn't always make everything 'better', in my opinion, if you mess up a bunch of other stuff. It might make it a bit more fun till you break something else, but adding 4x the power is going to require a ton of supporting modifications.

 

[Buddha.]

Even swapping from a small block to a Cummins doesn’t add a thousand pounds does it?
What kind of swap is this?