EarthCruiser Overland Vehicles

[1Engine]

Could someone dispel the gnawing doubt for me:


Dry weight: 4000kg
GVM: 4500kg
125 litres diesel = about 110kg
125 litres water = 125kg
This means kerb weight, ie. dry weight + fuel + water, but without driver and passenger = 4235kg

Which leaves the vehicle with the payload of just 265 kg before the GVM is reached.

Fitting the vehicle with an extra wheel carrier, wheel and tyre (~80kg ), bullbar (~100kg) and extra fuel tank (90 litres of fuel ~80kg, plus the weight of the tank) would take the vehicle over the GVM of 4500kg, making it illegal to drive on a car licence, and mandating the light rigid truck licence (LR) with all its added cost and embuggerance.

If I fitted just the extra fuel and water tanks of 90 litres each, that would take 180-190kg of the 265kg payload, and leave me with the vehicle payload of 75kg. The bad news is that I would then have to go on diet, and dramatically lose weight (about 40kg of it to be exact) in order to stay legal driving an Earth Cruiser on a car licence. The good news, I suppose, is that after losing 40kg body weight, I would still have to leave my dearly beloved wife at home, for impeccable legal reasons.

So, unfortunately, there goes my incentive to get an Earth Cruiser
Pity.

In the interest of fairness, the specs really should mention that only the base version without accessories or extra fuel/water on board can be legally driven on a car licence, and then preferably by slim people

I would be ****** off something rotten if I were to discover this aspect after outlaying $170k+ rather than before...

Which state are you planning to register it in:Mechanic:

 

[Mickldo]

Hi Mick,

Camper is steaming ahead. Getting close to needing some GRP skills to finish the top. Been sidetracked mounting additional stuff to the MOG chassis and deciding to go Solar with the Camper. Plus the welder has been in and out almost daily with all the little brackets that I just didn't factor in last year. One of those "no gain without pain" periods.

The concept for this Canter Camper is good. HD Chassis with a light payload and all the benefits you mentioned. The thread has probably gone off the rails with people jumping to the conclusion that the truck or manufacturer is in the sights when the issue is the way local GVM requirements in Australia are being interpreted by some in the second stage manufacture and after market. One of my pet peeves is allowing down rated trucks OR 20 - 30 Ft Caravans to be driven by anyone without a check on their competency / ability. You see some pretty scary things in those areas. Solution: an additional class on the car license for tow or light truck up to 4500Kg perhaps. It might happen one day if Government can see a Buck in it somewhere.

I'll drop you some pics in a month or two.

Cheers

Tony

Can't wait for the update, Tony.

I agree 100% with the extra class for towing. I wouldn't limit it to just big trailers though.

 

[Mickldo]

An excellent suggestion. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way of contacting the EarthCruiser people other than by leaving my full personal details on their website. and hoping they will get back to me. The website does not seem to contain, or at least I cannot find in it, the company's physical address, contact phone number or ABN. I am reluctant to give personal details in such circumstances. I can post my questions here, and just hope the EarthCruiser makers read this forum.

----------

G'day,

A few questions are being trashed out in a discussion going on at the http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16093
that would benefit from your kind input.

The EarthCruiser is built on FG84DC Mitsubishi Fuso Canter 4x4 cab light truck chassis. That chassis is complianced by the manufacturer up to the GVM of 6000kg.

You say that the Earth Cruiser is capable of being driven on a car licence. For this to be legal in Australia, the vehicle would need to be downrated to the GVM of 4500kg.

What does it say on the EarthCruiser's compliance plate(s)?
GVM 6000kg, or GVM 4500kg?

The potential problem is that if the plated GVM is 6000kg, then the vehicle cannot be driven on a car licence at all, and requires a LR truck licence at all times in Australia (I can't comment about overseas).

If the plated GVM is 4500kg, then the vehicle has a problem of very low legal payload. Your specs quote the unit dry weight, without accessories, at 4000kg. With 125kg of water (125kg) and 125 litres of diesel (~110kg) on board, the vehicle mass without driver and passenger will be 4235kg, so the legal payload will be just 265kg before the GVM of 4500kg is exceeded.

With a 120kg driver (sigh&#8230 and 70kg passenger on board, the vehicle mass will be 4425kg, leaving just 75kg for all the travel gear, which would just about disqualify the vehicle for its intended purpose: long range, all roads touring.

Given that there is very little payload left legally available when the standard fuel, water, driver and passenger are all aboard, it follows that there is no hope for the vehicle to legally carry accessories (extra fuel and water tanks, bull bar, winch, second spare wheel carrier, wheel and tyre) and remain within the GVM of 4500kg.

I am very impressed with the engineering shown in the photo galleries and described in the specs, and I have no doubt that the vehicle will happily take accessories and payload all the way up to the manufacturer's GVM of 6000kg (provided, of course, that the supplied modified suspension components, wheels and tyres are appropriately load rated and certified accordingly).

However, my concern is legality. With the unit cost in the order of $180k+, I am not inclined to make assumptions only to be possibly proven wrong by a roadside RTA inspector, or worse, to be potentially found an unlicensed driver after an accident. Please note that in all of the above I am not in the slightest critical of the vehicle concept or execution, both of which look excellent. I just need to know whether I need to pay a truck driving school to bring me up to LR licence, and (more difficult) whether I need to persuade my dearly beloved to do the same. Neither is impossible, but I need to know this well before I start doing my sums.

Your comment would be much appreciated.

I quote on and build custom boats and custom trucks and trailers at my work. I'd sit down with the builders and discuss your needs with them.

Usually we weigh our trucks full of fuel and water so the payload is easier to work out. Maybe they do the same. That would save you a couple of hundred kilos straight up.

They may also be able to offer some different options to allow you to have lighter Tare. I think it is also funny that the Tare is "exactly" 4000kg I'd say that they might have rounded it up a bit to cover all of their options.

I'd try and talk to some previous customers and find out what theirs weigh in touring trim. If you can't get any answers from Earth Cruiser or talk to any customers I'd suggest trying somewhere else. There are other (better, IMHO) off road camper manufacturers out there.

*EDIT* I see on the website that it does say DRY weight rather than tare but I reckon it would have been a ***** to drain all the fuel from the tanks on the public weighbridge while all the trucks are honking their horns in the line up behind them. So there must have been some fuel in it for the test. All the more reason to request to see a weighbridge docket.

 

[haven]

Landy2010 wrote "I am reluctant to give personal details..." What, like your name and an an email address?

Anyway, to preserve Landy2010's anonymity, I wrote to the folks who build the EarthCruiser. They responded that the weight of the vehicle as delivered, including half a tank of fuel but no water, is 3950 kg. Using the formulas provided by Australia DOT for driver, passenger, personal gear, full fuel and water, EarthCruiser is completely legal to be registered as an under-4500 kg vehicle.

So why keep vehicle weight under 4500 kg? To renew the registration, heavy vehicles (over 4500 kg) have to pass a mechanic's inspection every 12 months in the state where the registration is issued. That's inconvenient when you're traveling on the other side of Australia, and impossible when you're on a different continent. Light vehicles (under 4500 kg) don't have to be inspected for the registration to be renewed.

The folks at EarthCruiser went on to say that their vehicles are in compliance with the highest standards of safety, and meet all applicable Australian Design Rules. Their facility is licensed as a secondary manufacturer by Australia DOT. Their vehicles are inspected by their staff and by an independent engineer before final approval by DOT, which issues a new VIN for the modified vehicle. EarthCruiser vehicles can be registered in any state in Australia.

Chip Haven

 

[Amesz00]

So why keep vehicle weight under 4500 kg? To renew the registration, heavy vehicles (over 4500 kg) have to pass a mechanic's inspection every 12 months in the state where the registration is issued. That's inconvenient when you're traveling on the other side of Australia, and impossible when you're on a different continent. Light vehicles (under 4500 kg) don't have to be inspected for the registration to be renewed.

The problem with Australia is that all the states have different rules. where earthcruiser is built, in queensland, this is compulsory. also in new south wales. but in western Australia, where i am, only buses and people carrying vehicles have to be annually inspected. cars and trucks dont, nor do RVs.

Using the formulas provided by Australia DOT for driver, passenger, personal gear, full fuel and water, EarthCruiser is completely legal to be registered as an under-4500 kg vehicle.

I talked to my dad about this, he thinks that for an serious off-road vehicle that 500kg is quite on the short side, when you add all the estimated weights up. The ADR's (Australian Design Rules) for this do not cover any kind of tools or recovery equipment, and only very basic personal gear, not really counting for food, cooking gear, etc as well.

 

[landy2010]

Landy2010 wrote "I am reluctant to give personal details..." What, like your name and an an email address?

Anyway, to preserve Landy2010's anonymity, I wrote to the folks who build the EarthCruiser. They responded that the weight of the vehicle as delivered, including half a tank of fuel but no water, is 3950 kg. Using the formulas provided by Australia DOT for driver, passenger, personal gear, full fuel and water, EarthCruiser is completely legal to be registered as an under-4500 kg vehicle.

So why keep vehicle weight under 4500 kg? To renew the registration, heavy vehicles (over 4500 kg) have to pass a mechanic's inspection every 12 months in the state where the registration is issued. That's inconvenient when you're traveling on the other side of Australia, and impossible when you're on a different continent. Light vehicles (under 4500 kg) don't have to be inspected for the registration to be renewed.

The folks at EarthCruiser went on to say that their vehicles are in compliance with the highest standards of safety, and meet all applicable Australian Design Rules. Their facility is licensed as a secondary manufacturer by Australia DOT. Their vehicles are inspected by their staff and by an independent engineer before final approval by DOT, which issues a new VIN for the modified vehicle. EarthCruiser vehicles can be registered in any state in Australia.

Chip Haven

Haven, nothing personal, but you seem offended by the fact that some people like anonymity online? I am politely seeking experienced people's opinions before deciding to commit, or not commit, a significant amount of money. This rig is not exactly cheap, and I am not in the super-wealthy league. I do not quite see why you should be getting upset.

OK, you wrote to the makers, and

"They responded that the weight of the vehicle as delivered, including half a tank of fuel but no water, is 3950 kg. Using the formulas provided by Australia DOT for driver, passenger, personal gear, full fuel and water, EarthCruiser is completely legal to be registered as an under-4500 kg vehicle."

I am sure it is completely legal to register as an under-4500kg vehicle if you show up to the motor registry weighbridge empty, without major accessories fitted, and with half a tank of fuel.

Vehicle as delivered, ie. with one 125l fuel tank and one 90l water tank.
No bullbar, no winch, one spare wheel carrier, wheel and tyre, right?

Now add to the given weight of 3950kg:

- The other half a tank of diesel ~55kg
- Full tank of water 90kg
- Driver 120kg
(Note: I do not care how "Australia DOT" calculates the driver weight.
Regrettable though it may be, I am what I am, a 120kg, 6'4" male)

- Passenger 70kg

(Incidentally, what is "Australia DOT"? The relevant Australian Feds are called the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, quite a mouthful; their rules are as convoluted as their name.)

3950+55+90+120+70 = 4285kg.

So I now have 215kg to play with before reaching the 4500kg that I am licensed for, and the truck is registered for.

If I add 90 litres extra diesel, 90 litres extra water, weight of the extra fuel/water tanks, bull bar, winch, second spare wheel carrier, spare wheel and tyre, then by the time I am done, the actual weight of the vehicle is well over 5000kg, and I am driving a GVM 4500kg truck that is legally registered, but illegally overloaded.

For insurance purposes driving overloaded has the same effect as driving unlicensed, drunk or unroadworthy. I will not be able to say I have inadvertently and unintentionally overloaded the vehicle, because the overload would be the result of my fitting of accessories above the registered GVM. That makes my policy null and void.

I well understand the well-intentioned swifty at play here, done to avoid the annual inspection of vehicles over 4500kg. But I cannot quite wrap my head around the idea of buying a truck, registering it as sub-4500kg, and then adding accessories until the actual ready-to-go weight is well over 5000kg. Insurance assessors might not be the sharpest tools in the box, but they are not going to fall for this one.

I have done all sorts of crazy car/truck things in my 20's, but now I am in my 50's and more risk averse.The prospect of potentially doing in my $180k because of a registered GVM vs. actual GVM dispute with the insurers is kind of unappealing. No offence, and the best of luck to the good people making the EarthCruiser, but this unfortunately scratches it from my shortlist.

My profuse thanks to all who kindly assisted with my thinking process.

 

[haven]

"what is Australia DOT?"

It's the Australia Department of Transport, the folks who set the rules for vehicle registration.

 

[haven]

The take-home message in this exchange about cargo capacity is, simply, to think about the weight of your passengers, gear and supplies before you choose a vehicle. That's exactly what landy2010 is trying to do.

If you expect you'll need to travel with 1000 kg of people and stuff, and the vehicle is rated to carry 550 kg, then you have two choices. Either look elsewhere for a vehicle, or talk with the builders about uprating your vehicle's running gear to provide the capacity you need.

Chip Haven

 

[1Engine]

When you go across a weigh bridge the driver does not need to be included.
When you are pulled up to be weighed the driver has the option to alight the truck / bus however passengers are to remain onboard

 

[Bandicoot]

Weight of EarthCruiser

I picked up what is the first commercially-sold "Earthcruiser" (EC4) last Friday and have spent the past week driving across to Perth, where I'll be for the next couple of weeks, before returning to Brisbane hopefully via the Anne Beadell and a few other exotic tracks.
I have been looking for a public weighbridge going right across Australia but, alas, none seem open when I go past!
My understanding is that the tare (without fuel or fresh water in tanks) for the EC is 3900 kg. The standard fuel tank is 125 litres (say 100 kg) and standard water tank 100 litres (100 kg). Add in 20 kg for the Thetford toilet tanks. I've deliberately not taken the winch or 2nd spare wheel options, but have taken up the alloy bullbar and alloy scrub bar/rack, as well as the 2nd water and fuel tanks. These are plastic. I don't know just how much an alloy bullbar and scrub bar, and 100 litres plastic water and fuel tank would weigh, but perhaps not much more than 100 kg.
That takes the total to 3900+100+100+20+100 = 4220 kg.
I weigh in at 75 kg and the missus at 70 kg = 4365 kg.
That leaves 135 kg for clothes, food, couple of chairs and an outside table etc.
I agree things are tight, but not impossibly so.
In terms of some of the other points:
• Insurance companies won’t automatically disallow a claim if you are overweight. They will only do this if it contributed to the accident (so my insurance policy tells me specifically in writing). If you’re overweight and someone runs up your rear at the lights, what has being “overweight” got to do with the accident?
• Filling up the extra fuel and water tanks (which would take the GVM to over 4500 kg, perhaps 4700 kg or about 4% “overloaded”. However, these two extra tanks are specifically sold as being for “off-road purposes only”. Given the EC is a passenger car (in Australia), there would be HEAPS of 4x4s that are also technically overloaded (in fact, most expedition 4x4s), so you would be in common company there. I did the Canning stock route a few years back and the other 3 vehicles with me (all with camper trailers) were all grossly overloaded according to their GVMs, but so were probably most of the other vehicles we came across.
• If you were pulled up and were weighed and found to be driving 4700 kg on a standard car licence (4500 kg), you are STILL driving with the correct (legal) licence for that vehicle—it’s just the vehicle that is overloaded. This is not a police matter at all.
PS: The base Canter used for the EC build is sold in its 4500 kg format; it’s exactly the same Fuso Canter FG as the 6 tonne GVM, just with a 4500 kg compliance plate. My EC has got a new “green plate” as part of its 2nd stage manufacturing process which means it is automatically registrable in ALL Australian states and, once registered, always will be even if I move interstate and it needs to then be re-registered in (say) 10 years time in a different state.
Bandicoot

 

[ozzyfishaman]

Well Bandicoot, I have been through this scenario many times with many different vehicles, what you are saying is the vehicle you have purchased started life as a 6 ton GVM capable chassis and you took the soft option of downgrading to a lesser GVM of 4.5 ton so that you didn’t incur the hassles of having a light truck licence.
The fact is, even though the vehicle will carry an increased load safely, if you knowingly overload your vehicle and have an accident that is your fault you are in the Sh---.
The insurance company will use EVERY avenue open to them to refuse you coverage.
That is why when I purchased my new Isuzu NPS I licensed it at 6 ton because I knew that no way I could legally get away with the few Kilos overweight I would have gone over my Licensed Registration if I had gone the 4500 route.

Ozzyfishaman

 

[1Engine]

Hi Bandicoot,
If you go to most rubbish tips have weighbridges & as they charge by weight they need to be weights & measures certified however they cannot give a weighbridge certificate as they are not a public bridge.

The police only act on behalf of the transport authority & are given their powers under the appropriate acts. eg. Qldtrans, RTA etc.

If I was having a motorhome in Qld registered I would go 6 tonne as the rego + ctp cost is the same as a a 4495kg & being under 8 tonne GVM you are not required to go across a weighbridge

 

[gait]

thanks for all the posts Bandicoot. If I ever get round to posting photos and description of my own Canter build the logic is remarkably similar to yours. Obvious exception is that the practical avenue for my diy is (Qld) state based engineering certification with design that can be certified in any state rather than federal SSM. A quick summary is "diesel, water, sunshine and food in - black water, grey water, exhaust fumes and food packaging out".

 

[Bandicoot]

ozzyfishaman
Many if not most 4x4s going scrub in Australia will be over their GVM and I'm not aware of a single time when an insurance company has denied a claim. This has been thoroughly discussed on other forums and no-one has ever come up with an example.
Having said that, my main concern is the safety of my family and others (the public). EC4 is "capable" up to 6 tonnes so from a safety point of view I'm not concerned if I was sitting at 4.6 or 4.7 t (or even 5 t which I think is most unlikely for us). BUT I've also gone to some trouble to make sure I can stay under the 4.5 tonnes which is one reason I haven't taken on the front winch or 2nd spare wheel and carrier.
I'd point out that staying "light" is not just to stay under the 4.5 t legal or even safety limit, but also to have an "underloaded" vehicle which should mean more reliability. I've been up Cape York 7 times (dating back to 1981), 4 times across the Simpson desert, up the Canning, driven up to the Arctic circle and numerous other trips, and heavily loaded vehicles (esp over their GVM) is no doubt the single biggest reason for breakdowns.
I'm very hard on gear lists. If I don't use something in a year or so, then unless it's some item of critical equipment or critical spare, it just gets the flick from future trips! My wife and I travel on remarkably little gear and never seem to go without.
Getting a light rigid licence is not really the main issue. However, there are, as far as I know, a number of other advantages of staying below 4.5 t GVM (correct me if I'm wrong on these):
• Lower registration costs
• Can drive on ordinary licence (but only here in Oz). This is handy for the wife and anyone else that might need to drive the vehicle (e.g. if I was sick or injured)
• Does not need an annual vehicle inspection
• Not required to pull into weigh stations etc
• Not targeted in the "camera" systems for fatigue management, e.g. in NSW

I noted on this forum (or perhaps another) that people taking vehicles overseas have had to resort to "forging" their annual registration renewal in their country of origin, as their border papers for entering overseas countries require them to produce a valid current registration in their home country, but if you have to present the vehicle for an inspection in your home country at renewal time....well how can you do that when the vehicle is overseas?
Bandicoot

 

[Bandicoot]

OK, I see 1Engine has already corrected me on two points!
Bandicoot