Electric motor assist

Mr. Leary

Glamping Excursionaire
So a couple of us have been thinking about the possability of letting the trailer "pull its own weight" so to speak.

The original ideawas to use a front suspension assembly from a 3rd gen 4Runner for the rear of a camping trailer. For me, that would mean independent suspension and spare parts for the truck if I break something up front. Upon re-examination, using a rear axle would make the system more survivable. You can get a lot more places with just the rear wheels pushing than the front ones. Anyways, that is how the rear axle assembly instead of a standard trailer axle came about.

So you install the rear axle, with OEM suspension components, etc. for spares and whatnot. You machine a flange that will carry a v belt onto the yoke, and connect a driveshaft onto the other end. Hook the v-belt up to an alternator or two, and a bank of batteries can be charged while going down the road. Problems with excessive rotation of the yoke can be addressed by changing the size of the flange, all calculated in advance.

The driveshaft would be hooked up to an electric motor that can be engaged in tougher spots and controlled by a pulse actuator, similar to how an electric brake controller works. Add an auto locker to the axle and it will be able to fully differentiate unless you need it locked in the tough stuff.

This is one idea of how to attempt a "hill billy PTO."

Any ideas / information / critiques / advice?

This is the thread! :sombrero:
 

Piet

Adventurer
This has been done before...

Read up on the Gama Goat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gama_Goat Not only was it 6 wheel drive... it was amphibious.

800px-M561_Gama_Goat.JPEG


Watch an episode on Stacey David's website http://www.staceydavid.com/showdetails.php?episode=42

HIGHLY MODIFIED GAMA GOAT... VERY COOL​
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IOV3HKr_tE"]YouTube - Modified Amphibious Gama Goat[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Gq0Kvtxlk"]YouTube - Gama Goat leaving the West Side[/ame]
 
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Mr. Leary

Glamping Excursionaire
Gama Goat used an electric motor?

I'm sure its also been done with a duece and a half using a mechanical PTO after swapping another middle axle in for the rear one. A driveshaft running to the trailer axle would be about impossible on most trucks.
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
The best solution is to have the electric motors in the hubs, see hub motors here. They have already built a Mini using the same system, 0-60 in 4 seconds.

If you use hub motors there is no axle weight and the inefficiency of the drive train is eliminated. The drive hubs can be turned on and off with the flick of a switch. Power could come from a battery with a direct recharge from the alternator.
 

Mr. Leary

Glamping Excursionaire
The best solution is to have the electric motors in the hubs, see hub motors here. They have already built a Mini using the same system, 0-60 in 4 seconds.

If you use hub motors there is no axle weight and the inefficiency of the drive train is eliminated. The drive hubs can be turned on and off with the flick of a switch. Power could come from a battery with a direct recharge from the alternator.

That site give me a lot of ideas. I'm still wondering how the electric hubs would hold up to submersion... they say water "resistant" :p. I really like the idea of a regenerative brake controller as well.
I suppose I could still use it to turn a driveshaft connected to the axles, that way I could benefit from mechanical advantage, just worried that the motor would be spinning too fast that way. I'll have to call them. Gotta get that voltage up as well. Specs say optimal voltage is 48V.

Thanks a lot Martyn. I owe you a brew next time I see you! :)

EDIT: I suppose I could use an electro magnet on a toggle switch to connect or disconnect the driveshaft to the axle (if I go that route and not hub motors). Another one of my crazy ideas was to use an electro magnet to disengage a set of gears for a sway bar... hence a sway bar disconnect that could be linked to the speed sensor... functionally very similar to the way Crysler has their setup in the Power Wagons and Rubicons.

I could disengage the whole aparatus and allow my axle to free wheel while charging the alternator when travelling on the highway.

Kinda thinking out loud here!
 
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ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
The now long gone sofcom.com page had an article on a military truck (Dutch, I think) with a PTO driven trailer. The tow hitch was a very clever lay-out, but I don't recall the details well enough to even give a rough sketch.

There was an electric assist trailer taken over the Rubicon some years ago. Memory has it that they used starter motors that engaged a ring gear bolted to the wheel hubs in place of brake drums. That could be exactly wrong, but is roughly the lay-out.

I don't know what state of the art is now for hub motors. At one time they were the holy grail, but had yet to live up to their promise. Most then needed some sort of gear reduction which in the EV world was frowned on for it's lack of efficiency (parasitic losses).
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Two PTO driven trailers have been made for the military. There was a British prototype that never went into production and is now at the British Motor Museum, and a Swedish Military trailer that went into limited production. FotoValpen has a Swedish model he rebuilt and posted up on.

The complexity is in the coupling to the tow vehicle and the method of engaging the drive to the trailer drive train. Both the military trailers use a vacuum system from the tow vehicle to engage the trailer drive.
 

womacje

Adventurer
I was thinking about the trailer brake hub being used as a generator as well. I love the idea, seems that it wouldn't be too parasitic on efficiency/mileage but should charge your trailer batt's quite nicely.
 

ert01

Adventurer
I have been trying to come up with a good way to couple a junkyard alternator to my trailer brake drum for a long time now... it would be awesome to have my trailer charge its own batteries when I'm on the road/trail but I have yet to come up with a good way to couple a standard alternator to the brake drum. It would be easy if I used a truck axle and used the yoke to spin the alternator/s but thats a LOT of extra weight and you lose ground clearance in the middle for the differential and I like my electric brakes... If someone could make me a drum for my brakes on my 3500lb axle that would allow me to bolt a small alternator on top of the axle tube, then I would be a very happy man :)
 

Mattm94

Observer
My grandfather told me several times about PTO driven trailers he encountered in Europe during WWII. Never gave many details other than the trailers pushed like hell but they still got stuck...

I think the hub motor idea is the best one... They've been used with success in the mining industry. Several large haul trucks have used an electric drivetrain. Battery bank, wheel motors, heat grid. Batteries power the wheel motors with throttle. Dynamic braking reverses polarity on the wheel motors and charges the batteries... with a heat grid to ditch any extra juice. A little more complicated than that, but you get the idea.
 
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