Excursion vs. (???) for family expeditions?

[koselig]

Hi all!

It's so awesome to read through this forum. I hope I can start contributing. We (my wife and I and our 4 kids aged 4/6/9/10) live on a remote spot in the forest 10mi inland from Lake Superior on Northern MN. To get to our cabin we are on gravel for 7mi and up our adventurous 1300ft driveway.

Our current vehicle stable consists of:
* 2005 VW Golf TDI (which obviously long predated any thoughts of living in such an untamed place! Still great car though for long distances)
* 2011 Volvo XC90 (say what you will, it's one of my favorite cars ever)
* 1994 Toyota plow truck (came with the place, absolutely priceless. runs always no matter the temp, chains on all 4 tires, just awesome)
* 1999 F350 7.3 CCLB with 37" BFG and 6" lift
* 2015 Lance 2185 travel trailer (great camper, we slept in it in my folks' driveway over Christmas in below 0 temps)

I bought the F350 before we moved up here just so we'd have something that could get into town in an emergency no matter what. I love the truck. But it is HUGE! I'm not ashamed to say I'm intimidated by driving it. I am feeling like something a bit tamer might actually serve the snow/ice/hills better and be easier to maneuver. The other purpose of the truck is to haul building materials (part of the reason we are here is to add buildings and make changes over time to suit our various interests - just built a 30x40 workshop with a 12' lean-to off one side for the camper) and generally to be a work truck for us. As a parallel 'thread' I'm looking for advice on fitting the truck a little better to our environment - remove the lift, go to a shorter tire, start the search all over again and look for a 7.3 CCSB (CC is so we can all fit, but the wheelbase is crazy)?

Enter the Lance camper - we bought it with the idea that we'd be at the homestead part-time and on the road the rest of the time (we homeschool and I operate a business I own). Obviously the F350 can tow the trailer, I drove it to ID to pick it up. At just right around 5000lb it doesn't mind it one bit. But that wasn't really the reason we bought the truck. I purposefully looked for the best deal I could find on a 7.3, without thinking of what we might like for a travel rig (comfort, space for everyone plus cargo, etc.). Which brings me to my question.

I have been thinking a 7.3 Excursion would be the ideal vehicle to pull the camper and haul the 6 of us on our trips to the national parks, to visit family, etc. But the nice ones I have found with seats in good condition, 2nd row buckets, and less than 150kmi are awfully expensive - $20-30k from what I can see. This has me thinking if there is an alternative I haven't considered. For some reason I really dislike Expeditions, but would a few year old Expedition with the 3rd row seat actually be better for our purposes?

What would you do? Hold out for a deal on a 7.3, compromise and find a 2005 with the 6.0 that has been bulletproofed (the ones I found are still expensive...), or compromise even further and get a 2005 with a V10 (seems like these get horrible mileage when towing)?

Alternately, get something else altogether? I've been all over the place, for example the 100-series Land Cruiser but apparently they also get terrible mileage when towing?

Surely there's something I'm missing in all of this, and I bet you folks can set me straight. The idea with the Excursion was that we'd have two vehicles with the same engine but maybe that's silly. Maybe the truck would become redundant if we buy the right vehicle??

I'll add some pictures of our cabin homestead and the vehicles too if you're curious.

 

[calicamper]

Or just keep it simple get a stock Suburban. My neighbor has the sought after 7.3 Excursion. It had lots of work done to keep it going. Its loud as hell and big.

The Suburban would be a nice compromise. Very smooth ride, no diesel drama or cold temps gelling worries. 2500 would tow the Trailer easy. Think of it as your 3row car and it sounds like you kinda want a car ish option.

 

[Matt_]

Or do the combination and get a duraburb (Duramax converted Suburban 2500). There's a few turnkey operations that always have some for sale.

 

[Bayou Boy]

My wife went from a Suburban to an Expedition. Unless you get the EL long model there is virtually zero cargo room behind the third row seat. The expedition is significantly more comfortable than the Suburban or Expedition due to the IRS and the third row is enormous and comfy for adults. Be careful which particular model you buy as some of them had pretty low tow rating due to the axle ratio.

 

[upcruiser]

If towing is a primary concern go with the Suburban 2500, they are the best towing SUV out there. The tow and payload ratings are better than the Excursion and they ride great when towing. The 100 series Land Cruiser is too small for a family of 6 if traveling any distance and needing to haul gear inside, not to mention they just aren't built for towing. I went through this same exercise a few years back considering all the options. We were going to hit the road with our 23ft travel trailer while my wife travel nursed. It took me awhile but I found a really nice 2004 2500 with 4.10's. thing works great. That said my mileage isn't all that better than the 8.1 and that is referred to as the holy grail of gasser tow engines. I considered Excursions too but didn't care for the ride, at least on stock suspension. An 8.1 Burb with 4.10's is rated to tow 12,000 so that gives you a healthy cushion to work with. Greetings from south shore of Superior!

 

[Buliwyf]

Stick with the F350. It seats 6 just fine. Smallest person in the front center jump seat. And how often are all 6 inside it? You could always bring one of the extra cars on long trips.

The lack of a bed eats cargo capacity in the 'burbs fast. I'd recommend saving the money and finding a solution with what you have, which seems like plenty.

 

[RPhil]

Your options look to be 2500 Suburban or Excursion, in my opinion, unless you decide to stick with a crew cab and utilize 3 across the front and second rows.

The Excursion's V10 doesn't get the best mileage and they were offered with 3.73 and 4.30 gears. For towing heavy, you will want 4.30's. The V10 needs to rev for its power, unlike a diesel. That being said, they are great engines that have been around for a long, long time. Replace plugs and boots and have them properly torqued, as the biggest issue with the V10 design during the Excursion era was plugs spitting out of the head due to limited thread engagement coupled with under-torquing. My best mileage ever was 14.2 in my Excursion on ~34's with 4.30's. This was on cruise control at reasonable speed between Baltimore and Philadelphia and back (not towing anything). I am more used to 10-11 in mixed driving (11-12 for longer trips). The 44 gallon gas tank is great.

Depending on your budget, I would recommend a bulletproof'ed 6.0 for your use. The 6.0 will also get you the more reliable 5R110 transmission (as opposed to the 4R100). It checks all of the boxes for you.

I would also have you consider sticking to a bench second row, especially if you're getting rid of the pickup. The fold flat floors in the second row are hugely convenient. The second row buckets really narrow your search down by a considerable margin. I also thought I wanted buckets, but am very glad I found an example with the bench. I wouldn't constrain yourself to 2005, either. 2005 was the last MY for the Excursion and the major difference is the face-lifted front end. If this is what you're after, you can replicate this easily and cheaply in the aftermarket.

Swap in super duty springs onto the Excursion as it makes a night and day difference (they are a direct swap, obviously, and readily available online new or used) for drive-ability and towing. Pair them with decent shocks and your suspension will be just fine for your needs. Ford-trucks forum is a phenomenal resource that has answers to any question you may have about these trucks.

I can't speak to the details on the Suburban as I am not as familiar with them.


As an aside, your cabin is beautiful and I wish I had one myself.

 

[Big50]

Given what your considering, I'd keep the 350 and just put a topper on it. Maybe invest in some progressive springs and better shocks. Would make the ride much comfier and you'd have plenty of cargo room with the topper. Excursion is going to be just about as big so I don't see the reason to move over to one other than if you really want more than seating for 6.

Good luck!

 

[rayra]

Seconded, keep the F350 and put a shell on it. You already have what you need. Expedition / Suburban would be essentially the same overall size.

 

[MTCK]

Not sure your budget but a 9 pax burb would give room to run just the front two rows, or add friends using all three. Not sure your annual mileage either as a gas burb would use more fuel, but I like having a 50k mile rig more than a 150k mile rig. 6L90 is a good trans and has very deep low gears to get loads moving. We have the 6.0 gas six speed combo in lots of work trucks and it works well.

http://www.affordableusedcarsfairbanks.com/autos.php?te_mode=view&te_key=19762

 

[TexomaPowerboater]

In my opinion the V10 is the better choice over 7.3. Those 7.3's are god awful noisy and smelly, you couldn't pay me to drive one.

A 4x4 Van would do everything your looking to do and then some. I really don't think anybody is actually buying used excursions for $20-30K, down here in TX the owners looking to sell are priced closer to $10K. Don't think any crew cab truck is ideal for road trips with 6 people. Sure they will fit, but you want kido's to enjoy road trips, not moan about them and end up fighting most of the way. I sold my 4x4 conversion van and now my crew cab truck is the daily driver and road trip vehicle. That was about a month ago and my three young kids are already trying to talk me into getting another van. I miss it too, just not in the cards right now financially. If you can afford it and you have lot's of kids, a van is the way to go.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

We regularly tow a large boat with our Yukon XL 2500 and love it, we only have the 6.0 small block and average 11mpg(16 mpg not towing) with lots of "hills" between us and the lakes. If you can find a Burb/Yukon with the 8.1 jump on it, they tow well and are very comfortable.

 

[twodollars]

I got tired of the compromise of using my suburban as a pickup, or having to haul a trailer. It's a 94 k2500, new 6.5 and 4l85, so it tow's great and can haul a bit of cargo. But for dirty loads or plain working usefulness I was really missing a pickup. Ended up with a pickup for thedirty work. When we travel as a family everyone wants to take the burb, even though it's getting long in the tooth. My point is if I was getting tired of the compromises of using one vehicle for all my needs. I do have to take care of two older trucks, but I like the flexibility it offers.

 

[koselig]

Thanks all for the thoughtful suggestions.

Suburban/Yukon XL 2500: I hadn't even heard of these! I showed some to my wife and she likes them too. The problem is I know very little about that platform as I come from a "Ford family" so I don't feel well equipped to properly sniff out a good deal.

Expedition: I don't feel like an older one of these would be a good buy. And the newer ones are shockingly expensive. The latest one only has the ecoboost, which I know very little about, but I'd be surprised if that could really handle the 9000lb towing capacity it claims to. I'm not yet 40 and I feel like a man from another era looking at what these new vehicles cost, it astounds me. I am sure a 2013-2015 or so has the potential of being a much nicer ride but they just don't seem to be built for towing or really anything but hauling a family with 2.5 kids back and forth. Maybe I'm wrong.

7.3: I really don't mind that engine in our truck and I drove it through 10 states in 2 weeks for thousands of miles, half of the trip towing our trailer. It never ceases to impress me how well that truck drives, not at all like the CCLB 37" monstrosity it is. So I wouldn't mind at all finding a nice Excursion with the same mill.

Here's what appears to be a decent 6.0 we came across not far from us. I don't like buying from dealers but we don't have a lot to choose from unless I'm willing to travel and take a chance on something down South again. I am assuming it has had none of the bulletproofing done, otherwise I'd figure they'd mention it.

As for using our F350 with a shell on the back, we considered that but my wife really wants to make sure the kids all have their spots because we are planning on being on the road a lot. I really don't think we'll part with the truck, either, as I am in the process of a lot of building projects and kitting up our workshop so I imagine it will be handy to have a go-anywhere truck for such things. It does have new RS9000XL shocks which definitely helped and I haven't fiddled with adjusting them yet. It's a great truck I went a long way to acquire, and we own it outright, so it'd be silly to part with it.

If towing is a primary concern go with the Suburban 2500, they are the best towing SUV out there. The tow and payload ratings are better than the Excursion and they ride great when towing. The 100 series Land Cruiser is too small for a family of 6 if traveling any distance and needing to haul gear inside, not to mention they just aren't built for towing. I went through this same exercise a few years back considering all the options. We were going to hit the road with our 23ft travel trailer while my wife travel nursed. It took me awhile but I found a really nice 2004 2500 with 4.10's. thing works great. That said my mileage isn't all that better than the 8.1 and that is referred to as the holy grail of gasser tow engines. I considered Excursions too but didn't care for the ride, at least on stock suspension. An 8.1 Burb with 4.10's is rated to tow 12,000 so that gives you a healthy cushion to work with. Greetings from south shore of Superior!

Thanks! Your rig looks great too. We'll definitely be through your way at some point.

Depending on your budget, I would recommend a bulletproof'ed 6.0 for your use. The 6.0 will also get you the more reliable 5R110 transmission (as opposed to the 4R100). It checks all of the boxes for you.

I would also have you consider sticking to a bench second row, especially if you're getting rid of the pickup. The fold flat floors in the second row are hugely convenient. The second row buckets really narrow your search down by a considerable margin. I also thought I wanted buckets, but am very glad I found an example with the bench. I wouldn't constrain yourself to 2005, either. 2005 was the last MY for the Excursion and the major difference is the face-lifted front end. If this is what you're after, you can replicate this easily and cheaply in the aftermarket.

Swap in super duty springs onto the Excursion as it makes a night and day difference (they are a direct swap, obviously, and readily available online new or used) for drive-ability and towing. Pair them with decent shocks and your suspension will be just fine for your needs. Ford-trucks forum is a phenomenal resource that has answers to any question you may have about these trucks.

Should I assume if it's got a 6.0 that it's the 5R110?

my wife is insistent on the buckets. It has a "van" feel and since we have 4 kids it will be so much easier for them to get back to the 3rd row.

As an aside, your cabin is beautiful and I wish I had one myself.

thank you!!

 

[upcruiser]

The Burbs are pretty cool. That said, we have kept ours pretty stock for daily driving, towing, and two track type stuff and full disclosure use an 80 series Land Cruiser for more of our get into the nasty stuff vehicle. Not that the Burb couldn't do it, there are some good suspension options like Cognito that can address most needs and is well engineered but we have tried to maintain ours as the family travel rig and therefore have kept it to 33's and flexible with what we use it for. If you want diesel the Ford is your only option. The live axles will probably be better for more technical stuff with less work and money. I just find the ride with that wheel base pretty rough stuck on those. And the diesel Excursion's payload/towing was pretty low for its size and power train.

If you get over this way shoot me a line. I started and used to run UP Overland. We were the first organized overland get together in the country. I can give you beta on routes or spots to check out if you need. Good luck with the search!