Expedition Camper- M135a2 (bobbed) or Unimog 404

[tumwaterjeeper]

Hey all,
I just sold my 76 Chevy 4x4 Van a couple months ago, now I'm prepping to start the next project...and wanted any incite and opinions anyone has to offer.

I'm torn between:

Mercedes 404 mog w/ habitat box
Bobbed M135a2 w/ habitat box

What i need:

A vehicle that is dependable, off-road capable (river crossings, ditches, steep hills, mostly logging road driving), flood rescue, minimal break downs, and be able to log many many miles.

What i know:
404....would be my choice, due to price and body style. Parts are easy to find it seems, Ebay is my friend.
They are slow, 55mph tops, mountain passes will require some reflectors and hazard lights.
Coil springs front and rear.
$7000 w/ out box.

Bobbed M135a2...Ive been really looking at these lately. Bobbed is the only option. More HP w/ a turbo would be great. Axles seem bombproof. I would upgrade to 46" tires. I was told they will cruise 60mph all day and capable of 70mph w/ tire upgrade. I hear 14mpg fuel. Payload is substantial.
Leaf Springs front and rear. Stiff ride.
$6000 w/ out box

What i don't know?:
404....Fuel mpg?
Motor swap sounds easy, am i delusional though?
With a bigger motor can i use the same axles?

Bobbed M135a2....Big parts=big tools? Trail work wont be fun i'm guessing..
Will I have ground clearance issues with big axles?
Leaf springs..Lots of axle wrap and no articulation?
Life expectancy of motor?

I cant think of anymore questions on hand...please lend me your knowledge.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Personally I am a huge mog fan, but I will tell you one BIG thing that the Deuce and a half has over the mog. The Deuce has an engine that can run on ANYTHING. I know of a guy who puts 80% used motor oil in the tank with 20% gasoline, and the thing runs great. You can put diesel in there, gas, Bio Diesel, french-fry oil, just about any combustible liquid, and the thing will drive on it. The main reason this is a good thing is because you never know when you will be out of fuel at the pumps. (obviously more common in the "third world" than in the USA or Europe, but to me it is a major plus.

You are correct, the Deuce and a half is a rough ride, but I should think the install of air ride seats would go a LONG way. Then I do not think it would be much worse than my old Mac Truck with leafs F&R. Axle wise, not to worry, the rockwells are a fairly strong axle. I think if you get on the mog forums most will say they are second to Mog axles, if you get on a Deuce forum most will tell you they are about a step up from a mog. Biggest differences in functionality that I see are the portal axles. (also I do not know if the rockwells come stock with lockers, or if there is even a possibility of installing one.)

No you do not have to worry about axle wrap unless you intend to change the spring system. I have never heard (and maybe I am just ignorant) of anyone who has had axle wrap with an otherwise stock Deuce.

I know of a guy at Hill AFB who drives his full size Deuce everywhere he goes. It is literally his DD.

Again, I personally like the Mog better, but there you have it. By the by, I have seen more than a few Deuces running for $4000-5000. But I have not seen a mog in good condition with or without the box for $7000.oo

The mog is not going to be as wide as the Deuce though.

Heck, all of that, and I would still prefer the mog myself, but not that I can think of a good reason other than personal preference.

Well, I hope that gets you some idea. I would check into steelsoldiers.com and ask around about the Deuce, I am sure you can find a few for sale there as well.

Also, a place called JAX outdoors (in Ft. Collins CO) used to have a huge military surplus area, and they always had four or five Deuces sitting outside for sale, they claimed they were all in working order. You might try to contact them and see what they have there (if they still sell them.) I have seen them there for as little as $2500 for a deuce.

Otherwise there are LOTS of mog forums and places to look for mogs. There is a lot of good info on here if you do a search, as well as on benzworld.org in their unimog forums, tons of knowledgeable people in both, and lots of great info in the searches.

Good luck.

 

[bajajoaquin]

There is a thread going about M35 conversions over in the "other custom campers" forum, although it's about un-bobbed deuces. The only correction I'd make to your info is about the cruising speed. I really doubt a deuce in stock form will cruise "all day" at 60 or above. Maybe, with bigger tires, but then with a stock engine it may be a little underpowered.

 

[haven]

Yeah, there's definitely something going on with a bobbed deuce

You can see the process illustrated here
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845406

 

[Ford Prefect]

Wow, Haven, that is a freaky cool looking truck! Man, looks like a smaller old Jeep military truck, or dodge, but until you look at the trailer and the guy in the photo, you just do not realize that is really a deuce! wow

OH another thing I neglected to mention. that duece is going to have a LOT more leg room than a mog. More head room as well come to that. Just a though.

Cheers
Brian

 

[tumwaterjeeper]

Roger that on the other forum...(i will check it out)
As far as cruising 60 mph this is only possible w/ 46" tires or above as stated.

I'm unsure about the locker in the front..ive seen them w/ air lockers, but
maybe a specific model has them. I will check.

My other question to anyone is..
How long are the duece motor lifespan?
The most i usually see is 15K to 20K miles.

 

[Markgyver]

There are a few nice Unimog's here in Denver on Craigslist.

 

[DzlToy]

Check out steel soldiers for all the info you could ever want on a 2.5 ton. Just search through whats there already and you are bound to find the info, as it has all been discussed before, bobbing, axles, highway travel, engine mods, tire sizes, all of it.

For lockers you have two choices, a Detroit or an ARB air locker. There are also higher gears (4.90) available from Ouverson Engineering, along with many other parts to upgrade or build your axles. (http://www.oemaxle.com/) Gearhart Engineering also has some axle parts and gears. If you are in the south or nearby talk to Steve Gerstner at Differential Engineering about axle tech, probably not much about the trucks though.

Pirate4x4 is full of axle tech, four links, rebuild info, specs, etc. just search for the rockwell threads by title. Much more info on Steel soldiers about the trucks though.

A deuce is a big heavy truck compared to a 404, each has its own advantages and disadvantages, so you just have to pick which is best for what you want to do with it.

 

[dzzz]

With the deuce you could fit the chassis to the desired box length. I expect these are pretty horrible on the highway. I suggest researching how much sound deadening and air suspension seats might help.
I would also suggest not going for a military look in the finished vehicle.
As always it's a question of needs and budget. Say with tires and winch the conversion costs $10K. What can be done to the cab/chassis with another $20K?
At 30K spent it would be a cost comparable to a better Fuso FG. It's interesting to think through the project.
For local driving I can't think of a more fun truck under 10K than a bobbed deuce.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Why would you avoid the military look? Personally I would as well, however that it just the fact that I do not like the mil spec looks. That is me, but what are your reasonings?

 

[Tennmogger]

Do you have a preference between Diesel power and gasoline engine? If you like the Diesel in the Deuce, you might look at the next step up in Unimogs, a 416 model. It's Diesel, gets decent mileage (12-14, or better, compared to half that for a Deuce) and has the payload to handle any camper you want to put on it. You can run 14.5x20 tires (42-43 inches tall) if you want, or stay with the more normal 12.5x20 tires at 39-40 inches tall. A 404 will get 10-12 mpg.

If you stay in the rpm range of a Deuce engine your top speed is probably not 55 mph, more like 50, and that's about what a 416 does. One of your questions was how many miles you might get on a Deuce multi-fuel engine, and that has been discussed on SS, but it's usually low, a few tens of k miles. Especially if you run anything through the fuel system other than cleanest Diesel. Any Unimog engine, if not abused, can go for hundreds of k miles.

An engine swap into a 404 is do-able, but not "easy" or cheap. There's just not enough room for most engines. Some MB Diesels will fit but require a special bell housing which sets the engine tilted a few degrees. There's the option of M-130 engine for more hp, or a higher compression head upgrade to the M-180 stock engine. If you read enough about these "upgrades" you might decide like I have that there are just too many problems to fool with. I like the original setups. Maintain the truck as near original as possible and let that MB engineering serve you well.

I also like Unimogs (as you can tell!). My wife and I camped in a 404 radio truck for many years. It's warm, dry, a comfortable ride, and the vehicle is very capable....just slow on the highway. Once you get off highway a 404 is as fast as most any truck, and will laugh at obstacles that stop others. The radio boxes are really heavy (a ton) so a lighter camper would be a worthwhile goal.

Here's a picture of my 404 radio truck crossing the Devils Crack in Moab.

Bob

Hey all,
I just sold my 76 Chevy 4x4 Van a couple months ago, now I'm prepping to start the next project...and wanted any incite and opinions anyone has to offer.

I'm torn between:

Mercedes 404 mog w/ habitat box
Bobbed M135a2 w/ habitat box

What i need:

A vehicle that is dependable, off-road capable (river crossings, ditches, steep hills, mostly logging road driving), flood rescue, minimal break downs, and be able to log many many miles.

What i know:
404....would be my choice, due to price and body style. Parts are easy to find it seems, Ebay is my friend.
They are slow, 55mph tops, mountain passes will require some reflectors and hazard lights.
Coil springs front and rear.
$7000 w/ out box.

Bobbed M135a2...Ive been really looking at these lately. Bobbed is the only option. More HP w/ a turbo would be great. Axles seem bombproof. I would upgrade to 46" tires. I was told they will cruise 60mph all day and capable of 70mph w/ tire upgrade. I hear 14mpg fuel. Payload is substantial.
Leaf Springs front and rear. Stiff ride.
$6000 w/ out box

What i don't know?:
404....Fuel mpg?
Motor swap sounds easy, am i delusional though?
With a bigger motor can i use the same axles?

Bobbed M135a2....Big parts=big tools? Trail work wont be fun i'm guessing..
Will I have ground clearance issues with big axles?
Leaf springs..Lots of axle wrap and no articulation?
Life expectancy of motor?

I cant think of anymore questions on hand...please lend me your knowledge.

 

[tumwaterjeeper]

awesome 404!
i have no preference on gas/diesel..and the motor life of a mog sounds far more inviting.
payload would be the only advantage to having a duece i've decided...
the maximum payload i will need is the habitat box, and fitting my 2 jetskis and or enduro on the back.
i think the mog is going to be it.
everyones info has helped a ton, much appreciated.

 

[dzzz]

Why would you avoid the military look? Personally I would as well, however that it just the fact that I do not like the mil spec looks. That is me, but what are your reasonings?

Travel outside the U.S.

 

[sargeek]

M35

Posted a link for a bobbed M35 in on "for sale expidition vehicles" that I found surfing the other day. I think it was 7K.

 

[Katoomer]

camo good to hide in woods