F-150 Diesel

[Dalko43]

Some say the Dodge chassis is merely a shipping crate for the Cummins engine...

To be fair to FCA, I do think their newer trucks are whole lot better than their older ones ever were. Better build quality, better designs, better outsourcing for many components (Aisin, Borg Warner). Heck, their gasoline Hemi engines are pretty damn reliable and I'd have no problem putting 200k miles on one and treating it the same way I treat my Toyota 4.0l v6. I see very little quality gap between the big 3 (Ford, GM, FCA); Ford perhaps has slightly better quality on interior components, but overall all 3 make good trucks IMO.

But when FCA decides to put an Italian-built 3.0l diesel into its mainstay 1/2 ton, an engine which seems to have had internal troubles (never-mind the emissions) from the very beginning, and then insist on using that same engine for the sacred Jeep platform, I do start to question the company's decision-making. I think the Italian ownership of FCA is letting their national pride influence their choice of engines. They'd get a whole lot more buy-in on the diesel concepts for 1/2 tons and jeeps if they went with a proven brand like Cummins...at least that's how I see it.

 

[DaveInDenver]

But when FCA decides to put an Italian-built 3.0l diesel into its mainstay 1/2 ton, an engine which seems to have had internal troubles (never-mind the emissions) from the very beginning, and then insist on using that same engine for the sacred Jeep platform, I do start to question the company's decision-making. I think the Italian ownership of FCA is letting their national pride influence their choice of engines.

Overseas the Voyager, Dakota, Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have used VM Motori engines since st least 1992 (back then it was still owned by Detroit Diesel, which itself was purchased by DaimlerChrysler later). Not that this is any mark of quality, those VM425 and VM428 are generally acknowledged best use is as boat anchors. But Fiat isn't breaking new ground globally using VM engines in Chrysler vehicles.

Interesting side note, they put a VM Motori engine in a Land Cruiser for a few years. The BJ73 was imported into Italy and Spain in the late 1980s without engines and the HR588 2.5L was used. Toyota kept the 'B' designation for some reason despite not having the 3B like it's cousins everywhere else. The way I understand it the best thing about those 2.5L BJ73 is they are usually cheaper and being unreliable probably don't have many miles on the chassis so are quite good candidates for swaps to Toyota diesels...

 

[Dalko43]

The VM Motori I think though has always been its own entity, even when Detroit Diesel owned it. They do have a pretty lengthy history of building diesels, as you point out @DaveInDenver. I'm sure some of them are fine. They build a 2.8l diesel which is used in the overseas Jeep and it was the basis for the 2.8l "Duramax" used in the new Colorado (GM built a modified version of that design). But this newer 3.0l v6 just hasn't proven itself to be a reliable workhorse the way other diesels from Cummins and Toyota have.

All the newer diesels (even Toyota's) have been dealing with emissions issues, but these VM Motori 3.0l's were having actual internal components fail after very little mileage. I'm not sure if that issue has been sufficiently addressed with the more recent versions, but that engine just hasn't inspired a lot of confidence, and I think a lot of traditional Ram buyers have been tepid about it for that reason.

 

[Clutch]

To be fair to FCA, I do think their newer trucks are whole lot better than their older ones ever were. Better build quality, better designs, better outsourcing for many components (Aisin, Borg Warner). Heck, their gasoline Hemi engines are pretty damn reliable and I'd have no problem putting 200k miles on one and treating it the same way I treat my Toyota 4.0l v6. I see very little quality gap between the big 3 (Ford, GM, FCA); Ford perhaps has slightly better quality on interior components, but overall all 3 make good trucks IMO.

But when FCA decides to put an Italian-built 3.0l diesel into its mainstay 1/2 ton, an engine which seems to have had internal troubles (never-mind the emissions) from the very beginning, and then insist on using that same engine for the sacred Jeep platform, I do start to question the company's decision-making. I think the Italian ownership of FCA is letting their national pride influence their choice of engines. They'd get a whole lot more buy-in on the diesel concepts for 1/2 tons and jeeps if they went with a proven brand like Cummins...at least that's how I see it.

They have come a long way. The new trucks look great...have really stepped up the game. Not sure if they are on the lots yet...was going to swing by the one near me and have a look-see.

I am more intrigued by the new electric motor assist on the V6 than I am the diesel.


Yeah maybe they don't understand the Deezul culture here.

 

[Riley]

Pricing's up - a 3K option hereabouts....

'18 F150 3.0

 

[Clutch]

Pricing's up - a 3K option hereabouts....

'18 F150 3.0

More like a $13K option since the cheapest package of the 3 it is available on is the Lariat. You're SOL of you want it in an XL...


...you'll save on fuel but it is gonna cost ya!

 

[Watt maker]

More like a $13K option since the cheapest package of the 3 it is available on is the Lariat. You're SOL of you want it in an XL...


...you'll save on fuel but it is gonna cost ya!

The diesel is available in the XL and XLT trims but only for fleet sales. You could probably find a fleet sales manager that would let you purchase one.

 

[Buliwyf]

It's easy. Find a Fleet company that sells stuff and has a sales staff. Like a large heavy equipment dealer. Emergency generator dealer, etc. etc. Unfortunately many have lease-ish fleets governed by Enterprise/Wright Express.

I still think a 5.0 makes more sense though.

 

[Clutch]

The diesel is available in the XL and XLT trims but only for fleet sales. You could probably find a fleet sales manager that would let you purchase one.

I am self employed, could run it through my business... though I am one man show, they probably want you to buy 10+...

It's easy. Find a Fleet company that sells stuff and has a sales staff. Like a large heavy equipment dealer. Emergency generator dealer, etc. etc. Unfortunately many have lease-ish fleets governed by Enterprise/Wright Express.

I still think a 5.0 makes more sense though.

Yeah, have little to no interest in a diesel. 5.0 makes more sense...and for me, the NA V6 makes even more sense, it is all I really need.

 

[Dalko43]

Pricing's up - a 3K option hereabouts....

'18 F150 3.0

More like a $13K option since the cheapest package of the 3 it is available on is the Lariat. You're SOL of you want it in an XL...


...you'll save on fuel but it is gonna cost ya!

$3k option. You dont count the trim price towards the engine.


They will eventually offer the diesel in the base trims for consumer sales....just find a used fleet truck if you really want to go the cheap route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Clutch]

$3k option. You dont count the trim price towards the engine.


They will eventually offer the diesel in the base trims for consumer sales....just find a used fleet truck if you really want to go the cheap route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When they force you to buy a trim to get engine option then yes you include it in the price.

Or is your calculator broken???

Show me where you can option that engine in a base model consumer XL. Make that a 2WD Regular cab too!

 

[Dalko43]

When they force you to buy a trim to get engine option then yes you include it in the price.

No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you're not going to buy a diesel, why do you even complain about the price?

 

[Clutch]

No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you're not going to buy a diesel, why do you even complain about the price?

Guess it is going over your head??? You seem like a smart dude, but I have to wonder at times... You don't even like Fords, why do even argue about them!?

That diesel engine is not a $3000 option when you have to buy the Lariat (or Platium, or King Ranch) package to get it. No matter who the buyer is, you, me, whoever the consumer is.

When you can option that engine in a base model XL NA V6 for only an additional $3000, without having to buy an upper level trim...then it yes, it would be a $3000 option. But currently it is not.

Perhaps this analogy will work. Say you go to restaurant and only want a burger for $2.00, but at this restaurant, the only way to get a burger is in a combo meal for $8.00. They won't sell you just the burger, you have to buy the combo meal...even though you don't want the fries and drink.

So what do you do? You go find a place that will sell you just the burger. "Hey look there is a Ram dealer right beside this burger joint...I heard they let you option an EcoDiesel in their base model 1/2 ton trucks..."



It is kinda silly to offer an efficient engine in only the only upper trim models. What is the point of having a fuel sipping engine, if it isn't going to save you any money? I mean that is kinda of the point of being efficient isn't it, to save money and resources. At least to me it is. I like the base models not only because they are cheaper, but for the no frills interior. I may not be like most guys, but I actually use my truck. Like this past weekend I was out clearing dirt bike trails of dead fall. Cleared damn near a 100 trees this go around. It poured down rain half the time. When I get back to camp, I am wet covered in mud, sawdust, bar&chain oil, gas...and a little blood. I will ****** up a nice interior right quick. I dunno...luxo interiors have no place in a pickup truck, but I am old skool...

 

[Dalko43]

Guess it is going over your head??? You seem like a smart dude, but I have to wonder at times... You don't even like Fords, why do even argue about them!?

That diesel engine is not a $3000 option when you have to buy the Lariat (or Platium, or King Ranch) package to get it. No matter who the buyer is, you, me, whoever the consumer is.

Except that if someone was going to buy a higher trim regardless (which plenty of people will), the diesel engine is only a $3k option.

If you want a lower trim F-150 with a diesel, wait for Ford to make the option available (which they likely will at some point) or buy a used fleet truck. Or go buy a used Ram 1500 ecodiesel.

When you say things like forced, you make it sound like you, the consumer, don't have options...that isn't the case.

So stop complaining...no one cares that you're "old skool" and ride a bike. Some people will buy the diesel F-150. In 5 or so years, those trucks will likely be available for good deals on the used market.

 

[Clutch]

Except that if someone was going to buy a higher trim regardless (which plenty of people will), the diesel engine is only a $3k option.

If you want a lower trim F-150 with a diesel, wait for Ford to make the option available (which they likely will at some point) or buy a used fleet truck. Or go buy a used Ram 1500 ecodiesel.

When you say things like forced, you make it sound like you, the consumer, don't have options...that isn't the case.

So stop complaining...no one cares that you're "old skool" and ride a bike. Some people will buy the diesel F-150. In 5 or so years, those trucks will likely be available for good deals on the used market.

Sorry dude we will have to agree to disagree. If you want the Ford diesel the consumer is forced to buy an upper trim model. Sorry you don't like that word. There are no other options.

Simply pointing that a few of us actually use and abuse our trucks. And have no need for candied asses nancy boy urban cowboy interiors. Makes no sense to offer a workhorse engine in the non-work trim levels.

Not complaining, that is truth sprinkle with sarcasm! Which seems to fly over your head. Swear you have the sense of humor of a dead carp. You're too gawd damn serious. ******** man go camping or something. Nobody may care what I do, but at least I am getting out and doing something! We never really hear if you actually go out and explore the outdoors...do you just argue about vehicle payloads and whatnot, and nothing else!? Inquiring Minds want to know!

Why are you even arguing about Fords anyways? You have said time and time again that you don't like them. For someone who dislikes the brand you sure do like to defend them for some odd reason. At least I like the company and have owned Fords in the past. 8 of them if you're counting.