F150 - 2.7L vs 3.5L vs 5.0L

[ITTOG]

Owner's manual on my F150 with the 3.5 recommends using the highest octane possible when towing heavy. Engine will adjust and put out additional power on the higher octane fuel.

I tried that with all octane ratings available to me: 87, 89, 91, and 93. I saw no changes at all (mpg's, power, torque, etc). This was true whether I was towing or not.

 

[Dougnuts]

Huh. I never knew about the +91 octane boosting HP / Torque numbers. Most stations around here carry 87, 89 then it jumps to +93/+94. I'll have to try filing up with +93/+94 next time I'm headed out towing our trailer and see if I can notice any difference in torque when towing.

Low (engine) speed, high load, is where the differences are really felt. Lots of people don't know that is where pre-ignition is the hardest to control. Everyone focuses on peak power output, but low and mid-range torque increases are what you will feel, and the areas where timing is often pulled the most.

In my 2018 3.5TT, the difference in low RPM throttle tip-in between 87 and 93 felt nearly as big as eco mode vs. normal mode. I ran premium in it probably 90% of the time. I'd have to go back and check to verify, but I'm pretty sure I got about 5% better fuel economy too.

For my new '23 (also a 3.5TT w/ 3.55 gears), I may not run premium in the winter or spring, but in the warmer months and when laden, I will certainly run 91+.

 

[Ozarker]

Sorry, meant to say 5.0, running regular, but the real question here should include "what transmission" is behind that engine, they work together, and don't forget gearing.

 

[calicamper]

Huh. I never knew about the +91 octane boosting HP / Torque numbers. Most stations around here carry 87, 89 then it jumps to +93/+94. I'll have to try filing up with +93/+94 next time I'm headed out towing our trailer and see if I can notice any difference in torque when towing.

Took a solid 1/2 tank of fresh higher octane before the power change was obvious. But yes there’s a pretty noticeable difference especially towing and the mid range power.

 

[Dougnuts]

I tried that with all octane ratings available to me: 87, 89, 91, and 93. I saw no changes at all (mpg's, power, torque, etc). This was true whether I was towing or not.

Here's a C&D test that shows power gains on a 3.5 Ecoboost (scroll down to about half way). It also mentions the change in off idle and mid-range urgency I mentioned.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/?fbclid=IwAR1x2fpJo3ADcwygybj9Toy3hKpGqhj8D6N3YZdRdNNlJgsG1bRbM10fihc

Here's their description of what happened after changing to 87. Less boost was made, less fuel economy, slower to 60, etc.

Power at the wheels dropped from 380 to 360 horsepower with the change from 93 to 87 octane. That difference seemed to grow, and we could even feel it from the driver's seat at the test track. Compared with premium fuel, regular feed sapped the F-150's urgency both leaving the line and in the meat of the tach sweep. The rush to 60 mph softened to a still-blistering 5.9 seconds, and the quarter-mile stretched from 14.0 to 14.5 seconds, with trap speed falling 4 mph. Tapped into the Ford's CAN bus, we recorded a peak boost pressure roughly 1.9 psi lower during acceleration runs on regular gas, down more than 10 percent compared with the 18.1-psi peak on premium. The high-octane gas also helped when soft-pedaling the accelerator, elevating 75-mph fuel economy from 17.0 to 17.6 mpg. That won't make a financial case for running 93 octane, but then you didn't buy the expensive engine as a rational choice. You can think of this EcoBoost engine's more aggressive high-octane tune as a sort-of sport mode that can be switched on or off with every fill of its 36.0-gallon tank.

 

[Dougnuts]

Here's a good NHTSA paper on a 2017 3.5TT F150. This should further put to rest the claims that there are not any power and efficiency gains available on higher octane gasoline. There is a LOT of good info in here, but pgs. 54-57 are relevant to our discussion.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/812520.pdf

Table 24 and Table 25 summarize the results from the performance testing with the different fuels. The vehicle performance is better for the 93 AKI fuel compared to the 88 AKI fuel. The vehicle accelerates 0.7 seconds faster to 80 mph under maximum acceleration with the 93 AKI fuel. The passing maneuvers are also executed faster with the 93 AKI fuel, except for the 35 mph to 55 mph test. It appears that the powertrain experienced a longer hesitation to build boost and switch gears for the 93 AKI fuel condition on that passing test. The performance tests suggested that the engine torque is increased with the higher octane fuel due to spark advance

 

[D45]

What's this 3.5L Hybrid about?

430 HP????
570 TQ?????

 

[Bigc3031]

I went from an 08 f250 with the 6.4(biggest hunk of junk I’ve owned) to a 2015 F150 3.5l max tow with all the upgrades, 33” tires, fix level, etc and it was a beast for 245,000 miles and it was 3/4 loaded its whole life with mixed towing. It was an amazing truck with minimal maintenance. It liked throttle bodies and plugs every 60k.

I was very happy with it but the one downside was I couldn’t add a winch.

I’d buy it again unless you want an HD.

I now have an F350 with the 7.3, tremor and factory winch and wouldn’t look back. The 150 was way faster(Livermore tune, downpipe, exhaust) but I think the superduty will far outlive it.

I don’t think you can go wrong with the 3.5 or the 5.0 but I’d stay away from the hybrid if you travel remote as it does add some complexity.

 

[calicamper]

I went from an 08 f250 with the 6.4(biggest hunk of junk I’ve owned) to a 2015 F150 3.5l max tow with all the upgrades, 33” tires, fix level, etc and it was a beast for 245,000 miles and it was 3/4 loaded its whole life with mixed towing. It was an amazing truck with minimal maintenance. It liked throttle bodies and plugs every 60k.

I was very happy with it but the one downside was I couldn’t add a winch.

I’d buy it again unless you want an HD.

I now have an F350 with the 7.3, tremor and factory winch and wouldn’t look back. The 150 was way faster(Livermore tune, downpipe, exhaust) but I think the superduty will far outlive it.

I don’t think you can go wrong with the 3.5 or the 5.0 but I’d stay away from the hybrid if you travel remote as it does add some complexity.

I like the hybrid for city life / traffic and the 7500 watt power capacity. I’d sell my portable generator if I had that capability tagging along and available to power my house if needed. Does add complexity tho.. I haven’t heard too many complaints however. If your just doing long trips in it and don’t have a need to power your house during outages then its just extra junk and $ you won’t use👍

 

[Dougnuts]

I like the hybrid for city life / traffic and the 7500 watt power capacity. I’d sell my portable generator if I had that capability tagging along and available to power my house if needed. Does add complexity tho.. I haven’t heard too many complaints however. If your just doing long trips in it and don’t have a need to power your house during outages then its just extra junk and $ you won’t use👍

Agree on the convenience of onboard power. However, there are lots of Powerboost complaints on the Forums and FB groups. They were the least reliable drivetrain of F150 for the last few years, which is understandable as it was new. In the '24+Ford expects the Powerboost to increase from 10% of units sold, to 20% of units sold, so I imagine they've put a lot of work into ironing things out.

Also, a lot of '21-'23 Powerboosts (I've heard all and I've heard not all) came with the 3/4 float max tow axle, which is something to be avoided.

Lastly, if you don't do a lot of stop/go driving or really need the onboard power, I don't see a lot of benefit to the Powerboost. Like in the Toyota Tundra, the extra power is largely offset by the extra heft.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Agree on the convenience of onboard power. However, there are lots of Powerboost complaints on the Forums and FB groups. They were the least reliable drivetrain of F150 for the last few years, which is understandable as it was new. In the '24+Ford expects the Powerboost to increase from 10% of units sold, to 20% of units sold, so I imagine they've put a lot of work into ironing things out.

Also, a lot of '21-'23 Powerboosts (I've heard all and I've heard not all) came with the 3/4 float max tow axle, which is something to be avoided.

Lastly, if you don't do a lot of stop/go driving or really need the onboard power, I don't see a lot of benefit to the Powerboost. Like in the Toyota Tundra, the extra power is largely offset by the extra heft.

No issues with my max tow axle so far. (knock on wood) I have a pending recall for it which I'll have done.

They've also added ProPower onboard as an option on the Super Duty's which makes sense to me for an HD truck given it's uses in the commercial and RV world.

 

[calicamper]

Agree on the convenience of onboard power. However, there are lots of Powerboost complaints on the Forums and FB groups. They were the least reliable drivetrain of F150 for the last few years, which is understandable as it was new. In the '24+Ford expects the Powerboost to increase from 10% of units sold, to 20% of units sold, so I imagine they've put a lot of work into ironing things out.

Also, a lot of '21-'23 Powerboosts (I've heard all and I've heard not all) came with the 3/4 float max tow axle, which is something to be avoided.

Lastly, if you don't do a lot of stop/go driving or really need the onboard power, I don't see a lot of benefit to the Powerboost. Like in the Toyota Tundra, the extra power is largely offset by the extra heft.

The max
Tow axle is that the same Tremor axle seat issue where the axle tubes on some were under sized or not setup up correctly and have dented from load weight?

 

[calicamper]

Agree on the convenience of onboard power. However, there are lots of Powerboost complaints on the Forums and FB groups. They were the least reliable drivetrain of F150 for the last few years, which is understandable as it was new. In the '24+Ford expects the Powerboost to increase from 10% of units sold, to 20% of units sold, so I imagine they've put a lot of work into ironing things out.

Also, a lot of '21-'23 Powerboosts (I've heard all and I've heard not all) came with the 3/4 float max tow axle, which is something to be avoided.

Lastly, if you don't do a lot of stop/go driving or really need the onboard power, I don't see a lot of benefit to the Powerboost. Like in the Toyota Tundra, the extra power is largely offset by the extra heft.

Even the efficient sedans are pretty much identical mileage to their non hybrid versions when just doing long highway trips. Its the stop and go city crawl where the hybrid really shows its strengths. The highway cruiser application your just hauling extra crap👍

 

[D45]

On my 2012, I was able to lock the rear axle in 2WD

Is this still an option or not?