Well, you guys are active enough that I think you'll be cool parents regardless. Just dont be like my parents and wait till their 40s to have a whoops! Sure we went places, but didnt do much but "relax" when we got there.... especially after my dad had his heart attack. The biggest adventure my dad had (besides raising 3 boys) is me dragging him to Costa Rica.
Family "Planning"?
- Thread starter LaOutbackTrail
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Well, you guys are active enough that I think you'll be cool parents regardless. Just dont be like my parents and wait till their 40s to have a whoops! Sure we went places, but didnt do much but "relax" when we got there.... especially after my dad had his heart attack. The biggest adventure my dad had (besides raising 3 boys) is me dragging him to Costa Rica.
1)The problem with kids, any kids, is that they grow up to be teenagers. As the parent of a 15-yo and a 13-yo, I know. :ylsmoke:
2) My wife was an only child (until she was 18ish). She considers it a crime that she was not given the opportunity to have brothers and sisters to fight with and love.
3) In my case my older bro and I tore it all up together because we were only two years apart. My smaller brother and I get along fine, but we didn't really click into understanding each other until adulthood because the age difference (five years) kept our interests separate.
4) My Leary is absolutely correct, as usual, in his observation that the seconde child changes your household dynamic WAAAAAY less than the first one did.
2) My wife was an only child (until she was 18ish). She considers it a crime that she was not given the opportunity to have brothers and sisters to fight with and love.
3) In my case my older bro and I tore it all up together because we were only two years apart. My smaller brother and I get along fine, but we didn't really click into understanding each other until adulthood because the age difference (five years) kept our interests separate.
4) My Leary is absolutely correct, as usual, in his observation that the seconde child changes your household dynamic WAAAAAY less than the first one did.
Maddmatt
Explorer
Not always true - in my case couldn't be further from the truth. Our second almost killed me.
My girls are 2.5 years apart, and are best friends. Truly inseperable - we often lose them in one of their bedrooms for hours while they work out these incredibly elaborate fantasy worlds - it's a true privilege just to be able to witness how they grow.
HOWEVER - we were shooting for 3 years apart. My brother and I are three years apart and apart from the usual childhood squabbles have always been pretty close. My wife is the youngest of 3, and her sisters are 7 and 9 years older than her - they were off to high school and college before she ever really got to know them.
But we found out that the second one seems to 'happen' a bit quicker than the first, about 6 months before expected in our case. So we had one in diapers, one infant, an elderly dog and I was traveling 3 weeks out of four for my job. I ended up changing jobs, taking one closer to home with a dramatic drop in pay and security but exchanging that for a reduction in travel just to keep our sanity. I would get home from a 4 day business trip to find a house full of people who hadn't slept since I left due to one illness or another. Honestly felt that I wouldn't physically make it through that first 6 months with the second.
So after all that - I'd still say get working on that second kid now. Scars heal, you can sleep when you're dead and watching my girls go through life as best friends is more than worth any sacrifice on my part. But don't for a minute think that it's going to be easier.
Navman
Adventurer
My two kids are 4 years apart and we wouldn't want them any further apart. We wish they were a little closer in age. The closer they are in age the easier it is for them to play together. The more they play together, the more freedom you and the wife will have.
As others have said, the second one is way easier. When the first one dropped the pacifier on floor you sterilized it in boiling water. When the second one drops it you don't even blow it off - just stick it back in...:sombrero:
As others have said, the second one is way easier. When the first one dropped the pacifier on floor you sterilized it in boiling water. When the second one drops it you don't even blow it off - just stick it back in...:sombrero:
Superu
Explorer
I was 40 when we had our 3rd who is now 5. Just gives me more incentive to keep fit and active so I can enjoy all the activities I want with my boys as they grow.
I'm in better shape now than anytime in the past 10 years and having kids has definitely been a huge incentive for that.
Age is just a number, don't let it slow you down!
The Adam Blaster
Expedition Leader
After Maddmatt's comment, I should share this:
One of my best friends has 2 boys, they were planning on a third.
The first was awesome as a baby, and now as a little boy (about 5 1/2 now).
The younger boy... Well, I said they WERE planning on having three...
He's a little terror, much worse behaved, more possessive about everything and is much more physical in his play - he hits a lot.
So, the 2nd should be easier, as long as their genetic code doesn't have a healthy sprinkling of "demon" included. lol
I am the middle of 3 kids and my mom says I was the easiest and best behaved. And in adulthood, I can somewhat credit my generally pleasant demeanor to having a jerky older brother and a whiny younger sister. :wings:
One of my best friends has 2 boys, they were planning on a third.
The first was awesome as a baby, and now as a little boy (about 5 1/2 now).
The younger boy... Well, I said they WERE planning on having three...
He's a little terror, much worse behaved, more possessive about everything and is much more physical in his play - he hits a lot.
So, the 2nd should be easier, as long as their genetic code doesn't have a healthy sprinkling of "demon" included. lol
I am the middle of 3 kids and my mom says I was the easiest and best behaved. And in adulthood, I can somewhat credit my generally pleasant demeanor to having a jerky older brother and a whiny younger sister. :wings:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Well, it sounds like your troubles were external to the child herself?
In my case, I went through a rough period with the first one... lets see, when he was 3 months old, I changed jobs as well, in another city, so I was gone from home for 5 days a week. My wife stayed home, taking care of our boy with no family in town at all for support, while we tried to sell the house. 6 months of that, and they moved into our new house. 6 months later, another job change, in another new city, and 6 months more spent seperated, again with her home alone, no family support, trying to sell a house.
But that's not what I was talking about with our son being difficult. We've been stable for 2 years, and he's still difficult. :Wow1:
In my case, I went through a rough period with the first one... lets see, when he was 3 months old, I changed jobs as well, in another city, so I was gone from home for 5 days a week. My wife stayed home, taking care of our boy with no family in town at all for support, while we tried to sell the house. 6 months of that, and they moved into our new house. 6 months later, another job change, in another new city, and 6 months more spent seperated, again with her home alone, no family support, trying to sell a house.
But that's not what I was talking about with our son being difficult. We've been stable for 2 years, and he's still difficult. :Wow1:
I also forgot to mention that my wife is in graduate school, so we were talking about "scheduling" the baby for a summer break. We went through undergrad raising our first one and had the baby a few days after the semester ended, then we had the whole summer off to take care of her.
This is a great thread.
Special award goes out to Superu for his efforts to keep it ExPo related. :smiley_drive:
For my part, I did not mean to imply that the second kid was any easier or harder than the first. What I meant to say was that the big impact is going from zero kids to one kid. Once you have done that, going from one kid to two kids is somewhat less radical a lifestyle change.
Special award goes out to Superu for his efforts to keep it ExPo related. :smiley_drive:
For my part, I did not mean to imply that the second kid was any easier or harder than the first. What I meant to say was that the big impact is going from zero kids to one kid. Once you have done that, going from one kid to two kids is somewhat less radical a lifestyle change.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
To flesh that out a bit I guess...
My son was a very picky eater, right out of the womb. He would only eat on one side, being held in a specific way. Often he would wake up crying from hunger, but wouldn't stop crying long enough to start feeding. After feeding, typically took 30-60 minutes of rocking before he would stop crying and go to sleep again. Later on, this developed into just general trouble in sleeping. He didn't sleep through the night until he was 3 years old. I'm not kidding. He was also very compulsive. ie: He would sometimes throw his soother out of the crib for some reason, and then start crying for it. We resorted to putting him to bed with a "spare" soother. Eventually, he wanted both soothers simultaneously, one in his mouth, one in his hand. Then that wasn't enough, and he wanted 3 soothers... the only solution to this was cold-turkey, no soothers. 1 week of hell, but then he got over that. It would be too long to go into all the details, but sleep was a big problem. He just did not want to sleep.
Now, I believe because of the lack of sleep, and continued poor eating, he's very small. He started out 25th percentile, and has fallen below 5th percentile. We don't really know where he is because the charts don't show lines below 5. He only gained 5 lbs between his 2nd and 4th birthday. Behaviourally... we've had some issues. He's compulsive and impulsive. Things have to be just a certain way or he flips out. He has tantrums almost every night before his bath, hits my wife, etc. He's in kindergarten now and has gotten in trouble for hitting other kids. For eating, the doctors insist that we only feed him good food, stick with it, and he won't starve himself. Well, he does. He's skin and bones. He's been sick pretty often this winter.
The flipside of it, he's *wickidly* smart. Never ceases to amaze us. At 4, he's fully bilingual english and french. He recognizes brands, and branding, whether it's Land Rover badge, Kraft, Bass Pro Shops... he knows the make and model of a surprising number of cars, and even understands design "language". He knows what a Hummer is, whether it's an H1, H2, or H3. The first time he saw a new Range Rover, he knew it was a Land Rover. He's been doing 48 piece puzzles since he was 3, and now tackles 100 pieces, by himself.
Don't get me wrong, he's a good kid. We've worked through a lot of his issues, it's just been a huge struggle. He sleeps pretty well now, and we are getting his behaviour under control. The only thing we really struggle with still is eating.
Our daughter eats and sleeps so well, she's shot up to 95th percentile at 3 months. Nobody in our family is that big. She's 15 lbs, and our son is 4 years old and he's 30. Unbelievable. She's also avoided every illness my son and us got this winter.
My son was a very picky eater, right out of the womb. He would only eat on one side, being held in a specific way. Often he would wake up crying from hunger, but wouldn't stop crying long enough to start feeding. After feeding, typically took 30-60 minutes of rocking before he would stop crying and go to sleep again. Later on, this developed into just general trouble in sleeping. He didn't sleep through the night until he was 3 years old. I'm not kidding. He was also very compulsive. ie: He would sometimes throw his soother out of the crib for some reason, and then start crying for it. We resorted to putting him to bed with a "spare" soother. Eventually, he wanted both soothers simultaneously, one in his mouth, one in his hand. Then that wasn't enough, and he wanted 3 soothers... the only solution to this was cold-turkey, no soothers. 1 week of hell, but then he got over that. It would be too long to go into all the details, but sleep was a big problem. He just did not want to sleep.
Now, I believe because of the lack of sleep, and continued poor eating, he's very small. He started out 25th percentile, and has fallen below 5th percentile. We don't really know where he is because the charts don't show lines below 5. He only gained 5 lbs between his 2nd and 4th birthday. Behaviourally... we've had some issues. He's compulsive and impulsive. Things have to be just a certain way or he flips out. He has tantrums almost every night before his bath, hits my wife, etc. He's in kindergarten now and has gotten in trouble for hitting other kids. For eating, the doctors insist that we only feed him good food, stick with it, and he won't starve himself. Well, he does. He's skin and bones. He's been sick pretty often this winter.
The flipside of it, he's *wickidly* smart. Never ceases to amaze us. At 4, he's fully bilingual english and french. He recognizes brands, and branding, whether it's Land Rover badge, Kraft, Bass Pro Shops... he knows the make and model of a surprising number of cars, and even understands design "language". He knows what a Hummer is, whether it's an H1, H2, or H3. The first time he saw a new Range Rover, he knew it was a Land Rover. He's been doing 48 piece puzzles since he was 3, and now tackles 100 pieces, by himself.
Don't get me wrong, he's a good kid. We've worked through a lot of his issues, it's just been a huge struggle. He sleeps pretty well now, and we are getting his behaviour under control. The only thing we really struggle with still is eating.
Our daughter eats and sleeps so well, she's shot up to 95th percentile at 3 months. Nobody in our family is that big. She's 15 lbs, and our son is 4 years old and he's 30. Unbelievable. She's also avoided every illness my son and us got this winter.
Wow Rob, thats pretty crazy about your boy!
My daughter was great from the get go! She was 8lbs something and would sleep great between feedings (breast fed) and placed back in her bassinet after wards. She ate great too. And she was up in the 90th percentile from the start too. She only had one real problem, she ended up being allergic to a formula and would spit up and be ill from it. Her normal doctor just pumped her up with antibiotics and we finally had enough of that (I hate medicine) and found a different doctor that just said she was allergic to that type of formula and suggested a different one. She was fine. But then, the docs were concerned about the size of her head... it was in like the 101% so they did a CT scan on her. Just said she's going to be a smart one!
She's always been a good little girl. Strong willed though and tough, the kind that gets what she wants. Always smiling.
So our first daughter was a great example that the second will hopefully lead by. I just sort of hope its a boy so that he can be in the Boy Scouts and I can be a scout leader or something!
My daughter was great from the get go! She was 8lbs something and would sleep great between feedings (breast fed) and placed back in her bassinet after wards. She ate great too. And she was up in the 90th percentile from the start too. She only had one real problem, she ended up being allergic to a formula and would spit up and be ill from it. Her normal doctor just pumped her up with antibiotics and we finally had enough of that (I hate medicine) and found a different doctor that just said she was allergic to that type of formula and suggested a different one. She was fine. But then, the docs were concerned about the size of her head... it was in like the 101% so they did a CT scan on her. Just said she's going to be a smart one!
She's always been a good little girl. Strong willed though and tough, the kind that gets what she wants. Always smiling.
So our first daughter was a great example that the second will hopefully lead by. I just sort of hope its a boy so that he can be in the Boy Scouts and I can be a scout leader or something!
Maddmatt
Explorer
More random comments:
Our difficulties with the second baby were amplified by external factors - but I stand by my statement that the second baby is far more work than the first in our situation. At 2 1/2 my oldest wasn't yet old enough to be 'self entertained' for very long, yet the new born as you all know needs 24/7 attention for awhile.
On the plus side, we eventually grew out of that stage, but 6 years later my rose-colored recollection glasses haven't completely filled in, so I am still acutely aware of the difficulties we faced.
Also, on the plus side, at the ages of 6&8 my girls couldn't be happier, easier children. They really are best friends, play together wonderfully and are finally at the age where they are great traveling and adventure companions. They have and love their own sleeping bags and headlamps, they can read maps (or try anyway)- on a camping trip last summer my 6yo (5 at the time) was the first to spot a fox running past our camp. What a great moment for everybody - she was so proud as she's almost never the first to see anything. Within seconds she had worked out in her mind exactly what the fox was doing (hunting food for her babies) where she was going, etc.... a whole narrative which she shared with us. That moment alone was worth far more than the first 6 months of hell.
So back to the original post - I say again get working on another kid, just don't be fooled by promises of an 'easier' time
Our difficulties with the second baby were amplified by external factors - but I stand by my statement that the second baby is far more work than the first in our situation. At 2 1/2 my oldest wasn't yet old enough to be 'self entertained' for very long, yet the new born as you all know needs 24/7 attention for awhile.
On the plus side, we eventually grew out of that stage, but 6 years later my rose-colored recollection glasses haven't completely filled in, so I am still acutely aware of the difficulties we faced.
Also, on the plus side, at the ages of 6&8 my girls couldn't be happier, easier children. They really are best friends, play together wonderfully and are finally at the age where they are great traveling and adventure companions. They have and love their own sleeping bags and headlamps, they can read maps (or try anyway)- on a camping trip last summer my 6yo (5 at the time) was the first to spot a fox running past our camp. What a great moment for everybody - she was so proud as she's almost never the first to see anything. Within seconds she had worked out in her mind exactly what the fox was doing (hunting food for her babies) where she was going, etc.... a whole narrative which she shared with us. That moment alone was worth far more than the first 6 months of hell.
So back to the original post - I say again get working on another kid, just don't be fooled by promises of an 'easier' time
Now, as far as the ExPo plans... I'm looking at a suburban diesel and building a truck like Colorado Ron's. We have 2 mutts that travel with us too... so the extra extra room will be nice. Also thinking about a Subaru Outback for my wife...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Oh yeah, our boy 5% for height and weight with a 95% head. Getting clothes on him is a challenge! He had ceizures when he was about 1 year old. About 3 hours after we put him to bed, so about 10PM, right when he should enter REM sleep, he'd start this bone chilling MOAN, not a cry but a moan like a mummy. Run into his room, his eyes were open, but he wasn't moving. Pick him up, he's like a rag doll. Not responsive, eventually looking around confused, eyes all bugged out. Call 911 and wait for the ambulance. Holding him, can't figure out what's wrong... that was THE most scared I've been in my life, and I've done a lot of stupid things. We had to video it because the doctors weren't listening. Once they saw it, they MRI'd him, no problems found. It happened about 6 times I think. Hasn't done it since he turned 2. My brother is the one who figured out what it was, Night Terrors. Different than nightmares.
Like I said, he's a good kid. And I'm not just saying that because he's mine. If he's in a good mood, people think he's amazing. We've gotten through most of his behaviours, it's just been like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay. The only meat he likes to eat is hot dogs, anything else is a struggle. Last night I got him to eat some pork "Hey Phil, how does TRex eat meat? Arggh argghh arggh?" "No, he goes Yarff, yarff yarff..."
Like I said, he's a good kid. And I'm not just saying that because he's mine. If he's in a good mood, people think he's amazing. We've gotten through most of his behaviours, it's just been like a game of Survivor. Outwit. Outlast. Outplay. The only meat he likes to eat is hot dogs, anything else is a struggle. Last night I got him to eat some pork "Hey Phil, how does TRex eat meat? Arggh argghh arggh?" "No, he goes Yarff, yarff yarff..."
The Adam Blaster
Expedition Leader
I'm actually considering to try and get into volunteering with one of the local troops near my home.
I have a number of reasons for this, but I think it would be great to help get your kids into camping with other kids their age.
I was in Scouts when I was young, and I had a lot of fun camping away from my family with other kids. Camping really was the only reason I was interested in Scouting.
My family was into tent camping as well, but it was great no matter who I camped with.