Feasibility of converting MB1017A from 2WD to 4WD in N. America?

[tonydca]

Title sums it up - previous truck options for me have not panned out, and now I'm looking at a 1017 that appears to be in nice shape overall. Typical ex-Army, low-miles, minimal-to-no-rust, easy-life vehicle.

But,... 2WD, no diff locks, not even sure that it has a H/L transfer case (will be getting more pics soon). It's compounded by the fact that the vehicle is already in North America, likely far from any knowledgeable MB truck shops. But price point of the base truck seems pretty good - leaves a bunch or room for upgrades.

Now I understand that all things are possible if enough time and hard currency are applied, but there comes a time when it's not worth it.

I would like to think that the clever Teutonic engineers who originally made these trucks made them relatively modular - i.e. doing a conversion like this is more about swapping axles, bolting-on of parts and running of pneumatics lines and less about cutting and welding (like trying to convert an old Dodge pickup from 2WD to 4WD - good luck with *that*...).

I'm hoping that one might be able to find a 4WD donor 1017 with a dead engine and/or wrecked cab and/or rusted-out frame somewhere in Europe and cannibalize it for drivetrain parts. Transfer case, F/R axles, probably all three driveshafts from the 4WD, cabin switch gear, and pneumatics block/lines. Rumour has it that MB made heaps of these trucks over the years, so perhaps there are some unloved carcasses hanging around. Get a shop manual, ship the parts to North America and slap 'em together - how hard can it be, right?????

Does anyone with more experience than me on the 1017 chassis have any thoughts (other than "Better you than me, pal!" ) Is this even feasible, or am I wishful thinking?

And does anyone know of any graveyards/burial-grounds of bagged old 1017s in Europe anywhere? Or are they actually rare like hen's teeth?

Thanks in advance,

Tony.

 

[Sitec]

Hi Tony.

I'd think it would be very possible... There's a few things you'd have to check against someone with a 4WD, and there's a few things you'd have to have made up. Firstly, check the front spring center to center width (center of axle locating pin to center of axle locating pin). The lighter MK trucks had the front springs on the outside of the chassis and the heavier SK trucks had the front springs directly under the chassis rails. This gave the option of the lighter standard axle, or the seriously heavy HL7 hub reduction axle. I'm assuming the 1017 you are looking at would be like our 1222a and have the front springs on the outside of the rails and would require the lighter axle. The transfer case is a simple center mount unit, so it'd only be a case of mounting it and then making up the three prop shafts. The front axle would have to be found your side of the water or in Europe, as theyre handed and I'm guessing you'd need one to suit a LHD vehicle. I know of a Mercedes wrecker here in Adelaide Australia who has the front axle and a transfer box, but the axle is to suit a RHD vehicle. You'd also need to know the rear axle ratio as there were several options... This needs to match the front. The other thing you might need to do is add some spacer blocks between the rear axle and the springs, as there were two types of non driven front axle fitted. There was a straight axle option and a stepped axle option.

Once you have the truck, post some pics, and then go a hunting! If you need to compare spring measurements in the mean time, give me a shout!

 

[DiploStrat]

I would ask Rob Pickering's opinon.

Terry Lee Enterprises, La Junta, CO.

 

[tonydca]

Thanks for the replies -

Once you have the truck, post some pics, and then go a hunting!

I like your style! Appreciate the offer of advice further down the line.

It's a sizeable investment in more than just dollars for me to get the truck (it's nearly 5,000 kms away in another country from where I type this!), so I feel the need to think it through a bit more before I pull the trigger and drag it home only to find I've bit off way more than I can chew.

I may have access to a local Heavy Truck shop that'll cut me a deal on swapping in/out the heavy stuff if I bring the truck and drop-ship them the parts (axles/Xcase/shafts) as long as it is wrenching and not welding/fabbing.

So I'd likely need to find a wrecker or similar in Germany that'd strip out and palletize the parts or see if I can find a shipper that'll consolidate them into a seacan that's on its way to N.America already. I think that'll be my biggest challenge.

I would ask Rob Pickering's opinon.

Thanks for the lead - I'll drop 'em a line.

I've also looked over at the German LN truck forum for background info, but no luck so far.

 

[christopher p weinberger]

There is way more benefits in factory 4x4 then can be placed on paper. Conversion will always haunt you in an expedition vehicle. 1017 4x4s are available, look harder and longer it will be worth it. Be more open to other German 4x4 truck options as needed.
Look at how many successfully converted 4x4 MB trucks are in the “in progress adventures” part of this forum and that will answer your question

 

[Sitec]

The good thing is you are looking into it and asking the questions before starting. When I was looking for our truck, what I wanted was very hard to find here in Australia. I wanted the later MK/SK cab, I wanted 4x4, I wanted hub reduction axles, I wanted 4.3m wheelbase and decent power etc etc. The first truck I looked at was very local and a late 6x4 with the right cab and a 340hp V6... However it had Freightliner axles (Australian spec option) and I contemplated turning it into a 4x4. Glad I didn't! The second truck I looked at was an ex runway sweeper truck out of Germany. It had the cab, the axles, and the wheelbase I wanted but was LHD! I looked into converting it but the cost started to spiral! The third one I found was a very tired 6x6 NG in Queensland over 2000 km away... I contemplated grafting the later cab onto it and loosing an axle... It was cheap and I had the flight booked to go buy it!! I knwe it wasn't ideal, but I was set that I wanted this truck! Purely by chance I was surfing the net a few days before taking off to Queensland and the truck we now own popped up. Luckily I was able to change the flights (and loose a few hunderd $$) and flew to New South Wales instead with a trade plate under my arm! This was the nearest I was going to get to what I wanted. Later cab, 4.3m wheelbase, 1 hub reduction axle and RHD! After some haggling the deal was done and I was driving 'my' truck home! Even though I've only done a few cosmetic things to get it how I wanted it, it looks so different to the day I bought it! Here was collection day about 4 years ago. The lad checking the rear wheel nuts in the pic said to me as I drove out that he'd learnt more in the 2 hours we spent properly checking the truck over before I drove it home than he had in the year he'd worked for the seller!



Here is the same truck 6 months ago. Different wheels, 40mm of lift on the front axle, 75mm of lift on the cab and different arches (all sourced from a cheap donor truck I bought), and some cover plates and a bit of fancy metalwork to make the front axle match the rear (don't ask!). It now looks how I want it and the build is well under way!



If you have the patience, something will present itself... Good luck in your quest, and post pics of what you find, look at and consider. It all forms part of your build story...

 

[Joe917]

Money spent getting the chassis you want is well worth it. Modifying the vehicle is very expensive and in North America almost every part you will need will be shipped from Europe. I would wait for a 917/1017 etc. 4x4. Getting a chassis that is already in North America is a huge bonus but not worth it if it is the wrong chassis.

 

[tonydca]

There is way more benefits in factory 4x4 then can be placed on paper. Conversion will always haunt you in an expedition vehicle. 1017 4x4s are available, look harder and longer it will be worth it. Be more open to other German 4x4 truck options as needed.
Look at how many successfully converted 4x4 MB trucks are in the “in progress adventures” part of this forum and that will answer your question

Believe me - I understand the pitfalls of making a Franken-truck. But the relative scarcity/cost of MB1017 4x4s already in N.America or the cost/exercise in shipping one from Europe leaves me to at least wonder if the one I'm looking at has potential.

If I were talking about bolting, say, a MB1017 transmission/axles onto a GMC T5500 engine/body, I would be certifiably insane. But I'm talking about adding period-correct MB1017 parts into a MB1017 truck.

The fact that others have in the past successfully swapped axles to change gearing leads me to wonder how much more effort it is to add in the transfer case and the associated pneumatic switch block/lines.

I'm thinking (hoping? wishful thinking?) that there wouldn't be a whole bunch more to it than that.

Not sure if anyone with more experience on this chassis has more thoughts.

PS: All else fails, I suppose even a 2WD 1017 would make a nice little starter platform for an expedition vehicle if one's offroad ambitions were not too far beyond the gravel trail and forestry service road.

I recall reading on here somewhere that one dirty little truth we often overlook - much of true overlanding is on rough roads at worst, and 85% of all the roads/tracks in the world can be accessed by a determined driver in a VW bus...

 

[DiploStrat]

I would also chat with these folks: Mercedes Benz 1428AF, expedition truck conversion | Expedition Portal

 

[tonydca]

I would also chat with these folks: Mercedes Benz 1428AF, expedition truck conversion | Expedition Portal

4Wheel24 looks like a great bunch of folks - I found this Youtube series a while back where the owner of 4Wheel24 goes over a bewildering assortment of base vehicles from which an expedition vehicle can be made (in German, but auto-translate lets you get the gist of what's going on):

LKW Basisfahrzeug Vorstellungen - Herman unterwegs

Du willst ein Allrad Reisemobil aufbauen? Auf LKW Basis? Du findest hier eine wertvolle Infosammlung und LKW Vorstellungen als Artikel und in Videos!

herman-unterwegs.de

Beware: Have a few hours to waste down the rabbit hole before you start watching!

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I recall reading one here somewhere that one dirty little truth we often overlook - much of true overlanding is on rough roads at worst, and 85% of all the roads/tracks in the world can be accessed by a determined driver in a VW bus...

Most of the places you'll take a "built" expedition vehicle...the locals get to in a clapped out Camry...lol.

 

[Sitec]

Believe me - I understand the pitfalls of making a Franken-truck.


PS: All else fails, I suppose even a 2WD 1017 would make a nice little starter platform for an expedition vehicle if one's offroad ambitions were not too far beyond the gravel trail and forestry service road.

I recall reading on here somewhere that one dirty little truth we often overlook - much of true overlanding is on rough roads at worst

Franken Truck! I used to frequent an Australian Land Rover Owner forum and thats exactly what they called my last vehicle... All I did was put a Cummins 6Bt and ZF gearbox in my 101 Forward Control Land Rover! It was one of the best touring vehicles we had too! I covered 30000+ kms in that truck and the only thing that failed in that time was a starter relay!

Re 2WD trucks, I can vouch for that too! I drove a big part of Africa in a 4x2 Mercedes 1617. Standard 10:00 R 20 tyres, duals on the rear and theonly times we got bogged were because we were not concentrating or going somewhere we shouldnt! 'Archie' pictured below went everywhere. This was using sand ladders to get up a long hill leaving a campsite in Mozambique. Me at the wheel when I was a lot younger!



90% of our travels will be on black top or good Cat 1 dirt roads. The other 10% will be on tracks like the one pictured above. I'm treating our 4X4 as a 'nice to have' and will only engage it when we need too, and or to get me back out of a hole! A 4x2 Merc 1017 with a straight front axle, slight suspension lift and some decent larger radial tyres will get you pretty well everywhere.

 

[charlieaarons]

Franken Truck! I used to frequent an Australian Land Rover Owner forum and thats exactly what they called my last vehicle... All I did was put a Cummins 6Bt and ZF gearbox in my 101 Forward Control Land Rover! It was one of the best touring vehicles we had too! I covered 30000+ kms in that truck and the only thing that failed in that time was a starter relay!

Re 2WD trucks, I can vouch for that too! I drove a big part of Africa in a 4x2 Mercedes 1617. Standard 10:00 R 20 tyres, duals on the rear and theonly times we got bogged were because we were not concentrating or going somewhere we shouldnt! 'Archie' pictured below went everywhere. This was using sand ladders to get up a long hill leaving a campsite in Mozambique. Me at the wheel when I was a lot younger!

View attachment 674592

90% of our travels will be on black top or good Cat 1 dirt roads. The other 10% will be on tracks like the one pictured above. I'm treating our 4X4 as a 'nice to have' and will only engage it when we need too, and or to get me back out of a hole! A 4x2 Merc 1017 with a straight front axle, slight suspension lift and some decent larger radial tyres will get you pretty well everywhere.

It’s the 1-2% where 4x2 isn’t enough that’ll get you. My wife and I were touring Southern Africa in 1993 with a stock FJ60 with roof tent. I wasn’t paying enough attention either. We were on an average unmade dirt road in the southern Okavango Delta area. Somehow got stuck in shallow mudhole. BTW I definitely know how to lock hubs and use transfer case in Landcruisers, 23 years of LC experience at that point. Opposing wheels were spinning - no lockers. I got out to dig. There were baboons shrieking in the nearby tree line and based on experiences that night and the next day I have no doubt a family of big kitties was evaluating the situation. Fortunately a guy in a Land Rover came by and gave us a pull.
There’s reasons I really like current camper with lockers and CTIS.

 

[tonydca]

But dont be put off by building a ”Frankentruck”. In N.Amerika, Pretty much all trucks out of a factory are ”Frankens” to some degree. They all can be optioned with different axels & brakes, transmission, engine, etc.
its that modular thing makes it easy.

There is a lot of truth in what you say.

My concern with a Franken-truck is that when the parts from one non-MB manufacturer don't quite line up with the spots in your MB vehicle where they need to go - now you need to drill new holes, fabri-cobble together adapter plates, mounting brackets, etc., etc., all of which are potentials for fun new failure points in the middle of nowhere (as alluded to I think by C. Weinberger above).

I'm betting that if I crawl under a 1980's 2WD MB 1017, there'll be a handy empty space with unused threaded bolt-holes that will conveniently be exactly the right size and place to perfectly mount a transfer case from a 4WD MB 1017. And I'm also hoping that the mounting holes for a front axle will be surprisingly close (i.e. exactly the same) between the 2WD and 4WD versions. Or if not, the needed ones will already be there, conveniently drilled and tapped by a long-since retired technician at MB in Germany.

Less Franken, more Truck.

At least, that's what I'm hoping

 

[DiploStrat]

Are you wedded to an old Mercedes Benz? (I can give you a lot of reasons why they are a bad choice.)

These folks are worth a call. ADV Mobil | Reserve Your Build | Howell, Michigan