FG buildup

[dhackney]

Where did you source the LP tanks?

Scott,

The LP tank came from:
Sleegers Engineering Inc.
980 Green Valley Road
London, Ontario, Canada
N6N 1E3
ph:519-685-7444
fx: 519-685-2882

Contact is:
Aaron Robbins

Sleegers has a very complete range of tanks for vehicle fuel applications and can custom make a tank to practically any spec. Excellent customer service. Very highly recommended.

We used model 11X11X28SEUW, which is a stock unit. The fill valve on this tank comes out of the side, which is a tight fit between the frame rails.

Sleegers can build this tank with the valves mounted in any position, but we couldn't wait for one to be built to our spec and had to take an off the shelf model. Locating the fill valve in a different position would have made it easier to implement.

For possible valve locations, see this page:
http://www.sleegers.on.ca/pt_valve_layout.shtml

Our "tanks" are actually one tank, with integrated tubes that connect the two cylinder components.

Our tank's specs are:
LP Capacity: 16 gallons / 60.57 liters
LP 80% Capacity: 12.8 gal / 48.46 liters
Tank weight: 110 lbs.
LP weight:
100% - 16 gallons / 60.57 liters = 68 lbs. / 30.91 kilos
80% - 12.8 gallons / 48.46 liters = 54 lbs. / 24.55 kilos

We are building an LP fill valve manifold with fill valves from all the regions of the world that we could identify and source. The fill valve manifold will be connected to the tank fill valve. This will enable us to fill wherever we are (hopefully) with a minimum of "they don't have an adapter for our tank" situations. The fill valves we have currently identified are:

• ACME / POL (ACME - US, Austria, Belgium, Germany, South America, South Africa, POL - other markets) these two types are combined in one valve - model 7647DC, source REGO)
• Bayonet (Holland, Spain, UK) - source Rotarex
• Dish (Italy, France, Portugal, Greece, Denmark, Poland, China) - source Rotarex

We are currently waiting for valve info on Korea, Thailand, etc.

The Rotarex valves are made in Luxembourg, of all places, and take 6-8 weeks for custom production. They can make them to match any output thread, i.e. NPT.

US contact for Rotarex is:
Western LP Tank, LLC
P.O. Box 1790
Peralta, NM 87042
(505) 869-1770
Scott Helmick

Again, excellent customer service. Very highly recommended.

Doug

 

[VikingVince]

Doug...the extensiveness of the research and info you've accumulated just on propane tanks and valves blows my mind!!...makes me realize the extent of preparations for a trip like your planning is MEGA more than I imagined:exclaim: thanks for taking the time to share the info

 

[dhackney]

the extensiveness of the research and info you've accumulated

I wish I felt better prepared, researched, etc. I felt I was very well researched on sailing, having a couple of years invested in it.

This 4x4 overland expedition arena is totally new to me. I've been drinking from the fire hose for a few months, but still feel very unimformed and underprepared. We are on such an aggressive timeline that as soon as I find what I think is a solution for a given system / challenge, I procure it and move on to the next one. The downside is that there may be a much better solution, lower cost, superior customer service & support, etc. right around the corner, but I will never find it. I don't even have the available bandwidth to properly research the available forums. We're going to do the best we can on this vehicle design and construction, get some professional 4x4, medical and survival training, get some language skills and head out. It will have to be good enough.

To do this properly, I'd recommend two years of research, reading, preparation, training, certification, planning, designing, vendor interaction, event attendance, etc. As an example, I read over 50 books on sailing, got certified to the highest levels, sailed across an ocean, visited countless industry events, looked at hundreds of boats, etc. to prepare for that endeavor. I won't be anywhere near that level of knowledge and experience when we leave for this overland expedition.

 

[VikingVince]

To do this properly, I'd recommend two years of research, reading, preparation, training, certification, planning, designing, vendor interaction, event attendance, etc. As an example, I read over 50 books on sailing, got certified to the highest levels, sailed across an ocean, visited countless industry events, looked at hundreds of boats, etc. to prepare for that endeavor. I won't be anywhere near that level of knowledge and experience when we leave for this overland expedition.

"two years of research...etc" WOW:exclaim:...that is quite sobering but obviously important for anyone contemplating a trip like yours. My guess is that you will be just fine:ylsmoke: If it's any consolation to your feeling less prepared for this trip, I would surmise that theoretically the land will be a little more forgiving than the sea...yes?

 

[dhackney]

theoretically the land will be a little more forgiving than the sea...yes?

That is a very intriguiging question. There is no doubt that the sea simply is. The sea will be calm or tumultuous whether you are there or not. The sea will have hurricanes, raging currents and towering waves whether you are there or not. So, in that regard, yes, it could be viewed as unforgiving. The sea demands and deserves ultimate respect.

On the other hand, if you make a trade winds passage, as most people do, and avoid the high lattitudes, the sea is a fairly known entity, with fairly predictable probabilities of wind, sea and weather. Coupled with modern communications and weather forcasting, there are some who make the case that there is simply no excuse for a modern sailor to ever be caught in truly bad, non-freak weather, wind and wave conditions.

In addition, modern blue-water sailboats are built and equipped so well that the sailor will usually give up long before the boat will. In the popular book and movie "The Perfect Storm" a delivery crew is rescued from their storm tossed sailboat off the Atlantic coast by heroic Coast Guard crewmen risking their lives to do so. Although some of the sailboat crew were convinced they were destined for certain death if they stayed with the boat, that same sailboat was found a few days later sailing along, unmanned, in perfectly good condition. This scenario is repeated more than a few times every year. If you keep them buttoned up and the bilge pumps working modern boats will survive most anything short of sailing directly into a hurricane.

The overland route forces you down paths of human commerce and well worn trails of human conquest, exploration and interaction. You move through towns, villages and cities filled with other humans. It's a very human interaction dominated experience, except in remote areas where you can travel for days without seeing anyone else. Compared to our overland travels by motorcycle, I found sailing more about you and the sea, you and nature.

So, more forgiving, I'm not sure. Taken to the extreme, ultimately, if you break on land, you need to be prepared with skills, knowledge, parts, tools, food and water. If you break on the water, you need the same. If you break catestrophically on land, you can walk out. If you break catestrophically on water, i.e. hit a submerged freight container and crush the hull, then you'll be in the dinghy hoping your EPIRB works. That's definately more unforgiving. But that's the absolute far end of the spectrum of potential outcomes. You have to make your own choice if the trade-offs are worth it to you and your goals.

In the end, sailing is a LOT safer than driving on US highways. Some people are overwhelmed by driving in Rome, India, Tokyo or narrow roads filled with monkeys, burros, elephants, camels, carts, kids and scooters loaded with families of eight but we've found them all manageable.

There are dangers everywhere and if you go out convinced the dangers will seek you out, that's probably what will happen. We've been fortunate and the few times we've had any problems they have been relatively trivial in the grand scheme of things, whether on the bike or boat.

 

[dhackney]

It's me and my silly questions again...

I've always said "there are no silly questions, only silly answers" ALL questions, observations, feedback, etc. are welcome and appreciated!

Won't the camper contact to the top edges of the garage frame when the 3-point frame travels. In the pictures it looks dangerously close.

The 3 point pivot frame is rigidly attached at the front of the camper base. There should be zero relative flex between the two at that point. We are allowing a few inches at the front of the garage for longitudinal camper flex. We don't know how much that camper flexes in real life, and don't want to cut it too close over the longitudinal span of the garage. This part of the project is seat of the pants engineering. All we have going for us is Mark's experience building factory team off-road race trucks from stock truck chassis. That has given him a feel for how much frame flex we'll get given the characteristics of this frame.

I'm sure you have your reasons, but...It would seem to me that you could save 60 to 80 lbs by just making bottom trays and front cabinet faces (with hatches) to fit under the sides of the camper, as opposed to fitting the spaces with steel saddle boxs.

Agreed on potential weight savings. I believe Mark made this choice due to timeline and ability to acheive a relatively weathersealed box versus the additional rigidity required in the support frame with a conformal design. The saddle boxes have inherent strength that would have had to be added to an open support frame.

Have you thought about putting fiberglass gratting for the floor of the battery box as opposed to metal?

No. We don't have readily available fiberglass fabrication skills on the team. We can make just about anything out of metal. If all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail...

are you concerned about the exaust pipe being a little close to your batterys?

Yes, we will be putting a heat shield there.

Your "doing" in months, what took me years of doing by trial and error.

Any success we achieve is due to the fact we stand on the shoulders of giants such as yourself. Thanks!

 

[VikingVince]

Doug...your response to my theoretical question was VERY good reading...obviously the musing and thoughts of an experienced adventurer and traveller. Your reflections could easily be part of a good book...I hope you plan to write one!!:wavey:

 

[dhackney]

I hope you plan to write one!!:wavey:

I've been avoiding that...

When you go into an experience with writing something about it in your mind it changes what and how you experience the moment. I guess it's the human version of the Hiesenberg Uncertainty Principal. It's the same with shooting. If I walk into a place and I'm pre-determined to shoot it, then my mind is consumed with absorbing the place and people and experiences as a photographer, looking for shots, lighting, mood, angles, etc. If I walk into a place and I'm predetermined to write about it, as if it were an assignment, then what and how I experience things is changed from what it would have been otherwise. I'm looking for a hook, a theme, an analogy, etc.

I much prefer to let my writing just happen, just percolate up in my head until I have to get it out or my head will explode.

If you are interested, there's lots of writing and photography at our main travel site.

Writing http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-writing.htm

Photography http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-photos.htm

I may compile some of it into a book when we get back. I'd rather do it after than during. During would change what and how we went about the whole thing.

I plan to continue to post short essays on what we are experiencing on our main travel site during this next 4x4 overland expedition chapter.

 

[dhackney]

We have seats...

Updated buildup photos at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm

 

[dhackney]

Updates to the project web site - http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/

1. Updated the weight worksheet.
2. Added downloadable XL file version of the weight worksheet.
3. Updated the resources page to include project components.
4. Updated project design illustrations, drawings & schematics

Previous updates
1. Added FG driveline specs
2. Added F series body builders drawings Part 1 & 2
3. Added extracted builder's drawings circuits of interest
4. Added Yokohama tire specs PDF
5. Added Michelin XZL specs PDF
6. Added Bigfoot 30C10.11FR floorplan
7. Added Bigfoot 30C10.11FR wall construction
8. Added Bigfoot 30C10.11FR specs
9. Added international LP fill valve info PDF
10. Added National Seating Sportster specs PDF
11. Added FG stock seats drawing PDF
12. Added project components by desc/location/connector
13. Added project procurement data (mfr, part #, sales, etc.)

 

[dhackney]

I never thought Freightliner Coronados were all that big anyway... :Wow1:

Updated photos in Album Eight at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm

 

[dhackney]

We have storage boxes...

Updated photos in album 9 & 10 at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm

.

 

[dhackney]

Camper mounted. Packed and ready to depart tomorrow AM for an Alpha Test of the base configuration.

There's a few shots of this configuration in album 11 at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm

 

[bigreen505]

Congratulations, it looks like a truck! And a little be bigger than a Land Cruiser too. You will hae to let us know how it all shakes out.

 

[Scott Brady]

Awesome Doug!

I am like a school kid waiting to see this thing in person. :victory: