Firefly Oasis carbon foam AGM battery

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Firefly Oasis Battery - Carbon Foam AGM

The only Carbon-foam AGM battery is the Firefly Oasis Battery. Now available for marine applications, it is capable of deeper discharges and longer life

oceanplanetenergy.com

Given the performance for the price, the Firefly seems ideal for a house battery, but I didn't find much mention of it on ExPo. Are there some downsides to carbon foam AGM technology? Compared to other lead acid batteries at this price point, it looks like a much better option.

 

[john61ct]

Three downsides.

First is they are AGM, so overall poor value per Ah per year, compared to FLA. Also compared to an optimal LFP if it lasted for decades.

Their USP is tolerance of PSOC abuse. So if you really can't use FLA **and** are truly unable to get the bank back to true 100% Full for weeks at a time, they may be worth the $5+ per Ah @12V.

However you do need to run their "capacity restore protocol" cycles every so often, ideally a few times a month if possible.

They also are not as quickly murdered if brought down to 80% occasionally, but lifespan vs avg DoD curve relationship remains.

Last con is you must plan ahead, they are often backordered by six months or more, especially the G31.

Do not buy outside Bruce's distribution network to try to skip the queue.

 

[john61ct]

If you do not need their unique attributes, Lifeline, Odyssey and Northstar are the top AGM makers for true deep cycling usage.

Call the mfg for dealers local to you so you can avoid paying for shipping lead.

All the above really only applies to the North American market.

 

[shade]

I'm not concerned about the backorder issue with Firefly. I've gotten along with a single G31 AGM for years, so waiting a few months for another battery isn't a problem.

I don't think PSOC is a big concern for me, either. The battery will be installed in a daily driver, with full time solar charging available.

I'm most interested in the DoD offered by Firefly. Being able to have more useable capacity in the same space would be nice. I probably wouldn't need to go past 50% often, but having the option would be nice for extended time away from the truck to run a fridge.

 

[DaveInDenver]

There is evidence to believe the claims about carbon foam used in lead acid. Chemically the reaction is working like any other AGM. They AFAIK are using the foam to increase the porosity of the grid plates, which is a legitimate improvement. Surface area and porosity are critical to lead acid function.

Realizing the benefits does mean charging them will take some care. They use the same temperature coefficient as Odyssy (24 mV/°C) and you should adhere to it. They do not get and really can't benefit from an indefinite float above 13.4V (e.g. they are not drop-in for a FLA or traditional AGM). You have to run bulk and absorption at 14.4V up to their cut-off current (1.5A) and then shut off.

The way to describe them seems to me to call them an improved Odyssey. Similar charge and discharge characteristics and a very similar reconditioning process, other than the lack of float.

 

[john61ct]

Well they are a fine battery, afraid the worth-the-extra-money question comes down to the buyer's judgement.

Personally spending the same money going to a bigger Lifeline bank is a better investment, since the lower avg DoD can double or triple lifespan.

But if space/weight are big factors, and the 80% DoD events are more frequent than a few times a year, FF would be a good way to go. Even those top-three other makes would lose a lot more lifetime cycles doing so.

Be sure to use a good SoC BM so you're sure to avoid going deeper, under heavy loads voltage will be a very inaccurate indicator of just how deep you're going.

With $1/Ah FLA though, you can just buy a new set every few years and not need to watch things as meticulously. Or maybe they last over a decade (70% SoH EoL) even with some abuse. . .

 

[john61ct]

If you literally mean going to 70% rarely, 60% once in a while, really is NBD, just stick to the other three you'll be fine.

Not like there's anything magic about 50%, look at any maker's curve it's all continuous greyscale judgment call.

Meticulous care getting to true 100% as per endAmps will "add" a lot of cycles back, maybe 5% of setups get there regularly even with chargers costing thousands, default settings guarantee premature infloatulation and people fear overcharging too much

and it does make a big difference.

 

[shade]

If you literally mean going to 70% rarely, 60% once in a while, really is NBD, just stick to the other three you'll be fine.

Not like there's anything magic about 50%, look at any maker's curve it's all continuous greyscale judgment call.

Meticulous care getting to true 100% as per endAmps will "add" a lot of cycles back, maybe 5% of setups get there regularly even with chargers costing thousands, default settings guarantee premature infloatulation and people fear overcharging too much

and it does make a big difference.

With solar charging & daily driving, I can get an SLA battery back to 100%, and that's probably why I'll go with a traditional SLA this time around. I already have a CTEK system setting on the shelf, so using it with a viable, low cost battery chemistry would make more sense than starting from scratch.

Still, I like learning about what else is available. Within the next ten years, I'll be making a move to a more substantial camping system, and having more power will be part of that plan. Becoming better versed in off-grid power systems now will help guide me later on, and I appreciate all of your opinions.

 

[john61ct]

Using a battery for deep cycling that is not specifically designed for that will not be saving any money over time.

Yes less upfront maybe, but need replacing after just a few hundred cycles.

 

[shade]

Using a battery for deep cycling that is not specifically designed for that will not be saving any money over time.

Yes less upfront maybe, but need replacing after just a few hundred cycles.

I was considering a Lifeline GPL-31T or something similar, not a Walmart starting battery. From what I recall of Maine Sail's investigation of marine batteries, there aren't any true deep cycle batteries available in a 12V/G31 form factor, but I don't have the space or need for a pair of 6V batteries.

I guess I could use the two battery spaces under the hood for a pair of GC2 batteries, but it seems like a bad idea to complicate the starting battery by combining the two. At least with separate 12V start & house batteries, if one fails, the other can stand alone.

 

[luthj]

If you have the weight and space, 6V x2 GC2 batteries should have no issue starting your truck. They are slightly less reliable, in that you have 2 battery cases to crack. Golf carts beat the crap out of batteries, so they are usually quite robust. You would need a meaty cross-over cables to link them together.

 

[shade]

If you have the weight and space, 6V x2 GC2 batteries should have no issue starting your truck. They are slightly less reliable, in that you have 2 battery cases to crack. Golf carts beat the crap out of batteries, so they are usually quite robust. You would need a meaty cross-over cables to link them together.

2xGC2 batteries would easily start my truck, but the loss of redundancy is a big concern. I might be able to run my truck off of my jump pack, but I'd rather be able change over to a second 12V battery if the start battery died through discharge or physical damage.

 

[dwh]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=12v+golf+cart+battery&t=fpas&ia=shopping

 

[shade]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=12v+golf+cart+battery&t=fpas&ia=shopping

Interesting options here. I need to do some measuring.

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[luthj]

You are going to give up some of the 6v cycle life on the 12v units. Mostly due to thinner plates. Still a good size though I think.