fullsize/ifs/off-road; can you have all 3 at once?

HARDTRAILZ

Certified
Not full-size, but GM IFS. 33's and it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Tore the boot on a cv and replaced some maintenence items, but other than that it performs flawlessly. I tend to wheel with newer JK's or other Trailblazers, but the big thing is....people are impressed and often stop to know how I got somewhere or what it takes to build one. It is a different rig with plenty of capability, lots of room, cheap parts, and a strong frame, motor, and tranny.

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cocco78

Adventurer
An experiment that I've wanted to do for some time: Roll a coil spring on a sheet with a thin layer of paint on it, then put it into a press and compress it. Have a look at what that line of paint does.

The problem with t-bars is not the bar itself. The problem with t-bars is the arc of motion of the lever arm. Since the effective lever length is always perpendicular to the direction of the force (gravity in this case) the lever length changes radically through the travel range of the suspension. This is why "cranked" t-bars ride rougher. The bar's rate hasn't changed, but the effective lever length is significantly shorter because the control arm is at a significantly different angle.

:victory:

Yes, so the force the trucks weight exerts on the torsion bar no longer affects the rotation of T-bar as it did before the bars were re-indexed, in the same scenario. So after re-indexing the torsion bar would lowering the rear mount of the t-bars a small bit help with the ride, that would get the lever arm back to perp with gravity? That seems easy enough to do. You would probably want to lower the frame mount of the lower A arm as well to get it back to a stock angle, I know the steeper angle of the A-arms make a rougher ride as well...

There are actually a few desert trucks running torsion bar rear suspensions, they are pretty wild. Change the length of the lever arm, and the torsion bar diameter and length until you find a length combo that gives you the amount of suspension travel desired...

Good discussion, I like physics and 4 wheeling :ylsmoke:
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
The fixed end isn't the problem. It is the angle of the control arm that is attached to the t-bar relative to ground that is the problem.

Any deviation from the stock lay-out will be a compromise. Can lengthen the arm to bring the lever length back to stock while at a steeper angle, but then the lever length will be much longer part-way through the compression travel which will result in falling spring rate. To offset this you can increase the size of the bar, but then the ride will be rougher due to the higher initial spring rate.

Brian Kudela designed and built a t-bar system for the rear of one of the McPherson trucks that used a heavy strap of some sort between the bar and the suspension. That allowed him to use a nautilus shaped cam rather than a lever. This allowed him to design what the spring rate change was rather than having to accept what the lever length and clocking forced it to be. I don't know why that design didn't catch on. Too expensive? Too complex? Folks didn't understand what it did? Who knows.
 
i didn't mean to start a scientific debate. you guys mkinda lost me at hooke's law!

it sounds liek to me if i apay attention to the situation and watch the right foot i'll be ok. i tend to drive on the cautious side any way so i think it will work out. thanks to everyone for the advice.

hardtrailz; nice trail blazer. i'm goin to show my dad to give him some ideas.

thanks again
 

KLAKEBRONCO

Adventurer
I'm just tossing this out there....

If you are installing a lift kit, couldn't you install all of the 3/4 ton parts at the same time?


If you can make it work on the frame, all the mounting points are then on the lift kit...You would just have to pick up the 3/4 ton front end parts at a pick n pull yard or something.
 
all i'm putting on is trosion bar keys int rehfront and spacers in teh rear. not a tue lift kit. i'll probably end up with 3"of lift at the most.

it seems as thought the 3/4 ton stuff has some differences based on teh resaerch i have done. i think the general thinking is if you goint o go threw that much trouble, then you might as well go SAS
 

KLAKEBRONCO

Adventurer
A few years ago there was a 2.5" lift that was a drop bracket style kit. Not just cranked bars. If you could find one of those that would be nice. Get the lift without cranking the piss out of the bars.

Just a thought.
 

WildBill

Observer
A few years ago there was a 2.5" lift that was a drop bracket style kit. Not just cranked bars. If you could find one of those that would be nice. Get the lift without cranking the piss out of the bars.

Just a thought.

agreed. cranking the t-bars takes away from up travel.
 

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