Gauges....Which ones do we really need?

[H2O_Doc]

I'm pretty sure there is a man-law that says you can't have too many gauges. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what they do, so long as they move at some point and you can tap them in a panic only to find that your flux capacitor is, in fact, not melting down.

If I could swing it, my dash would look like something out of the Millenium Falcon. Or maybe the following would look good in the Xterra:

 

[ntsqd]

I knew going in that mine was not the popular opinion. You can tell how much that bothers me.

I've never seen anything that would indicate that OE gauges are any more or less accurate than anything from the aftermarket. What about VDO who sells in both markets?

Characteristically a single point switch is more accurate than a range sender for a gauge since it only is responsible for one point in the whole operating range. If you choose the switch to be the value that you want to be alerted at, then that is what it will do. A switch may have some variance from it's advertised set point that is a product of mass production, but it will consistently switch at that set point.

The road race cars that I was employed at one time to work on without exception only had 3 gauges. Oil pressure, water temperature, and a tach. All three where installed such that the ideal reading had the needle pointing straight up. If the needle wasn't pointing straight up then there was a problem. One of the cars had a piece of black electrical tape on the gauge faces. When the orange needle was in the normal range it was not even visible. How to turn a gauge into a light.

I'm quite sure that you can have too many gauges. This guy is a prime offender:

 

[DBS311]

Ok, if your dash looks like that, then I agree with you. There is simply way too much to pay attention to there. Looks like it's in an EB, correct?

At least we agree on the main gauges......water temp and oil pressure (and tach if you don't have it). The only other must have for me is the tranny temp gauge. In my FJ62, when you see the "hot light" come on for the tranny, it's already toast.

 

[ntsqd]

It is an EB spotted at Moab. Broncofix has it in their gallery somewhere.

I'll venture that the issue with the trans light is not the light or the switch, but the switch point chosen for the sender. I'd look into replacing it with a switch that turns on the light at the point when you want to take notice of what the temperature is. VDO lists a huge range of temperture switches and plugging their p/n's into Summit usually yields a price. May also be able to cross it into a NAPA number as they catalog another set of wide ranging temperature set point switches.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

ntsqd...........


Instead of continuing to HiJack my Thread...........





Why don't you start your Own Thread Titled,

"Gauges.......Why we don't need them and they are a waste of time and money....and don't even help you!!".:jump:






.

 

[lowenbrau]

I watch the three in the top cluster regularly. Boost, Pyro and water temp. I can easily push any of them into a zone where engine damage is imminent. I would not want to try to rely on idjit lights. As far as the factory gauges go. My factory H2O temp gauge is happily in the middle at 220F. I haven't pushed it to see just how hot before it gets to the red.

I use Autometer because they have 24 volt gauges and are cheap and easy to find. They are not, however, the best gauges out there. Pyros seem to fail about every 24 months. Someday I'll settle on my dash layout and buy a set from Westach because their stuff is all custom you can put up to four needles in a gauge and calibrate them so your ideal operating range is in the center of each as was mentioned earlier.

 

[MuddyMudskipper]

Gauges....Which ones do we really need?

I want to ad some gauges to my 4Runner so I can really know whats going on with my engine, etc.

Which gauges do you favor and why?
........ (oil pressure/oil temp/water temp/trans temp/amps/volts/girlfriend crabb-O-meter!.....hehe just checking if you are really reading all of this! )............etc.

Which of these do we really need to help us watch and protect our investment?

What brand is known for being a good value, yet reliable? (what do you use?)

Is "Liquid Filled" a good choice for better reliability for off road?

Mounting locations? I like the Pillar mount, but I'm having trouble finding a source for these.

I've been searching on the net tonight and found a brand called "Auto Meter". They have several styles to choose from. I kind of like their "Pro Comp" and "Carbon Fiber" Styles.

......any thoughts?

I've used Autometer (ProComp for race car SportComp for street/track cars) and VDO meters in a few of my cars and have had no issues with either. I'd say get whatever meters fit your budget and that you feel are necessary to give you piece of mind.

ProComps are probaby overkill for your application and I can't imagine that the vibration your truck encounters warrants the use of a liquid filled guage (great for Outlaw cars). The SportComp or even the AutoGage (by Autometer) meters would probably fit the bill nicely for your intended purpose.

For fuel pressure, I used an electronic gauge because it's not the best idea to have a fuel line coming into the cabin. The same can be said for oil pressure.

Most organized racing bodies won't let you pass tech with a mechanical fuel gauge running into the cab of the vehicle. For this reason Autometer makes the High Pressure Isolator (#5282). This isolator is compatible with with gasoline, oil, and antifreeze, but cannot be used with alcohol or nitro-methane fuels. As the name implies, the part isolates potentially harmful liquids to outside of the cab while maintaining that accuracy of a mechanical meter.

Autometer also sells the mech f/p meters with the isolator as a kit. .

 

[Harald Hansen]

Are mechanical gauges even worthwhile anymore? I just have a hard time imagining that modern electronic gauges offer less precision than a mechanical gauge. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Antichrist]

No. A light with the correctly chosen sender value, will call your otherwise non-existent attention to the problem.

hmmm. Let's use water temp as an example.
Let's say your normal temp is 200 degrees.
Your engine damage temp is 400 degrees.
Your warning light comes on at 300 degrees.
You're driving along and your warning light comes on.
Does that mean your temp has slowly risen due to load and has stabalized at 305 degrees? Or that it has suddenly pegged at 450 degrees?
So with a light it's a crap shoot whether it's safe to keep driving or not.

If someone wants to operate by guesswork, I won't tell them not to. I personally don't like to.

 

[ntsqd]

hmmm. Let's use water temp as an example.
Let's say your normal temp is 200 degrees.
Your engine damage temp is 400 degrees.
Your warning light comes on at 300 degrees.
You're driving along and your warning light comes on.
Does that mean your temp has slowly risen due to load and has stabalized at 305 degrees? Or that it has suddenly pegged at 450 degrees?
So with a light it's a crap shoot whether it's safe to keep driving or not.

If someone wants to operate by guesswork, I won't tell them not to. I personally don't like to.

If my normal operating temp is 200* then the light switch would be chosen to come on between 210* and 215* The whole point of a light is to actively indicate that something isn't right as early as possible. Anyone who choses a coolant temp switch to come on at 300* (F?) is very poorly informed.

I never said that gauges don't have some value. I said that they aren't consistently accurate, don't trust their numbers unless calibrated annually. I said that it is an exceptional driver who will always catch the onset of a problem every time by only using gauges.

A light is much more pro-active in alerting the driver to a problem.

 

[Antichrist]

If my normal operating temp is 200* then the light switch would be chosen to come on between 210* and 215* The whole point of a light is to actively indicate that something isn't right as early as possible. Anyone who choses a coolant temp switch to come on at 300* (F?) is very poorly informed.

Those were even number examples for easier comprehension of the point. The actual temperature is entirely irrelevant to the issue.

I never said that gauges don't have some value.

I don't really think gauges are all that great of an idea.

 

[Spikepretorius]

In my current diesel truck I have an aviation type EGT gauge fitted with a programmable warning circuit which I've wired to a light. The light come on when the temperature get's within 50degrees of my self imposed maximum.
Best of both worlds. The light draws my attention BEFORE there's a problem if I've been slacking and not paying attention to the gauge.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I think that's the way to go as well. I wish all gauges had a warning light you could program, because both sides of this argument are very valid. The last trackday I was at, I completely lost boost control. I was way too busy driving to see that my A pillar mounted boost gauge was indicating a problem. And it manifested itself very quickly. I realized the problem only when boost go so high that the engine management shut the party down because the boost pressure was off the scale of the MAP sensor. I was very lucky the engine didn't grenade.

Anybody could tisk tisk about my not checking the gauges, but I'd suggest those people have never driven a car at maximum effort on track.

All of this discussion about what racecars do ignores the practice used by modern professional race cars who have enough money to spend on the best equipment. They now employ digital dashboards, which are programmable to show only engine RPM normally. They monitor all the engine functions and if something is out of range, they will flash an alarm and display the relevant value. This is a high-tech example of the dual warning system.

At the very highest levels, there isn't any display at all, but race engineers are in the pits monitoring things through telemetry and just relay any important info to the driver via radio.

The point being, even the very best drivers in the world have found it impossible to monitor gauges properly.

 

[Carlyle]

I have a total of seven gauges in my truck and would have to say most of them are valuable. EGT, boost press, oil pres, fuel pres, oil temp, tran temp & volts. I look at EGT and boost the most and the boost gauge let me know of an imminent turbo failure and I was able to get back to town. Fuel pres is critical, especially on this 6.0 diesel... Volts will tell you when your alternator is acting up. The rest are self explanatory and I'm glad I have them. I don't constantly look at them, but after 100,000 miles I can glance quickly and know all is well or not. For any type of expedition travel off the beaten path, gauges are essential as factory ones are no more than idiot lights that come on too late.

 

[Spikepretorius]

Consider using aviation gauges. There's quite a range to choose from and many of them are great for vehicles.
My TC1 for example can work with up to four sensors. The only downside is that the more sensors you add the smaller the display becomes.

Check this site for example.
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/
Under "smart singles" my EGT gauge is the TC1. I see they have a new range of Infinity singles as well.
Picture yourself with a nice bank of those beauties plonked on your dash. RayBans optional.