Gladiator Pop-Up Pass Through Camper Build
- Thread starter Mules
- Start date
Mules
Well-known member
Well I tried to run my Diesel Heater in -10F temperatures in St. Louis last week, but my Pecron 600LPF doesn't work below freezing temperatures. So here's my fix for when my Pecron Lithium Power supply is frozen.
I installed a bypass switch to my truck's cigarette lighter, so that it stay's powered even when the engine is off. Now if my Lithium Power is frozen, I can just run my Diesel Heater off my Gladiator's starter battery. I just have to make sure that I switch over to my Lithium Power once it is warmed up. Using my truck battery for the heater is just a backup, as I don't want to run it dry.
I installed a bypass switch to my truck's cigarette lighter, so that it stay's powered even when the engine is off. Now if my Lithium Power is frozen, I can just run my Diesel Heater off my Gladiator's starter battery. I just have to make sure that I switch over to my Lithium Power once it is warmed up. Using my truck battery for the heater is just a backup, as I don't want to run it dry.
Dave in AZ
Active member
Nice solution. I put mine in the cab while driving last week, then moved it to camper when I parked. Bit of lugging but worked ok. Your pecron goes to -4f, a pretty good way below freezing, but you unfortunately saw -10
I'm thinking about putting a small AGM back there, to get diesel started, but still thinking about it's charging. Your way is probably easier, and I think you already had a dc cable run to rear hey?
Mules
Well-known member
Leaving your power supply in the cab might be a very good option. I bought this Cigarette Lighter extension cord to run the fridge, 12 volt pan, or diesel heater from the cab's Cigarette Lighter. It's handy when I don't want to bring the power supply or when it is too cold.Nice solution. I put mine in the cab while driving last week, then moved it to camper when I parked. Bit of lugging but worked ok. Your pecron goes to -4f, a pretty good way below freezing, but you unfortunately saw -10
I'm thinking about putting a small AGM back there, to get diesel started, but still thinking about it's charging. Your way is probably easier, and I think you already had a dc cable run to rear hey?
Florida Native
Active member
Even cheaper you can do what I did with my old pop-up camper trailer (disclaimer: not my idea, but I did build/install one in my camper)…
Buy a cheap slop sink from your favorite big box home improvement store. Cut down the sides to fit it into a dinette bench seat (use some wood to reinforce the “floor” of the sink. Add appropriate drain hardware. I also created an expanding PVC rectangular shower curtain rod (would compact into a square shape that would fit inside the sink and then expand to be a reasonable size to shower in. Hang the PVC from the ceiling with carabiners and add two standard shower curtains. The rod and curtains fold up to fit into the basin when not being used. When the dinette seat is in place, there is no evidence of it except for a few D-rings in the ceiling.
-Mike
Mules
Well-known member
Nice idea! Love to see a pic if you have one.
Florida Native
Active member
Mules
Well-known member
Very cool shower setup. Thanks for the DIY pics!
I like how you put it under the seat, and use it for storage, when not in use.
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86scotty
Cynic
Mules, on your diesel heater sub-freezing problem, keep in mind that these heaters draw very little power when running, the big draw is at startup. I would rig up a permanent (secondary) cord from furnace to chassis battery and just run it from the chassis battery (as in all night) when needed but I would start the heater up while the truck is idling to combat the start up draw. After start these things draw a tiny bit of power only running the fan and fuel pump.
Here's a great video showing the behavior of a CDH through full cycle:
I wouldn't think the steady 1.5a or so draw would bring down a hot vehicle battery overnight, that's 1/2 to 1/3 of what a 12v fridge pulls.
Here's a great video showing the behavior of a CDH through full cycle:
I wouldn't think the steady 1.5a or so draw would bring down a hot vehicle battery overnight, that's 1/2 to 1/3 of what a 12v fridge pulls.
Dave in AZ
Active member
I'm going to completely disagree here, I'll go through it with actual power usages instead of instantaneous Amp measurements and show why...
I ran my Vevor diesel heater for 3 nights in a row, 13 to 16 hrs long, on back pati, hooked up to power station and multimeter.
Total power used for start up is 110W or so, for 6 minutes or less, so 1/10th an hour, so that is 11 Watt-hrs. Then running on setting 2 of 10, it is about 16-22W, say 20W. Running that for 12 hrs like you would for an evening plus sleep, would be 240 Watt-hrs, totalling 251 Watt-hrs.
At setting 6 of 10, total usage was about double, 495 Watt-hrs over 12 hrs.
A standard car battery, say a popular group24, is between 70 and 85 "Amp hrs" or Ah, at 12v nominal. You can only discharge a flooded lead acid car battery 50% without issues, and even at 50% discharge you will likely have problems starting car motor in the cold. So, a standard car battery has 40Ah usable at 12V, is 480 Watt-hrs. So running diesel heater overnight on 2 will drain a standard group24 car battery by 26%, or 52% of its usable power. Running heater at medium 6 setting will use 100% of the available power, about 50% of full battery.
That is too risky for me, in say 0 F weather, I want my engine to start the next day!
Notice how I used Watt-hrs up above, instead of Amps? I'm gonna be pedantic, I see people use incorrect units all the time talking about batteries and it just confuses things. So, I will point out that you don't discuss battery power usage, battery drain, or a battery's ability to handle a load overnight, using the current! Or the units current is measured in, Amps. Current or amperage are instantaneous measurements, and don't tell how much stored power was used nor how much a battery gets drained. And if you use Amps without ever saying what the voltage of your battery is, it's even worse. Instantaneous power is better, which is Watts or Amps x Volts, but even that is still not the correct unit.
The correct parameter is power usage, Measured in Watt-hrs. Battery power is measures in Watt-hrs. If you divide that by battery voltage, you get Amp-hrs, a much worse unit often used to label batteries because it is easily manipulated for marketing purposes to make a battery sound bigger. They never say if they used 12.8v for lead acid full battery, or 11.8 near bottom of its charge, or 13.8 for lithium etc, and of course they pick the lowest voltage they can get away with for marketing.
You can see how using Amps to discuss power usage causes mistakes in the comment above that diesel heater is using 1/2 to 1/3 of what dc fridge is "pulling". This in fact is not true... yes, a dc fridge will pull 40W when it is running, but the compressor only runs for short periods--again, why you measure power use over time, not instantaneous. So my dc fridge pulls 40W running, but when cold only runs for a few minutes an hour. Total usage over 12 hrs was 84 Watt-hrs, which is just 1/3 of what the diesel heater uses on setting 2! By looking at Amps, user above got mistaken idea a fridge used 9x that much power, and 3x what heater used, when it is actually the complete reverse. Heater on medium 6 setting uses 5.9 times as much power as fridge.
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Mules
Well-known member
Boy this cold winter sure stirred up the Lithium vs Lead battery debate. There were a lot upset Tesla owners this winter with cars that wouldn't run.
I guess I have the best of both worlds. I have a Lithium Power supply for most of my camping and a Lead Acid battery in my truck for backup. I wish my Lead acid had a % power left like my Lithium power supply has. If I knew how much juice was left in the lead acid battery, I might push it further.
I guess I have the best of both worlds. I have a Lithium Power supply for most of my camping and a Lead Acid battery in my truck for backup. I wish my Lead acid had a % power left like my Lithium power supply has. If I knew how much juice was left in the lead acid battery, I might push it further.
Dave in AZ
Active member
You might find this interesting then, guy just posted it today. They went from dual battery, to solar gen, now to a single combo 135Ah Lifepo4. His results...
86scotty
Cynic
@Dave in AZ. I concur and was hoping someone like you would come along with a lot more specific knowledge. I guess I've gotten spoiled with big battery banks and don't think about just living with a single chassis battery in anything anymore.
Great info.
Great info.
Mules
Well-known member
I've been following Dakota and Antigravity Car Starter batteries for a few years. I keep thinking about replacing my stock Jeep Gladiator battery with a Lithium battery to cut a lot of weight and increase the capacity. Also I could get rid of the power supply and just run the camper off the Starter Battery. They sound awesome!
Everything sounds great, and both companies have a lot of experience in automotive and marine applications. My only holdup is below freezing operation/charging. I keep coming across information like below:
I ran my Pecron Lithium power supply at 10 degrees F, but it discharged to 0% power within 10 minutes. Also, it would not charge below 32F. I suspect that these batteries will discharge below 32F, and have enough juice to start a truck, but they have very limited capacity below 32F and won't charge until they warm up to 32F.
If anyone has experience using Lithium batteries for extended periods below 32F, please chime in!! I am very curious how well they work below freezing.
Everything sounds great, and both companies have a lot of experience in automotive and marine applications. My only holdup is below freezing operation/charging. I keep coming across information like below:
I ran my Pecron Lithium power supply at 10 degrees F, but it discharged to 0% power within 10 minutes. Also, it would not charge below 32F. I suspect that these batteries will discharge below 32F, and have enough juice to start a truck, but they have very limited capacity below 32F and won't charge until they warm up to 32F.
If anyone has experience using Lithium batteries for extended periods below 32F, please chime in!! I am very curious how well they work below freezing.
ITTOG
Well-known member
There is a reason people get stranded in Tesla's. They work when they pull out of the garage but do not charge during the cold drive to work and definitely don't start after sitting in the cold. Don't do it.
I wonder if anyone has tried running one that heats itself yet?