GM fan clutch

[Daryl]

It really depends on the part.

Yes, it does. To begin with anything that is a spinning assembly is right out. Fan clutches as mentioned, alternators, starters, water pumps.

 

[Antichrist]

Well, like I said, I've used a number of the Imperial clutches without issue, or early failure. The longest for going on 100,000 miles.

 

[David Harris]

Yes, it does. To begin with anything that is a spinning assembly is right out. Fan clutches as mentioned, alternators, starters, water pumps.

Overgeneralizing here, aren't we. . . .? What constitutes a cheap, chain store part? Got a hard and fast rule on that? Don't think so. . . Some of the parts you buy from the chains are made by the same companies that make the factory parts. Bosch, Delco, Beck-Arnley, etc. . . Besides, being "Genuine" doesn't keep a lot of the factory parts on cars from failing early does it? Those Imperial clutches are fine in my experience. They're made by Hayden, which is an old and respected maker of fan clutches.

David

 

[Daryl]

Overgeneralizing here, aren't we. . . .? What constitutes a cheap, chain store part? Got a hard and fast rule on that? Don't think so.

And you're so sure that you're ready to answer for me? Or did you just prefer that I didn't?

Because, yes....I do have a general rule: if it's the cheapest version of an assembly with bearings in it that you are buying at AutoZone, Advance Auto or any of the national discount chains it has a much greater likelihood for failing prematurely than a quality part. When you deal with enough kinds of cars for long enough you start to see these very obvious patterns.

Some of the parts you buy from the chains are made by the same companies that make the factory parts. Bosch, Delco, Beck-Arnley, etc.

Now you're betraying your ignorance of the parts business. First of all, the cheap stuff is almost always a rebuild. It's quality depends a lot more on who rebuilt it and how rather than who originally manufactured it. In addition, not everything coming out of the same factory or rebuild shop is of the same quality. Sorry to break it to you, but things are built to a price point and most manufacturers are happy to built to any reasonable point you choose if you can place large enough orders. For the national chains it's often "as cheap as possible" as their market is to home mechanics where they compete on price, not quality.

If you're happy with your purchases then by all means keep doing what you're doing. But in an open discussion like this you shouldn't get your panties twisted when someone brings inconvenient facts and their own experience and opinions to the table. Your points would be much better taken and replies to you not so sharply worded if you didn't go on the offensive as well. This is a general life tip I'll throw in for free.

 

[JeremyT101]

In either case gents, as the man says, it comes down to dollars. So at 150$ + shipping/duty so thats like another 60$ easy for me. It would make sense to go through what almost 5 GM fan clutches for the price of the rover one. Heck you could even buy one and carry a spare for less then half of what it costs to get a 'good' one. That seems to be the ticket.

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ERR3443.cfm

 

[Antichrist]

In either case gents, as the man says, it comes down to dollars. So at 150$ + shipping/duty so thats like another 60$ easy for me. It would make sense to go through what almost 5 GM fan clutches for the price of the rover one. Heck you could even buy one and carry a spare for less then half of what it costs to get a 'good' one. That seems to be the ticket.

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ERR3443.cfm

For $150 that's likely not Genuine since they are over £150, or about $235 FOB UK.

 

[David Harris]

But in an open discussion like this you shouldn't get your panties twisted when someone brings inconvenient facts and their own experience and opinions to the table. Your points would be much better taken and replies to you not so sharply worded if you didn't go on the offensive as well. This is a general life tip I'll throw in for free.

Daryl. . . it's quite clear from your response who has their panties twisted. I just think extremely broad generalizations are the wrong way to go on most things, and on something as varied as auto parts, this is definitely the case. If you want to talk specific parts that's fine. . . You were talking about where you buy parts in general. So, where do you recommend we buy parts. . . ? What is the "real" parts store you mentioned (where all professionals buy their parts)?

BTW: I understand what you mean about the cheap bearings in the lowest line. I recently looked at a Chinese axle bearing set for a Chevy 12 bolt at Advance, and the cages were made out of plastic. . . Didn't know there was such a thing until then. . . On the other hand I bought wheel bearings at Autozone for my Disco and the cheapest available was a Timken. . . So much for that. . .

 

[Daryl]

it's quite clear from your response who has their panties twisted.

So you either missed or did not understand the last part of my post: you get responded to in kind.

I just think extremely broad generalizations are the wrong way to go on most things, and on something as varied as auto parts, this is definitely the case. If you want to talk specific parts that's fine. . .

Extremely broad generalizations work just fine for this. I think it might be easier to talk about WHICH cheap chinese crap behind their counter is a good idea to buy. I suppose anything if it's for a vehicle you don't intend to keep for long.

You were talking about where you buy parts in general. So, where do you recommend we buy parts. . . ? What is the "real" parts store you mentioned (where all professionals buy their parts)?

Go ask your local garage where they get their parts. Depending on the are of the country you are in, it will be something like a NAPA franchise, National Auto Parts, or a place like that. The big hint is that it's the parts store with a fleet of mini trucks or little cars in front of it, as they deliver to shops. Do they sell some junk too? Often, yes. But they have availability of decent quality parts in stock. The national chains sometimes have decent quality parts available in addition to the cheap chinese crap, and just as often those parts aren't in stock or are special orders. Because that's not their business. It is the business of these other parts stores to have things like that in stock.

And where else do you get parts when you don't need them right now? I'd like to think every one here knows enough new and used parts hoses for Rovers already. I doubt that needs to be covered.

BTW: I understand what you mean about the cheap bearings in the lowest line. I recently looked at a Chinese axle bearing set for a Chevy 12 bolt at Advance, and the cages were made out of plastic. . . Didn't know there was such a thing until then. . . On the other hand I bought wheel bearings at Autozone for my Disco and the cheapest available was a Timken. . . So much for that. . .

Plastic cages, poorly machined castings, plastic or stamped metal impellers on water pumps that are supposed to be forged, the cheapest possible brake lining material (either made from something the hardness of mashed potatoes or diamonds depending on whether they come with a lifetime warranty or not).....these are all the typical build quality that you'll find. Like most other things, you just might be able to find some decent parts there but it's more likely that what you need is going to not be in that category, certainly not on their lowest end price point.. I do on occasion, but I end up sending most of them back to where they came from after inspecting them.

This has grown quite tiresome, and I'm done with it. If you want to know/understand the parts business better I'd suggest you read up on it. Nothing I've said here is any kind of secret. It's all very well known information that you won't likely even need to leave your chair to find out.

And again, if you're happy with the quality of the merchandise you are buying that's all that matters, as you're the customer. But if someone is soliciting suggestions or doesn't appear to know that there is a difference in quality I'm going to mention it, as that's the purpose of a public discussion: sharing information.

 

[David Harris]

Go ask your local garage where they get their parts. Depending on the are of the country you are in, it will be something like a NAPA franchise, National Auto Parts, or a place like that. The big hint is that it's the parts store with a fleet of mini trucks or little cars in front of it, as they deliver to shops. Do they sell some junk too? Often, yes. But they have availability of decent quality parts in stock. The national chains sometimes have decent quality parts available in addition to the cheap chinese crap, and just as often those parts aren't in stock or are special orders. Because that's not their business. It is the business of these other parts stores to have things like that in stock.

Exactly what everyone has been trying to say. . . All parts stores carry both good and bad quality parts. It's up to us to sort through them on a case by case basis according to quality and how much we're willing to spend. In the case of the Imperial clutches, they're are the least expensive alternative and they seem to last just fine. . .

 

[Antichrist]

All the parts stores around here deliver to garages so that's certainly no indicator.
The Imperial/Hayden clutches (to take this back to the topic) are not made in China. Given how many people install them on their Rovers I think if they were crap people would be complaining. All I've ever seen is people saying the severe duty engage too much, which you'd expect.
I can get u-joints at Advance for $13 or I can go to the local driveline shop and buy the same u-joint for $25-$30.
I got my Diehard Platinum battery at Sears for $189 or I could have bought the same battery from Odyssey for close to $300.


If you know what you're buying you can buy quality parts at places other than NAPA or the dealer.
I shop at NAPA, but one thing I don't like about them is they rebox nearly everything with the NAPA label so many times you don't know what you're getting. For example, for years their u-joints were Spicer in a NAPA box. I went in about 8 or 9 years ago and said I wanted a 5-153x u-joint and they sold me a GMB in a NAPA box. They've since gone to Precision, at least last time I checked.

What I've learned in the 40 years I've been buying parts and working on cars is that it's buyer beware almost anywhere.

 

[Daryl]

What I've learned in the 40 years I've been buying parts and working on cars is that it's buyer beware almost anywhere.

That's certainly something we can both agree on.

 

[psykokid]

I picked up a Hyaden 2991 on wednesday before i left for the current trip i'm on in NorCal. Got it for 50 bucks from my local import parts house. It roars like a jet engine and dinged my MPG about half a mile a gallon on my way up. I was getting 14 mpg on the freeway with a fully laden roof rack, got 13.5 on this trip. Temp never went up above 195 even when climbing the mountain to our campground about an hour east of chico, ca. Plus it uses the stock bolts with no need to modify any other parts, just bolt on and go.

 

[Antichrist]

If you needed a new clutch you can't really say the Hayden reduced your mileage. The only real test would be to take a new factory unit and see what your mileage is driving under certain conditions, then do the same with a Hayden driving the same route under the same conditions.

 

[High Center]

If you've spent any time wrenching professionally you would understand that cheap chain parts store parts failing early is not an opinion, it's a fact. Best of luck to you in any case. It wasn't meant as a personal slight against you.

No slight taken, just poking back a bit- in good nature. I did do a stint with a wrench early in my career in the USCG but that's hardly applicable. When I needed a part then, there was no questioning cost or quality. These days I try to discriminate where I can. I wouldn't think of using some parts but others (provided good research) will save me some hard earned dollars.

The larger truth of Chinese parts is not unknown to me and is a sad marker in the decline of our manufacturing economy. That said- I have my own declines to watch over...every dollar counts.

Best,
HC

 

[psykokid]

If you needed a new clutch you can't really say the Hayden reduced your mileage. The only real test would be to take a new factory unit and see what your mileage is driving under certain conditions, then do the same with a Hayden driving the same route under the same conditions.

stock fan clutch was recent, was going to be doing a lot of up hill slogging with a fully loaded truck up mountain roads and would have rather the truck run cooler than warmer. Stock clutch is fine and is hanging out in my spares box..