Going domestic, project vanilla aka the family tankster, 2004 Suburban 2500

[DmaxSuburban]

I'm glad to see others running their heavy Suburbans off road. Mine is an '03 3/4Ton that I swapped an LBZ Duramax & Allison into. G80. Front torsion bars cranked a little, but not all the way. 265/75R16 M/Ts. I took it on the WABDR last summer, and it did just fine. Of course there were sections that I chose to go-around and let the Jeeps play, but it did surprisingly well. And kept us all comfortable at the same time!

 

[upcruiser]

That is one really cool rig! So, when you cranked your torsions bars, was it to restore the ride height, assuming you lost some by the extra weight of the Dmax? How much taller than stock does your front end sit now? I haven't lifted ours yet, but after looking at alot of pics of 2500's I think ours is sagged a bit in the front compared to stock ride height, maybe some due to the weight of the brush guard. If this is the case, hoping cranking ours up soon will not affect the ride quality. Trying to figure out how much I want to raise it though. I would like to stay with the stock keys if possible to save $ and keep the T bars tucked up close to the frame but I am willing to concede if needed in regards to keys and shocks.

What tranny do you have in your truck? The Allison doesn't squeeze into the transmission tunnel of the Suburban right? Regardless, that is an awesome setup.

 

[upcruiser]

So part of the point of this thread was to share my experiences framed by being a long time Cruiser guy. Having spent a month with the truck now, mostly just using to run errands in town and take my bike and family out on little day excursions I have some observations to share.

The biggest difference to me from a tactile point of view driving this truck vs our FJ or Land Cruiser is NVH. Having hopped back and forth between our FJC and the Burb, the Burb does feel quite a bit less refined. At idle you feel coarse vibration through your hands on the steering wheel from the engine, almost as if the motor mounts don't dampen as much as they should. Its very minor but there. Maybe it is just our power steering pump, but it has a slightly rough feel when turning at low speeds. In the Yota, there is no vibrations or coarseness you feel through the steering wheel, same with our 80 series.

The FJ feels like a nimble sports car driving around town vs the Burb, but yeah, that is kind of obvious given a 2,000lb weight difference and 105" wheelbase vs 140". What that means in the real world is just that the FJ is more fun to drive, on road and assumably offroad on dirt. No big deal, but just an observation. Even the 80 series feels like a lethargic cumbersome beast compared to the FJC.

Now, the coarseness I was referring to above, totally disappears once you get on the road and at highway speeds, the Burb is completely smooth, refined feeling and transmits no harshness through the steering wheel. It is quieter than the FJ or the 80 series, in fact, it is the quietest vehicle at highway speeds I have owned. Probably alot to do with the fact we don't have a roof rack other than the factory unit on it.

While the seats in the Suburban don't really have much support, and being that leather that GM products use, they aren't super plush, a bit slippery, but supremely comfortable for long drives. Seems like they will wear like steel too. Nice and easy to clean, I like them.

One ergonomic oddity I forgot to mention earlier is the steering wheel placement, it isn't directly in front of you, its offset just a little to the right which in reality has no ill effect, but seems a little odd at first when you aren't used to it.

I have had one issue so far, our HVAC fan for the front only seems to be operating on the high setting but not on 1,2, or 3. Argh, hope this isn't a big issue and an easy fix.

My kiddo loves the truck, he gets super excited to go for drives, vs never was really all that stoked to get into our Outback or FJC. The 80 series and the Burb are his favorites I think mostly because the visibility out is so good for him that he can check stuff out.

Still on a holding pattern to do some of the upgrades we wanted to do until our FJ sells. If you know anyone looking for an FJC that is kitted out to explore let me know! Comes with all the goodies, just throw in your camp gear and hit the road!

 

[justcuz]

On the trucks 3/4 tons have different torsion bar keys than the 1/2 tons.
To raise a 3/4 ton truck the 1/2 ton keys are used, to raise a 1/2 ton you have to use Ford torsion bar keys.
These keys re-index the torsion bar and give lift without excessive torsion bar bolt cranking.
The Avalanche, Suburbans and Tahoes have torsion bars that are 2" shorter than trucks. I suspect the only bigger bars you could buy would be a big block Suburban or Avalanche bar for a replacement.
We are buying a new 2015 Suburban so I will be inheriting our older 2000 K1500.
Since the 1500 1/2 tons have coils in the rear and I do some towing, I replaced the rear springs with Hummer H2 coils. This netted me about 1.5 to 2 inches of lift out back. Once it becomes mine I will be installing the Ford torsion keys up front to bring the front up a bit.
Our 2000 has 3.73 gears with 285/75x16 tires on stock GM aluminum wheels. I has a lock right soft locker in the rear (installed after my wife blew the G80) in the factory 10 bolt rear axle. Ours runs about 2200 at 70 and probably 2400 at 75. Funny thing about these LS engines is the torque band is pretty high in the engine and mine gets better mileage going 80 in Utah than it does here in California at 65.
I also have a 1993 Suburban K1500 that has 3/4 ton torsion bars and rear spring packs in it. I converted the rear to a 9.5 semi float rear axle with a tight LSD (took all the G80 stuff out and added frictions) and have 285/75x16 wheels and tires on it also. I use it on desert trips and have driven the Mojave Road and other trips with it with no problems. I like not having to pitch a tent!

 

[upcruiser]

A little update. We are still waiting for our FJ Cruiser to sell before I drop money into the Suburban for some of the upgrades but I did crank the front torsion bars after taking some measurements. Before the truck had a rake with the front over 3" lower than the rear, driver side over 3.5" lower. I assume that is more sagged than stock, possibly due to the front brush guard weight. The torsion bar adjustment screws turned easily to my relief without even having put penetrating solution on them. I balanced out the front and brought the front up so it is 1" lower than the back. The idea was to have it perfectly level when I hitch up our camper, not using the weight distribution kit. Much to my relief, hooking up the trailer with around 450lbs of tongue weight, the truck sat level. Awesome! The ride actually improved on the front end. I think it was sagged low enough that it was harsh from the lack of travel. I haven't driven it a ton yet since I need to take it in to get it aligned but there is no pulling or issues showing anything being very off. Going to get the alignment next then tires, I think we decided on a set of General Grabber AT2's. Smooth ride, quiet, good wear, good performance in the dirt, severe snow rating, and good value.

Having spent more time in the truck now I am really digging it, this thing is an absolute beast. On the highway it is comfortable, super quiet and just devours the miles. In the dirt it is a bit rough riding at low speeds with full tire pressure. Having spent time behind the wheels of Dodge, Ford, and Chevy 3/4 and 1 ton pickups of pretty much every generation and configuration, I can say that the ride of a 3/4 ton Suburban is noticeably less harsh. Its a great compromise of ride and capacity.

Working on shocks for the truck, thinking Rancho 9000's for the adjustability of them, hard when towing, soft when poking around off the beaten path. I haven't decided what to do in the rear for storage yet. I removed the 3rd row seat, so much room, so many options. I think for our upcoming trip I am going to make some bike mount points and good lashing points for our gear. Might hold off on the bed/storage for a bit and ground tent when we leave the camper behind. I am having a tough time designing a configurable sleeping platform that allows me to store bikes on one half and storage underneath the other half.

Really geeked to load up and hit the road soon.

 

[upcruiser]

A few pics....

Torsion bar crank

Before


After

Something that I am really excited about with the Burb is the ability to travel with our bikes inside the back. Front wheel off with the seat height all the way up and room to spare behind the second row seat. My fat bike is quite a bit longer than my regular mtb, so this visual shows how easy it will be to fit multiple bikes in the back. Awesome

 

[snowblind]

A little update. I did crank the front torsion bars after taking some measurements. I balanced out the front and brought the front up so it is 1" lower than the back. The idea was to have it perfectly level when I hitch up our camper, not using the weight distribution kit. Much to my relief, hooking up the trailer with around 450lbs of tongue weight, the truck sat level. Awesome! The ride actually improved on the front end. I think it was sagged low enough that it was harsh from the lack of travel.

Having spent more time in the truck now I am really digging it, this thing is an absolute beast. On the highway it is comfortable, super quiet and just devours the miles. In the dirt it is a bit rough riding at low speeds with full tire pressure. Having spent time behind the wheels of Dodge, Ford, and Chevy 3/4 and 1 ton pickups of pretty much every generation and configuration, I can say that the ride of a 3/4 ton Suburban is noticeably less harsh. Its a great compromise of ride and capacity.

Working on shocks for the truck, thinking Rancho 9000's for the adjustability of them, hard when towing, soft when poking around off the beaten path.

Glad you're enjoying it. Amazing how much the fronts can sag on these things.

I haven't tried the Ranchos but I heard the valving is too harsh even on the softest setting. Bilsteins have worked well for me.



Matt

 

[kojackJKU]

I am running Monroe reflex monotubes on my 1500 burb and they are great, on road, off road, no road. I am doing the 285's, ford keys if I can find a set, and the hummer H2 rear springs as well. The amount of space in these things is great. I think I could sleep in the back with just the 3rd row seat out. ha ha. >>>>>>im short.

 

[upcruiser]

Glad you're enjoying it. Amazing how much the fronts can sag on these things.

I haven't tried the Ranchos but I heard the valving is too harsh even on the softest setting. Bilsteins have worked well for me.



Matt

From some reading I have done it seems that the harshness seems to come from lighter vehicles using them, the accounts of full size rigs seemed more along the lines of them providing a nice ride. Have you heard folks with large rigs saying they are harsh? Just like the idea of adjustment from towing to bumping around offroad. If they are harsh on the softest setting I think I will pass since that defeats the point.

 

[upcruiser]

I am running Monroe reflex monotubes on my 1500 burb and they are great, on road, off road, no road. I am doing the 285's, ford keys if I can find a set, and the hummer H2 rear springs as well. The amount of space in these things is great. I think I could sleep in the back with just the 3rd row seat out. ha ha. >>>>>>im short.

I have heard a lot of strong praise for the Monroes, still keeping those as a potential option too. I am 6 foot so me sleeping on a platform bed behind the back seats would have me hanging my feet over the backs of the second row a bit, but that's how I like to sleep anyway. Big issue is ventilation and bugs with the Burb. My Land Cruiser has rear sliding glass that I made screens for. I had a sleeping hunk in the back and it had a nice airy feel with the windows open without having bugs getting inside.

 

[upcruiser]

Got the new tires installed. Went with the General Grabber AT2 in a 285/75/16. Seemed like a solid performer and a great value. They ride smoothly so far, quiet too.





Had the alignment done too, the front end was just a touch toe out so my seat of the pants feel was pretty spot on with the alignment feeling ok. Good peace of mind now knowing that it is where it needs to be. I also installed the brake controller and replaced the control relay for the front blower fan. The fan was only working on setting 4. I guess this is super common.

Also found I have a flat spot on my starter so that will likely need replacement soon. Hope this thing doesn't nickel and dime me with accessory issues. One plus for this truck to me was that the motor and drivetrain are pretty much bullet proof. I have a lot of faith in the general mechanicals but not is much with things like power steering pumps, starters, alternators, fuel pumps, etc. At least everything is pretty easy to work on on this truck.

I have a Thule rack system on order for the truck, looking forward to being able to haul our canoe or kayaks on the roof or having the option to throw our rocket box on if needed. Onward......

 

[kojackJKU]

Yeah, that is one thing that needs to be done after cranking the bars. Love the look of your rig with the new shoes.

 

[Buddha.]

That's a nice truck, I'm still trying to convince myself to trade the Blazer for one of those. Mileage is basically the same though the price tag would be a bit more. I too went with those tires (30x9.5 fill up the wheel wells nice), better reviews than BFG a/t's and cheaper. I pulled my Firebird on a heavy car trailer through a foot of snow and never lacked traction.
I did the spacers on the rear axle, 1.25" per side I think. I feel it corners better now.

 

[86cj]

Glad you're enjoying it. Amazing how much the fronts can sag on these things.

I haven't tried the Ranchos but I heard the valving is too harsh even on the softest setting. Bilsteins have worked well for me.



Matt

Nice rust free BUBBASUB.......Those were the first GM wheels in 20 years that were actually nice to look at................

Another vote for Bilsteins, I bought Rancho 9000's for my K-3500 with the same empty vs loaded adjustability in mind. They never really had a sweet spot for either load and quit adjusting soon after purchase both times "Rancho claimed road salt".
The Bilstein's rode better empty and stopped the porpoising on freeway expansion joints when the rear is loaded heavy, another reason to dial in front shock length and valving. The 5100 series is the same shock as the 4600 with a different body material and more length and valving options.

I would look into an upgrade for your idler arm, the IFS seems to wear them out to soon and kills the steering feel. I think their are some kits with HD tie rods too, not "Rod End" stuff.

My buddy just had some random starter issues and a vibration on his 10 year old 3/4 ton 6.0, the flex plate cracked all the way around the crank bolts rotated and still stuck together. The truck was diagnosed as a bad transfer case.

 

[Epix]

I really like the way your rig is turning out.