Handheld GMRS options?

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Ive been doing solo expeditions since I got my Drivers License, always made my mom nervous so as a courtesy I'd find a pay phone and call her every few days to let her know where I was and when I'd check in next, then cell phones came around and I'd shoot her a text anytime I was at a high vantage with just a bit of coverage, and then I finally got my HAM license and gave her a link to see where I was and stopped checking in all together.. I'm nearly 40yro now with my own family and she still follows my adventures and I'm confident that if I stopped moving or broadcasting for too long she'd send in the calvary.. Its nice knowing there's someone back home who will report me missing and have a good idea where I was.
 

moose545

Active member
Haha very cool and I get that, it's great you have everyone involved. I'm just thinking that for what I want to do which is just talk to folks and reach/find somebody when I get on the radio, that the ICOM 4100/DSTAR might give me a better ability to do so.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Yeah see that's awesome and ideal for your use case for sure. Me either being solo or with another, there's rarely ever anyone else to let know where I'm at, and more practical for the SOS feature the more I think about.
Ham radio is only as good as the effort you put into to make it. I run with APRS on and have a couple of times been called because I happened to be close to another ham who needed something. The position beacons are fundamentally just a way to let other hams around you know you're out there and how they can contact you. You put your simplex frequency or monitored repeater in the packet data and that shows up in the clients around you.

APRS in the context that most people in "overlanding" use it is woefully under achieving and not all that truly ham-ish. It seems a lot of people who get their ham licenses in this hobby do it just to avoid paying $70 for a GMRS license and couldn't care much less about actually being hams.

Just had a situation where a person in my club who needed real time break down assistance didn't respond to my APRS messages despite running with an SSID (-9) that represented a fully capable APRS station.

We only found out about it when he walked uphill enough to get in view of a cell tower and texted someone. The whole time had he just sent a group APRS message to everyone in the club we already could have known where he was (which was figured out looking at his beacons on aprs.fi anyway) and what he needed.

I was able to get in touch with an unrelated ham not far from him who was also running an APRS beacon. He was willing to go back to help him, maybe lend tools or parts, but since my club buddy wasn't familiar with what he was doing (despite my many times offering to teach a class on APRS) he had to spend a night on the trail he probably didn't need to.

C'est la vie.

I have a SPOT tracker but my first step is usually an APRS-to-SMS message to whomever I've told my plan. They don't need to be in front of a computer or a radio to get that message. If the rest of the interchange will be via APRS then the person I message I will know to be a ham with that capability but usually the exchange remains SMS<->APRS with the expectation that next time I have cell coverage I'll call directly. The SPOT check-in is basically redundant but I do use it so in reality my SPOT is just a SHTF SOS and substitutes for a PLB when I need a second SOS option.
 
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dreadlocks

Well-known member
I was boondocking once deep in the backcountry in early spring, way out of cell coverage and in a box canyon with only one way out, we'd been out for a week or so and saw a fire just over the ridge, went to my D710, sorted all stations by distance, found a guy moving nearby w/his frequency and tone advertised correctly, just clicked on him and a few moments later I was asking him if he knew anything about the smoke, he had just driven up the main valley that morning and said there were signs all over saying there was a prescribed burn going on.. since I had been out a few days I missed the signage.. I thanked him for the information and told my wife she could stop packing up camp.

That day I was most happy to have my HAM, and APRS running.. this last weekend my wife asked me why I wouldn't shut the radio off in the vehicle when we were just hanging out at basecamp, and I told her it was just incase someone nearby needs to summon me.. If anyone reaches out to me over radio I'll lend any assistance I can.. I saw a couple people doing the CDT very closeby that I was within simplex range of, also using APRS.. The more people who have it, and know how to use it.. the more resources we all have in times of need, I love that Colorado has so much APRS traffic.
 

moose545

Active member
Ham radio is only as good as the effort you put into to make it. I run with APRS on and have a couple of times been called because I happened to be close to another ham who needed something. The position beacons are fundamentally just a way to let other hams around you know you're out there and how they can contact you. You put your simplex frequency or monitored repeater in the packet data and that shows up in the clients around you.

APRS in the context that most people in "overlanding" use it is woefully under achieving and not all that truly ham-ish. It seems a lot of people who get their ham licenses in this hobby do it just to avoid paying $70 for a GMRS license and couldn't care much less about actually being hams.

Just had a situation where a person in my club who needed real time break down assistance didn't respond to my APRS messages despite running with an SSID (-9) that represented a fully capable APRS station.

We only found out about it when he walked uphill enough to get in view of a cell tower and texted someone. The whole time had he just sent a group APRS message to everyone in the club we already could have known where he was (which was figured out looking at his beacons on aprs.fi anyway) and what he needed.

I was able to get in touch with an unrelated ham not far from him who was also running an APRS beacon.. He was willing to got back to help him, maybe lend tools or parts, but since my club buddy wasn't familiar with what he was doing (despite my many times offering to teach a class on APRS) he had to spend a night on the trail he probably didn't need to.

C'est la vie.

I have a SPOT tracker but my first step is usually an APRS-to-SMS message to whomever I've told my plan. They don't need to be in front of a computer or a radio to get that message. If the rest of the interchange will be via APRS then the person I message I will know to be a ham with that capability but usually the exchange remains SMS<->APRS with the expectation that next time I have cell coverage I'll call directly. The SPOT check-in is basically redundant but I do use it so in reality my SPOT is just a SHTF SOS and substitutes for a PLB when I need a second SOS option.

Yeah I'm trying, got my 710 configured as -9 for mobile station on APRS/APRS.fi. I'm just trying to get more practice and contacts. When driving in the area if I'm in my truck, I'll listen to the repeater and see what I can't stir up, call CQ (yes I do that) and sometimes get lucky, but most often times it's nothing. I know there's a lot of D-STAR in my area, and just wonder if I'd have better luck there. Maybe a better solution is get a ICOM HT for the house, and talk more from here and hit the repeaters and see what I can get that way. There's Echolink on my PC, but that's just not the same. I even tried monitoring the old open road 146.52 going up to NJ and back last Friday, and had nothing.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
With an TM-D710 running fully capable (which fundamentally just means message capable) boils down to meaning that when a message comes into the radio you actually read it and respond. The D710 and FTM-350 & FTM-400 have all the functionality right there in the radio. Don't need anything more hardware-wise strictly speaking.

Having a phone or tablet with APRSdroid or a computer with an APRS client expands the usefulness is all. It shows stations on a map rather than just a list and allows you to use a keyboard and monitor instead of scrolling through a virtual keyboard.

So the irritating thing is mostly that they ignore the APRS message when it prompts them on their radio. If you have a TM-D710 and are just not willing to respond then as a courtesy put in a different SSID, -11, -12 or something that just means it's not a station operated by someone willing to accept messages.
 
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craig333

Expedition Leader
I have an interesting Icom radio. IC-F21GM. It was an FRS/GMRS with a removable antenna. I said was because Icom disabled it. Not really, it just stopped working.
 

moose545

Active member
With an TM-D710 running fully capable (which fundamentally just means message capable) boils down to meaning that when a message comes into the radio you actually read it and respond. The D710 and FTM-350 & FTM-400 have all the functionality right there in the radio. Don't need anything more hardware-wise strictly speaking.

Having a phone or tablet with APRSdroid or a computer with an APRS client expands the usefulness is all. It shows stations on a map rather than just a list and allows you to use a keyboard and monitor instead of scrolling through a virtual keyboard.

So the irritating thing is mostly that they ignore the APRS message when it prompts them on their radio. If you have a TM-D710 and are just not willing to respond then as a courtesy put in a different SSID, -11, -12 or something that just means it's not a station operated by someone willing to accept messages.

I've got mine set as -9 like all mobile stations should be listed to my knowledge. Since it's dual band, I had B-side dedicated to APRS 144.xxx and it would beacon and send it's packets as I was headed up the Interstate. Not sure if I can still beacon of it's not set to that frequency on one band, either A or B. I tried to VFO to both 2m/70cm on Band A. but once I was moving I realized I had APRS LOCK on, and couldn't change B side at all. I still don't know how to send a message, but I did get a few messages that would popup from others, not sure how to view/respond to them though. They were mainly like "KN4DE - Hello!" or "KJ5NMJ - DFGDNSBGBFIGJFHGF" like people testing or something, but I still have more to learn for sure. I'm learning more and more and it's already installed and an awesome radio, might as well stick with it and learn
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I've got mine set as -9 like all mobile stations should be listed to my knowledge. Since it's dual band, I had B-side dedicated to APRS 144.xxx and it would beacon and send it's packets as I was headed up the Interstate. Not sure if I can still beacon of it's not set to that frequency on one band, either A or B. I tried to VFO to both 2m/70cm on Band A. but once I was moving I realized I had APRS LOCK on, and couldn't change B side at all. I still don't know how to send a message, but I did get a few messages that would popup from others, not sure how to view/respond to them though. They were mainly like "KN4DE - Hello!" or "KJ5NMJ - DFGDNSBGBFIGJFHGF" like people testing or something, but I still have more to learn for sure. I'm learning more and more and it's already installed and an awesome radio, might as well stick with it and learn
The SSID you append to your call sign is up to you. There's a few commonly understood ones (recommendations really) but there's no hard-fast FCC rule or anything.

A call sign with no SSID or -1 generally means a home station, -9 means a mobile station, -7 often indicates a message capable handheld, I've seen -10 or -i meaning a station only online (Internet, no RF), weather stations usually use -13, balloons use -11. For a non-balloon one-way device such as a position beaconing tracker I use -12, this is usually understood to just be an icon moving around on a map. The -2, -3 and -4 are usually digipeaters of some sort and over the road trucking hams I've seen use -14.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Code:
SSID RECOMMENDATIONS:  It is very convenient to other mobile
operators or others looking at callsigns flashing by, to be able to
recognize some common applications at a glance.  Here are the
recommendations for the 16 possible SSID's (the limit of 16 comes
from the 4 bits available in the AX.25 protocol.  Note, The SSID of
zero is dropped by most display applications.  So a callsign with no
SSID has an SSID of 0.

-0 Your primary station usually fixed and message capable
-1 generic additional station, digi, mobile, wx, etc
-2 generic additional station, digi, mobile, wx, etc
-3 generic additional station, digi, mobile, wx, etc
-4 generic additional station, digi, mobile, wx, etc
-5 Other networks (Dstar, Iphones, Androids, Blackberry's etc)
-6 Special activity, Satellite ops, camping or 6 meters, etc
-7 walkie talkies, HT's or other human portable
-8 boats, sailboats, RV's or second main mobile
-9 Primary Mobile (usually message capable)
-10 internet, Igates, echolink, winlink, AVRS, APRN, etc
-11 balloons, aircraft, spacecraft, etc
-12 APRStt, DTMF, RFID, devices, one-way trackers*, etc
-13 Weather stations
-14 Truckers or generally full time drivers
-15 generic additional station, digi, mobile, wx, etc

* One-way trackers should best use the -12 one-way SSID indicator
because the -9's usually mean a ham in full APRS communication
both message and voice.  The -9's can be contacted by APRS message
or by Voice on his frequency included in his beacon, or on Voice
Alert if he is in simplex range.  The -12's are just moving Icons
on the map and since they have no 2 way communication for ham radio
they are not generally of routine interest to other operators.


source: http://www.aprs.org/aprs11/SSIDs.txt
 

Rando

Explorer
Not to thread drift too much - but what is the consensus on using a used commercial UHF radio for GMRS - something like a Kenwood TK-380 or Moto HT-1250 (HT) or TK-880 (Mobile). Seems like you get a super solid high performance radio, for a reasonable price, as long as you can figure out the programming.

Any thoughts on these or other commercial options to repurpose for GMRS?
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
the handhelds are big heavy crappy bricks by today's standards, thats what I used to use before China radios hit the scene.. if you need a radio you can beat someone to death with, sure.. but they really dont offer much more.. I use a couple of the Kenwood Mobiles for my repeater but that was just availability to build such a thing outta, they are okay.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Not to thread drift too much - but what is the consensus on using a used commercial UHF radio for GMRS - something like a Kenwood TK-380 or Moto HT-1250 (HT) or TK-880 (Mobile). Seems like you get a super solid high performance radio, for a reasonable price, as long as you can figure out the programming.

Any thoughts on these or other commercial options to repurpose for GMRS?
Yeah, an HT1250, there's no comparison in quality, handhelds especially, compared to the toy radios they sell. They'll be right on frequency and bandwidth and stay in alignment.

I don't know what radios dreadlocks is using but my XPRs and VXDs are anything but crappy bricks. They're a little bigger than ham and GMRS radios but that's because they have batteries that last for days.

The problem with Motorola is as business they like to stick it to you so it'll be a couple of hundred dollars to get a CPS 3 year subscription and you have to deal with getting a wideband entitlement from Motorola to use 25KHz.

It needs to be said, using commercial radios for GMRS is illegal for the most part. They meet and exceed the technical standards. GMRS handheld antennas aren't supposed to be removable, for example.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Kenwood TK-380 he mentions is a 1lb brick with its little nicad battery that provides a whopping 8h of battery, motorola too.. my $16 Zastone weighs less than a 1/4lb and its lithium battery lasts 3 day weekend easy as pie.. I used to use something similar, none of my users wanted to carry em and they all needed to be on the charger at the end of the night, and honestly carrying my revolver on my hip is more comfortable than strapping a big brick to yeh.

now they got these tiny lil ones that fit in a pocket, are cheap enough they loose/break/dispose of its NBD, but its rather rugged and simple/user friendly and they can just keep it on em all weekend.. Audio quality is perfectly fine.

I wanna get a Kenwood D74A for a nice personal HT, but I've got much higher demands than my GMRS family.. and I admit, a nice lil pocketable radio that goes for days is pretty sweet, especially when backpacking and weight is the enemy.
 
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