Help a guy out...

Dirty Harry

Adventurer
Which parts are more easily diagnosed/repaired in the boonies? Axle shafts? Steering components? Ignition components? Belts? Hoses? Brake lines? Spark plugs? Fuel filter? Unfortunately I am not as familiar with the 100 series as I am with the 80.
 

ShottsCruisers

Explorer
Dirty Harry said:
Which parts are more easily diagnosed/repaired in the boonies? Axle shafts? Steering components? Ignition components? Belts? Hoses? Brake lines? Spark plugs? Fuel filter? Unfortunately I am not as familiar with the 100 series as I am with the 80.

And unfortunately I'm not a tech. I'd pay dearly for in-field repairs :REOutArchery02:

This was discussed with Robbie and others a long time ago on Mud. Jeff, my MM and Cruiser specialist at Toyota share the opinion.

I think the two rigs are close enough that debating this is mute. I do however hold the 80 head gasket and overheating issues as red flags that would keep my 80 at home and have the 100 on the long trip. My Lexus 450 sucks in the overheat arena.
Just make sure you replace your 100's starter contacts in prep for the long trip. Yer set. I'm doing mine now at 120K....just in case.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Now things are getting interesting :)

I want to comment on engine torque and use, but first I will chime in on the subject of front axle. All things being equal (or similar) I would still prefer an live-axle with supple coil-springs over IFS merely for easy of travel and articulation. However, during my limited time with my 4Runner I do like the platform, most of the time, on AND off highway. The 4Runner is a better 'car' than all of my past 4x4s, what most of us use them for most of the time, and a very capable, comfortable expedition/travel vehicle when needed.

Engine:

Agreed that a lower torque peak is generally better for off-road. Torque is also what most of us want for acceleration from a stop in 'normal' driving. Having low-end torque is important, but having 'enough' torque and transmitting to the ground is critically related. The transmission and gearing play a critical role in helping or hurting the engine's performance.

The legendary low-end torque from the 4.0L straight-six in my previous LJ Rubicon was very nice on paper, but was simply not enough to easily overcome heavy modifications driving on-highway. Even unmodified the wind-catching Jeep LJ was 4000-lbs. Also, the late model engine programming from Jeep made the engine feel and perform poorly compared to previous versions of the same 242 cu.in. engine. Those who have experience with the late model Jeep 4.0L and V8 swaps say that the V8 Wranglers not only have more power, but get better MPG too. This is not surprising due to the fact that the more powerful engine (both HP and torque) has a much easier time motivating these tall, modified Jeeps. Though the torque peak may be higher than we sometimes think ideal, there is often a high percentage of that torque peak available at a low RPM. My LJ was underpowered for high altitude driving and wind with only 33s and the stock 4.10 gears. I swapped in 4.88s and it was much better, but it could still have used more torque and HP to hold speed on steep freeway climbs. (I would prefer a 4 or 6-cylinder turbo diesel.)

pskhaat: I'm not sure I understand your statement that "The 2UZ-FE's torque curve is too high and too flat." Too high, I understand, but usually people argue against a torque curve that has an abrupt peak, not one that is too flat?

Fast-forward to my current '06 4Runner with the 2UZ-FE V8 (the only platform with which I have experience with this engine). I searched for a 4Runner that had only the options I wanted, including the 4.7 V8. If I was going to keep my Toyota stock I would have preferred the potential fuel economy increase (EPA +2-MPG on-highway) of the V6, but figured that my real world fuel economy after heavy, aerodynamic-robbing modifications, would be very close to a V8. If the V8 had a 2WD mode it could be the same or better than a weighed down V6. Regardless of the possible MPG hit, I have more power available when I want or need it.

I only have the one graph for the 2UZ-FE engine, and I think this one is for a later model like I have. Torque peak is supposed to be 3400-RPM. It is listed as 306 lb.-ft. for the most recent model 4Runners (2007) or as high as 320-lb.-ft. for the earlier ones (Feds changed the rating rules). Current HP rating (2007) is 260 @ 5400.

With approximately 260 lb-ft torque available at 1000-RPM I have as much as the V6 would have (266) at its peak of 4000-RPM. Also more than the 4.0L 242-cu.in. Jeep motor in my last platform. I only wish the 4.7L V8 torque curve were even flatter, not falling off so dramatically after the 3400-RPM peak. Numbers aside, the little V8 runs great.


pskhaat said:
Okay dudes, it's time for me to chime in on the bad of the 100 (which is honestly hard to do). Sorry if this is boring info, but I think it's really relevant to what we do and I just love theory of engine design:
  • The 2UZ-FE's torque curve is too high and too flat. You'll never notice this unless you're in some slop or more likely sand where it takes some gearing and higher RPMs to get into the non-stalling arena. The 1FZ-FE's torque peaks at 3000-3200 RPM (IIRC) and though that's still quite high (3400-3600 on the 2UZ-FE?) I think it's shape is a little more peaky and you can feel it on the same road. Other side of the coin: much better on the highway, and if you need to punch it, 4500 RPMs will get you in the passing lane against your seat.
  • The Hundy's braking system is biased to the rear during light/normal braking. This in my own personal experience can cause some interesting slick/ice road downhill braking conditions. With more pedal force the fronts then have the bias.
  • The Hundy's dirty squirty (windshield washer) reservoir bottle is mounted outside of the warm engine compartment; in the front wheel well. I've experienced multiple washer system freezes from the frozen road slop.
  • Hundy doesn't have cyclonic air filter, and it's oil filter can only be accessed from crawling below.
  • Starter reasonably inaccessible.
  • 3rd row seats don't fold up as well as the 80's, almost like it was an afterthought.
But: the 100 is the new Toyota platform, seriously. It's got a great body design, is super-comfortable, very road-trip friendly. Would I do a 100? As I said, absolutely, but it's worth being aware of the downfalls.
 
Last edited:

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
rusty_tlc said:
After seeing his RHD diesel 45 I'd say throw a pop-up camper on that and be done with it. That is one sweet 45.

Wait what am I saying!!!:oops:

He should trade me straight across for my 1998 100, yeah that's the ticket. He gets a nice family rig and I get a so-so expedition rig. Hell I even installed an ARB in the front diff for him already.

Tempting...but I'm going to pass on th trade!!! I'll keep looking for a used 100 series.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Planning and building rigs is much of the fun for me.

Unfortunately, my Mall Crawler will be 90% finished very soon :)

24HOURSOFNEVADA said:
I'm trying...I'm enjoying buiding the 100 in my head until then.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
Useful article

New Land Cruiser gets V-8

Lindsay Brooke
Automotive Industries Feb. 1998

Design/Engineering: Chassis

Design of UZJ100, as the '98 Cruiser program is coded, was frozen in mid-1994, says veteran chief engineer Takeo Kondo. At that point, the previous FJ80 model was three years old. And as on every previous Cruiser, UZJ100 has body-on-frame construction.

"There was never any consideration of unibody design," Kondo tells AI. "Long-term durability has always been the number one goal of the Land Cruiser program," he explains, "and we expect these vehicles to be on the road for at least 25 years." Range Rover was the program's primary benchmark, particularly for suspension articulation, chassis stiffness and interior appointments.

Kondo's team completely re-engineered the FJ80's ladder frame, adding three extra crossmembers (now nine) and beefing up the side rail structure. Each crossmember is set into the rails using new bracketry, which Toyota calls a flared-flange-type joint (see Illustration). Frame rail wall thickness has been increased to 3.2mm, and the boxed rails include internal stiffening plates welded within their front 48 inches. Kondo claims this helps maintain frame integrity during a frontal impact, keeping the front end from "folding up" into the passenger compartment.

Kondo says none of the Cruiser's frame components is hydroformed nor does any Toyota program currently use this increasingly popular method of metalforming (see June '97 AI, p. 57 and Dec. '97, p. 40). The new frame surpassed the benchmark Range Rover frame in bending and torsional rigidity, claims Kondo (he did not reveal actual frequencies), while boosting overall rigidity by 5096 versus the old FJ80's frame. The stiffer frame allows more compliant suspension bushings and body mounts, helping to improve the new Cruiser's ride comfort. Two types of body mounts are used: compression and lateral-restriction.

The '98 Cruiser switches to an independent front suspension (IFS), based on upper and lower control arms and longitudinal torsion bars. The latter mount to a frame crossmember via a floating member designed to control fore/aft stability of the EFS and limit road-induced NVH. For the vehicle to match its go-anywhere image, all critical running gear, including suspension lower control arms, mounts high. The rack-and-pinion steering gear mounts above the front crossmember, which also protects the engine oil pan and radiator. Both torsion bars are protected by a large skid plate. Minimum ground clearance is nearly 10 inches, and the Cruiser's suspension stroke is among the industry's longest: 200mm front, 240mm rear.

The new Cruiser's Aisin-supplied ABS operates even in 4-wheel low while the center diff is locked. The system is able to "read" road conditions and vehicle dynamics, decreasing the amount of anti-lock applied according to suspension travel, road gradient and abrupt changes in vehicle speed. Foundation brakes feature 4-piston calipers and 12.2-inch ventilated rotors in front, and huge 12.9-inch rear rotors.

Design/Engineering: Body

Also improving the overall structure, and the body's dimensional accuracy, are new one-piece bodysides, claimed by Toyota to be the largest on any light vehicle. The large panels replace the FJ80's two-piece welded bodysides. High-strength steel reinforces all pillars and door sills. Door and rear liftgate jambs are wider for improved ingress/egress and cargo loading.

Dynamically, the UJZ100's structural changes have wrought a vehicle devoid of any body flex or squeaks when flung over the roughest terrain we could find at Borrego Springs, a California desert off-road park that's far more amenable to motocross bikes and extreme dune buggies than luxury SUVs. Driven back-to-back versus a '97 FJ80 over washboard dirt roads, the '98 Cruiser's NVH attenuation is noticeably better. Toyota has added more melt-on asphalt sheeting to the floorpan, and has increased the amount of sound-deading urethane foam and pads injected into pillars and roof rails. On the highway, wind noise is lower due to faster (by three degrees) A-pillars, and new flush-mount windshield and rear quarter window glass.

The extra stiffness and refined manners come at a price, however--mass. The new, all-steel-bodied Cruiser weighs nearly 500 pounds more than its predecessor, mostly due to the chassis and body upgrades. Kondo says there was no plan to offset the added mass with lighter weight components, such as aluminum body panels. At nearly 6,500 pounds GVWR, the Cruiser is actually a medium-duty vehicle.

Powertrain: New V-8

Land Cruiser finally gets a V-8 (a first for any Toyota-badged vehicle), but the new 4.7L engine does not contribute to the new model's extra heft. Even with its cast-iron cylinder block, the dohc, 32-valve V-8 weighs 66 pounds less than the FJ80s 4.5L inline six.

Program boss Kondo admits he wasn't initially sold on the V-8. "We evaluated the (Lexus) aluminum-block car V-8 early on, but it did not have enough low- and midrange torque for our vehicle," he recalls.

So he chose displacement. The UJZ100 design spec required an iron block, with extensive ribbing for bulletproof durability. Manufacturing efficiency called for the Cruiser's block to be machined on the same Tahara plant line as the 4.0L Lexus car V-8. Thus both blocks share common bore centers, but the Cruiser's has the maximum displacement permitted by the Tahara line. The 94mm bore is 6.4mm larger and stroke, at 83.5mm, is 1mm longer than on the car V-8. Besides its iron block and more displacement, Toyota's new "truck V-8" also differs from its car cousins in combustion chamber shape (though valve angles are the same as the 4.0L), cam profiles, and intake manifold geometry. It has a stouter crankshaft, and the con rod big-end bearing shells are aluminum. Package efficiency was also critical; the V8's designers placed the water pump and starter motor inside the block's "vee" to save space.

Powerful 32-bit engine control and effective catalysis, plus Denso top-feed injectors and coil-on-plug ignition, help certify the new Cruiser as a Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) in California. Claimed output is 230 hp at 4,800 rpm, and 320 lb-ft of torque at 3,400. That's a boost of 18 hp and 45 lb-ft over the old inline 6. At presstime, city/highway fuel economy was estimated at 14/16 mpg, more frugal than with the six This basic V-8 will also power the '99 T100 pickup, although rumors persist that the T100 engine will have sohc cylinder heads.

As fits a true 4A, the '98 Cruiser retains a 2-speed Aisin transfer case (and 2.48:1 low range). U.S. market models only offer a 4-speed electronic automatic transmission, sourced by Aisin A-W, While the center and rear differentials are still (optional) "lockers," the Cruiser's new IFS with torsion bars forced the elimination of the FJ80's locking front diff.

Interior

A slightly wider and longer cabin features a subtly refined IP, and an increased array of storage areas overhead, in consoles and cubbies, and in the door panels. Rear seat legroom is up by nearly three inches, and front seats have almost two extra inches of fore/aft slide. There is also an engine immobilizer, a trio of 12-volt power outlets, and power swing-out rear windows.

Manufacturing

Land Cruisers are made the old-fashioned way. Chassis are fully assembled at Toyota's Honsha plant in Toyota City, then trucked across town to Araco, a Toyota kieretsu affiliate. Araco, which produces the company's Coaster minibus, stamps the massive one-piece bodysides on the largest press in Toyota's inventory. It also builds the Cruiser's body and assembles the vehicle.

RELATED ARTICLE: LEXUS LX470 FEATURES VARIABLE SUSPENSION, HEIGHT CONTROL

While the '98 Lexus LX470 shares its drivetrain and structure with the Toyota Land Cruiser, two chassis systems are exclusive to the Lexus. A variable height feature and adaptive suspension combine to give the luxury SUV an excellent combination of off-road ability and highway comfort.

The Automatic Height Control system consists of an electric pump, pressure accumulator and four frame-mounted gas reservoirs linked to the gas-filled shock absorbers. AHC uses a complicated set of tubes to connect all the hydraulic components. The system features a central accumulator that supplies pressurized gas to the four satellite gas chambers. Each chamber is connected to one of the shock absorbers. The LX470 rises and falls as the pressurized gas is channeled to and from the gas shocks.

A dashboard switch allows the choice of three heights: "Low," which means 8.7 inches ground clearance for the rear axle; "High" raises the LX470 two inches; "Super High" cranks it up another two inches. The suspension defaults to the low setting when the SUV is stationary and whenever the speed exceeds 19 mph. The system will neither raise nor lower the LX470 if any door is open.

The gas shocks also adjust continually to road input. Using the Active Variable Suspension system that bowed on the '97 ES300 sedan, each shock absorber adjusts individually through a range of 16 settings. The LX470's body controller can change the shock setting in as little as 2.5 milliseconds.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
Couple things I have to say.

After my positive experiences with TRAC and VSC safety options, I wouldn't even consider buying the 98 or 99 models. You cannot add these safety features to the older model but you can add lockers to the 2000+ models.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I belive the 2UZ-FE motor is the best Toyota truck motor offered for sale in North America - ever. These things have proven to be damn reliable and the power is there when you need it. These motors are amazingly easy on oil hence the 10k Mobile 1 program I'm on. This motor has not suffered any major issues I'm aware of, sure haven't heard of headgasket problems. Many of these motors are pushing the 250k mark and running strong as ever.

Yes the design makes it hard to change the starter. The good news is you will have plenty of warning and it won't just stop working. Consider the starter, timing belt, and water pump to be PM items every 100k miles.

Brakes are better than any larger SUV, truck, or van I've ever driven. I drove extensively in snow and rain all winter in the mountains this year with awesome results.

Yes, the SFA in the 80 series is better off road and easier to work on than the IFS in the 100 series.
 

hoser

Explorer
pskhaat said:
[*]The Hundy's braking system is biased to the rear during light/normal braking. This in my own personal experience can cause some interesting slick/ice road downhill braking conditions. With more pedal force the fronts then have the bias.
[*]Hundy doesn't have cyclonic air filter, and it's oil filter can only be accessed from crawling below.
Just a few comments here... lifting any vehicle will raise the center of gravity and therefore increase weight transfer to the front wheels when braking. This means less traction for the rear wheels and less rear brake bias is needed. I'm not sure if you could use a brake proportioning valve on the 100's brake system but it might be something worth looking into.

Yes, no cyclonic filter in the 100 but if anybody really needed one, the Aus spec and Middle Eastern spec 100's came with the cyclonic filter. They are expensive though.
 

spressomon

Expedition Leader
calamaridog said:
New Land Cruiser gets V-8

Lindsay Brooke
Automotive Industries Feb. 1998

Design/Engineering: Chassis

Design of UZJ100, as the '98 Cruiser program is coded, was frozen in mid-1994, says veteran chief engineer Takeo Kondo. At that point, the previous FJ80 model was three years old. And as on every previous Cruiser, UZJ100 has body-on-frame construction.

"There was never any consideration of unibody design," Kondo tells AI. "Long-term durability has always been the number one goal of the Land Cruiser program," he explains, "and we expect these vehicles to be on the road for at least 25 years." Range Rover was the program's primary benchmark, particularly for suspension articulation, chassis stiffness and interior appointments.

Kondo's team completely re-engineered the FJ80's ladder frame, adding three extra crossmembers (now nine) and beefing up the side rail structure. Each crossmember is set into the rails using new bracketry, which Toyota calls a flared-flange-type joint (see Illustration). Frame rail wall thickness has been increased to 3.2mm, and the boxed rails include internal stiffening plates welded within their front 48 inches. Kondo claims this helps maintain frame integrity during a frontal impact, keeping the front end from "folding up" into the passenger compartment.

Kondo says none of the Cruiser's frame components is hydroformed nor does any Toyota program currently use this increasingly popular method of metalforming (see June '97 AI, p. 57 and Dec. '97, p. 40). The new frame surpassed the benchmark Range Rover frame in bending and torsional rigidity, claims Kondo (he did not reveal actual frequencies), while boosting overall rigidity by 5096 versus the old FJ80's frame. The stiffer frame allows more compliant suspension bushings and body mounts, helping to improve the new Cruiser's ride comfort. Two types of body mounts are used: compression and lateral-restriction.

The '98 Cruiser switches to an independent front suspension (IFS), based on upper and lower control arms and longitudinal torsion bars. The latter mount to a frame crossmember via a floating member designed to control fore/aft stability of the EFS and limit road-induced NVH. For the vehicle to match its go-anywhere image, all critical running gear, including suspension lower control arms, mounts high. The rack-and-pinion steering gear mounts above the front crossmember, which also protects the engine oil pan and radiator. Both torsion bars are protected by a large skid plate. Minimum ground clearance is nearly 10 inches, and the Cruiser's suspension stroke is among the industry's longest: 200mm front, 240mm rear.

The new Cruiser's Aisin-supplied ABS operates even in 4-wheel low while the center diff is locked. The system is able to "read" road conditions and vehicle dynamics, decreasing the amount of anti-lock applied according to suspension travel, road gradient and abrupt changes in vehicle speed. Foundation brakes feature 4-piston calipers and 12.2-inch ventilated rotors in front, and huge 12.9-inch rear rotors.

Design/Engineering: Body

Also improving the overall structure, and the body's dimensional accuracy, are new one-piece bodysides, claimed by Toyota to be the largest on any light vehicle. The large panels replace the FJ80's two-piece welded bodysides. High-strength steel reinforces all pillars and door sills. Door and rear liftgate jambs are wider for improved ingress/egress and cargo loading.

Dynamically, the UJZ100's structural changes have wrought a vehicle devoid of any body flex or squeaks when flung over the roughest terrain we could find at Borrego Springs, a California desert off-road park that's far more amenable to motocross bikes and extreme dune buggies than luxury SUVs. Driven back-to-back versus a '97 FJ80 over washboard dirt roads, the '98 Cruiser's NVH attenuation is noticeably better. Toyota has added more melt-on asphalt sheeting to the floorpan, and has increased the amount of sound-deading urethane foam and pads injected into pillars and roof rails. On the highway, wind noise is lower due to faster (by three degrees) A-pillars, and new flush-mount windshield and rear quarter window glass.

The extra stiffness and refined manners come at a price, however--mass. The new, all-steel-bodied Cruiser weighs nearly 500 pounds more than its predecessor, mostly due to the chassis and body upgrades. Kondo says there was no plan to offset the added mass with lighter weight components, such as aluminum body panels. At nearly 6,500 pounds GVWR, the Cruiser is actually a medium-duty vehicle.

Powertrain: New V-8

Land Cruiser finally gets a V-8 (a first for any Toyota-badged vehicle), but the new 4.7L engine does not contribute to the new model's extra heft. Even with its cast-iron cylinder block, the dohc, 32-valve V-8 weighs 66 pounds less than the FJ80s 4.5L inline six.

Program boss Kondo admits he wasn't initially sold on the V-8. "We evaluated the (Lexus) aluminum-block car V-8 early on, but it did not have enough low- and midrange torque for our vehicle," he recalls.

So he chose displacement. The UJZ100 design spec required an iron block, with extensive ribbing for bulletproof durability. Manufacturing efficiency called for the Cruiser's block to be machined on the same Tahara plant line as the 4.0L Lexus car V-8. Thus both blocks share common bore centers, but the Cruiser's has the maximum displacement permitted by the Tahara line. The 94mm bore is 6.4mm larger and stroke, at 83.5mm, is 1mm longer than on the car V-8. Besides its iron block and more displacement, Toyota's new "truck V-8" also differs from its car cousins in combustion chamber shape (though valve angles are the same as the 4.0L), cam profiles, and intake manifold geometry. It has a stouter crankshaft, and the con rod big-end bearing shells are aluminum. Package efficiency was also critical; the V8's designers placed the water pump and starter motor inside the block's "vee" to save space.

Powerful 32-bit engine control and effective catalysis, plus Denso top-feed injectors and coil-on-plug ignition, help certify the new Cruiser as a Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) in California. Claimed output is 230 hp at 4,800 rpm, and 320 lb-ft of torque at 3,400. That's a boost of 18 hp and 45 lb-ft over the old inline 6. At presstime, city/highway fuel economy was estimated at 14/16 mpg, more frugal than with the six This basic V-8 will also power the '99 T100 pickup, although rumors persist that the T100 engine will have sohc cylinder heads.

As fits a true 4A, the '98 Cruiser retains a 2-speed Aisin transfer case (and 2.48:1 low range). U.S. market models only offer a 4-speed electronic automatic transmission, sourced by Aisin A-W, While the center and rear differentials are still (optional) "lockers," the Cruiser's new IFS with torsion bars forced the elimination of the FJ80's locking front diff.

Interior

A slightly wider and longer cabin features a subtly refined IP, and an increased array of storage areas overhead, in consoles and cubbies, and in the door panels. Rear seat legroom is up by nearly three inches, and front seats have almost two extra inches of fore/aft slide. There is also an engine immobilizer, a trio of 12-volt power outlets, and power swing-out rear windows.

Manufacturing

Land Cruisers are made the old-fashioned way. Chassis are fully assembled at Toyota's Honsha plant in Toyota City, then trucked across town to Araco, a Toyota kieretsu affiliate. Araco, which produces the company's Coaster minibus, stamps the massive one-piece bodysides on the largest press in Toyota's inventory. It also builds the Cruiser's body and assembles the vehicle.

RELATED ARTICLE: LEXUS LX470 FEATURES VARIABLE SUSPENSION, HEIGHT CONTROL

While the '98 Lexus LX470 shares its drivetrain and structure with the Toyota Land Cruiser, two chassis systems are exclusive to the Lexus. A variable height feature and adaptive suspension combine to give the luxury SUV an excellent combination of off-road ability and highway comfort.

The Automatic Height Control system consists of an electric pump, pressure accumulator and four frame-mounted gas reservoirs linked to the gas-filled shock absorbers. AHC uses a complicated set of tubes to connect all the hydraulic components. The system features a central accumulator that supplies pressurized gas to the four satellite gas chambers. Each chamber is connected to one of the shock absorbers. The LX470 rises and falls as the pressurized gas is channeled to and from the gas shocks.

A dashboard switch allows the choice of three heights: "Low," which means 8.7 inches ground clearance for the rear axle; "High" raises the LX470 two inches; "Super High" cranks it up another two inches. The suspension defaults to the low setting when the SUV is stationary and whenever the speed exceeds 19 mph. The system will neither raise nor lower the LX470 if any door is open.

The gas shocks also adjust continually to road input. Using the Active Variable Suspension system that bowed on the '97 ES300 sedan, each shock absorber adjusts individually through a range of 16 settings. The LX470's body controller can change the shock setting in as little as 2.5 milliseconds.


Great info Cdog! Thanks for posting.
 

ShottsCruisers

Explorer
Redline said:
Now things are getting interesting :)

I want to comment on engine torque and use, but first I will chime in on the subject of front axle. All things being equal (or similar) I would still prefer an live-axle with supple coil-springs over IFS merely for easy of travel and articulation. However, during my limited time with my 4Runner I do like the platform, most of the time, on AND off highway. The 4Runner is a better 'car' than all of my past 4x4s, what most of us use them for most of the time, and a very capable, comfortable expedition/travel vehicle when needed.

Engine:

Agreed that a lower torque peak is generally better for off-road. Torque is also what most of us want for acceleration from a stop in 'normal' driving. Having low-end torque is important, but having 'enough' torque and transmitting to the ground is critically related. The transmission and gearing play a critical role in helping or hurting the engine's performance.

The legendary low-end torque from the 4.0L straight-six in my previous LJ Rubicon was very nice on paper, but was simply not enough to easily overcome heavy modifications driving on-highway. Even unmodified the wind-catching Jeep LJ was 4000-lbs. Also, the late model engine programming from Jeep made the engine feel and perform poorly compared to previous versions of the same 242 cu.in. engine. Those who have experience with the late model Jeep 4.0L and V8 swaps say that the V8 Wranglers not only have more power, but get better MPG too. This is not surprising due to the fact that the more powerful engine (both HP and torque) has a much easier time motivating these tall, modified Jeeps. Though the torque peak may be higher than we sometimes think ideal, there is often a high percentage of that torque peak available at a low RPM. My LJ was underpowered for high altitude driving and wind with only 33s and the stock 4.10 gears. I swapped in 4.88s and it was much better, but it could still have used more torque and HP to hold speed on steep freeway climbs. (I would prefer a 4 or 6-cylinder turbo diesel.)

pskhaat: I'm not sure I understand your statement that "The 2UZ-FE's torque curve is too high and too flat." Too high, I understand, but usually people argue against a torque curve that has an abrupt peak, not one that is too flat?

Fast-forward to my current '06 4Runner with the 2UZ-FE V8 (the only platform with which I have experience with this engine). I searched for a 4Runner that had only the options I wanted, including the 4.7 V8. If I was going to keep my Toyota stock I would have preferred the potential fuel economy increase (EPA +2-MPG on-highway) of the V6, but figured that my real world fuel economy after heavy, aerodynamic-robbing modifications, would be very close to a V8. If the V8 had a 2WD mode it could be the same or better than a weighed down V6. Regardless of the possible MPG hit, I have more power available when I want or need it.

I only have the one graph for the 2UZ-FE engine, and I think this one is for a later model like I have. Torque peak is supposed to be 3400-RPM. It is listed as 306 lb.-ft. for the most recent model 4Runners (2007) or as high as 320-lb.-ft. for the earlier ones (Feds changed the rating rules). Current HP rating (2007) is 260 @ 5400.

With approximately 260 lb-ft torque available at 1000-RPM I have as much as the V6 would have (266) at its peak of 4000-RPM. Also more than the 4.0L 242-cu.in. Jeep motor in my last platform. I only wish the 4.7L V8 torque curve were even flatter, not falling off so dramatically after the 3400-RPM peak. Numbers aside, the little V8 runs great.

Some great points here. Thanks for posting.

I find these 80 vs 100 engine dicussions rediculous.

Torque curves
Low end grunt
Horsepower
Crawling
Accelleration
Off the line

After driving both vehicles on and off the highway the conclusion is simple.

The old 6 in the 80 is outdated, underpowered, rough and roaring at mid-to-high RPMS, and simply sub-par to the new V8.

Off the line, up the hills, ON THE TRAILS, LOADED DOWN, cruising.......the V8 simply blows the old 6 away. I just don't get these engine dicussions. :costumed-smiley-007
 

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