Here we go again! trying something new... lightweight toy hauler...

Itsavanman

Adventurer
so after my poor jeep scattered internal engine parts (260k), and my daily driver overheated, while stuck in the snow on the same day last winter(220k).. I decided to get a new vehicle that was a combination of the two. plunked down a serious chunk of change and got something with good mpg, a decent amount of ground clearance, and full time 4wd.. or as these new hipsters are calling it AWD. Joined the bland masses and bought a crossover SUV. but not just any suv, a hippie approved Subaru forester.

now before you ban me.. have a listen.. 25mpg, 2400 towing capacity, and room for lots of camping gear, ooh and a U-Shift-it transmission.. sounds good right? well the proof is in the pudding, while I'm not going to go rock crawling, this little buggy does pretty good towing all my crap and me and my girlfriend to the trails to go riding. It Did well on crappy unimproved roads, so yeah I think she'll do..

Now 2400 isn't that great, but after looking at the better capacity Australian forester of 1500kg (3300) and to note the diesel is rated at 1800kg (almost 4000lbs!!! please import that subie!) anyways, after some digging I found that the only difference is stiffer springs, which after talking with Subaru usa, looks like its a marketing thing, as most Americans don't want a truck like ride in the crossover. So after some searching, I found a set of uprated King springs, which should net a 30% increase in towing capacity. so now the number to stay under is 3120..

Shouldn't be too hard.. If Microlite can make a 14' enclosed toy hauler weigh 1000lbs surely I can build something this soft-roader can tow. now I don't have the coin to build a pretty much all aluminum toy hauler like Microlite did, but, If I plan this carefully, It should work.. I started looking at 18' and under hard sided campers, but most in my price range were way too heavy, most were around 2k lbs.. option b was a pop up toy hauler. so after some searching on Craigslist, I found a 4 person shasta pop up.. pretty crusty and in need of some fixes, but all in all, a good little camper, on the way home I weighed her.. 800lbs.

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The plan is to remove non essential things, like the axle and tongue, and plop it in the middle of the stripped camper frame. Reason for putting it in the middle, is I want to be able to tow this thing with or without the toys, so with a small deck front and rear, the weight distribution will stay correct. A quick weigh of the bare frame - 460lbs. So were now at 1260.. I know I will be under that, as the axle isn't staying on the camper, but I want to overestimate. after measuring, it seems of course that this camper frame is about 4' too short, so down to the welder I will go and the plan is to add the much needed 4 feet. I'm still looking for lighter decking, but for now I have decided on good old fashioned wood. calculated that out, the deck should weigh in at about 208lbs. That puts the total in at 1468. were going to be towing a yamaha blaster and honda 250r so they should add on 600lbs for a new total of 2068. Still under the US squishy spring rate of 2400.. The plan is to have this thing have a dry weight of 2400-2500 so theres room for gear, fuel, and us. first step is to get the bare frame ready for its new inhabitants, the brakes need attention, and its ugly, so next installment will be frame resto.. stay tuned..
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Curious to see the build. I've been towing with Subarus since 2001. Dont put any weight on Subaru max towing weights. Think of it as weight you can tow under Lab perfect conditions. 1800lbs is the max long haul weight most of us have found workable but any out side temps getting into the 80+ temps and decent head winds or climbs the cooling system is near maxed out. Adding a cooler to the transmission seems to help some but many of us think some of it is just added fluid capacity given it seems to just take a little longer before a temp spike happens. The 2010 and newer rigs are far better than the 09 and earlier, due to better engine tech, exhaust system, etc. My current set up is the Lifetime tent trailer 900lbs empty and were about 1300-1400 packed. Im guessing you have an older Forester given the newer one is 1500lb max because its on the new Impreza platform. The prior gen is on the old legacy platform with a heavier rating. Just watch running temps like a hawk if your getting into that 1800 and up range. I towed a 1800lb rig for 10yrs with my old subaru had to do heat mitigation steps many times to avoid a melt down, but the 2.5 was solid at 180,000 when we decided to get a new larger Subaru. They are good machines but just watch it on cooling system temps and going light, like really light pays big in ability to get where you want to go.
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
the cooling thing got me looking.. mines a 12 fb motor powered.. (the 1500kg rated in other markets) anyways, they all take the same radiator, but after digging I found the euro / international 2.0 diesel takes a radiator thats slightly larger, its longer by an inch, taller by an inch, and the same thickness, I'm wondering how much more that will really add, but I think its cheap insurance if those 16 square inches make that much of a difference.. not sure... but going to look into that...
 

TwinStick

Explorer
I think if you take a "double whammy" approach, you may get decent results. By that i mean an auxiliary transmission oil cooler and an auxiliary engine oil cooler. I did that approach with my 04 Dodge Ram 2500 hemi/auto & saw GREAT results towing 10,500 lbs. I doubled the size of transmission oil cooler & added a 30,000 GVWR engine oil cooler. Between the 2, i could pull a 6% grade on an 85* day pulling 10,500 lbs & the temp gauge would only go up the width of the needle, thats with my foot literally to the carpet, screaming in 2nd gear, all the way up.

I used this as an engine oil cooler. http://www.shop.perma-cool.com/1318-HD-Trans-Cooler-Coil-Only-30000-GVW-1318.htm ----An oil filter adapter. Had threaded hydraulic hoses made up. Made my own mount. Worked so good, i had to remove it in the winter time. Blocking it off with cardboard did not work. I still have the set up, but have not had to use it yet with my Power Wagon & manual G-56 trans. Maybe out west in summer though.
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
I have a manual, so a trans cooler is out of the question.. but oil cooler, that's not a bad idea, I bet I can use the radiator from the turbo model, that should have an oil cooler built in due to the turbo. or, I could look into the largest aluminum "racing" radiator that will fit, also for a turbo something rather, with a larger than stock cooler built in... I'm also thinking about putting a regular temperature gauge in, as all I have is an idiot light. I think the gauge is the first step. in the Subaru manual it does state that the limit is 1400lbs in a situation with large inclines, and high ambient temps.. so as the older Subaru's, the cooling system isn't the greatest...

onto progress report! the 16' trailer proved to be 4' too short to haul 2 toys.. so my old jetski trailer got the axe and donated its toung and rear portion, so that I could get that much needed 4'. With temps and humidity in the 90s it was a bit taxing, but a gallon of water and many breaks later.. we have something to work with!

tongue laid out to eyeball
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and rough fitted
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I'll still need about 18" of stick out for the coupler, but since the boat trailer had an adjustable toung, I'll cut off what I need. So so far so good.. this should add about 100lbs to the bare trailer....
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
well the last few days.. fun fun fun.. been working my job and this silly project for 3 days straight... new tongue is bolted in, and the rear extension is almost situated... still got some ends to cut off / straighten, and add some extensions.. but all the hard work is done, its almost time to roll the popup onto the frame. I was going to prop the trailer and roll it on, but now that I think about it, I think I'm going to build some wood ramps and support the trailer ends with some jackstands. couple pics of the progress.. and after weighing, were still at a hair under 2100.

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now just waiting for the lift kit, and new electric brakes to show up...
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
well.. Looks like I stand corrected.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/tow-me-down-1609112611

Right from this Very site!! lol :rolleyes:
towing in uk vs us.. looks like its a legislation thing more than anything, as "caravan" towing has a max speed of 60mph and the tongue weight is recomended 4-7% which casues (as some - most of us know) that lovely tail wagging the dog at higher speeds.. so that being said, using the stiffer spring in the rear should provide exactly what i want, high speed stability.. not that I ever go above 55 anyways when im towing anything more than 400lbs...
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
Pictures to follow this evening, but the axle flip kit and new electric brakes are installed, went swimmingly.. today should be the final fab day of the trailer frame.. temps are back in the 90s again.. great day for working.. ugh.. hopefully the humidity will be down (I hope I hope) I noticed that the rear portion of the frame is somewhat flimsy. Since I am double stacking the two camper frames, the popup frame should add some rigidity to the rear portion. I was trying to avoid side rails to save weight, but it seems like they may be needed to add reinforcement.. had a few days to contemplate how in gods name I am going to actually get the camper onto its new frame. had another brainstorm (more like a light drizzle) I think the easiest way would be to jack the camper up to trailer level, remove axle, and build a small platform that would also support the rear of the deck frame, and winch it on...
 

jmnielsen

Tinkerer
Winching it on would probably work. A couple other ideas would be jacking it up and backing the trailer under it, similar to a truck bed popup. Or, probably not as safe, but perhaps you could lift the camper up with a winch and a snatch block overhead and then back the trailer under and set it down?
 

jmnielsen

Tinkerer
Oh and since I decided to read the rest of the thread, for decking maybe you could use expanded metal with some 1" square tube supports. Depending on what wood you were planning on using it could be made lighter using expanded metal.
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
im just going to use 2 x 6's the weight savings was only going to be 100lbs or so, and a lot more money, so the nod went to wood.. as for getting the pup on the trailer, I had a duh moment once I went out to get it on there, take the wheels off the trailer.. it put the deck of the trailer about 10" above the ground.. just took some 2x6s and rolled it up.. it was super easy, until I was lifting it to take the camper axle off with highlifts.. it tilted and came crashing down.. whoops.. but no damage was done.. aside from my pride haha.. its almost all bolted down to the frame, just need to make a crossmember to tie the front in, and some extensions for the outside, then shes ready to use.. woo!
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
Got something that resembles what I sketched a month back.. Still need to make the wheel wells a tad bigger, and tidy up a few things, but mostly done!

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Itsavanman

Adventurer
everything almost done, wheel wells are done, ramps are built, just need to redo the lift arms, that's the plan for today, pics later :)
 

Itsavanman

Adventurer
that stuff looks pretty neat, might have to look into that once the original wood deck starts to rot.. that won't be for a while though..
 

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