Hit 'em where it hurts

[TigerPaw]

This link was posted on my local 4WD club forum:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=649637

Quite disturbing to know they would support a group with such an agenda.

 

[dennisuello]

We just had a Cabela's store open in town. I'll have to drop them a line.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Sadly, its a lose-lose situation for Cabelas. Not only do they supposedly support TU, they do support Tread Lightly. So they are supporting both sides of the issues. Not direct foes, but in some respects they are. Regardless, I'm all for supporting your opinions and writing Cabelas to voice them.

 

[Funrover]

CRAP CRAPITY CRAP CRAP CRAP!!! I like that store... but I also want Tellico to remain open!

 

[TigerPaw]

Got this info in a PM. It may be a little more helpful to our efforts:

"People are being stupid if they think for a second sending hate mail to a minimum wage CSR will do anything. Flood their media relations dept. with mail and calls. It is their job to care.

Investors:
Cabela's Incorporated
Chris Gay, 308-255-2905
or
Media:
Cabela's Incorporated
Joe Arterburn, 308-255-1204

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rol-governance

Not finding LL Bean"

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Trout Unlimited has done a lot of good things for wildlife and habitat conservation. I might not agree with them on everything, but then I don't agree with the NRA on everything either. Rather than try to pressure a company into totally dropping their support, why not just focus on the issue?

It's the easy way out to just announce, "Trout Unlimited is BAD." It continues the sort of polarization that will lead to losses of a lot more than Tellico.

I don't see why supporting Trout Unlimited and Tread Lightly should count as "both sides of an issue." The stated goal of TL is to minimize 4WD damage to public lands. If the situation at Tellico is causing damage to habitat or a watershed that extends beyond the boundaries of the trail (and I have no idea if that is so), then some sort of action is certainly called for, yes?

When conservation-minded sportsmen and 4WD owners have started fighting over public land issues, you know the polarization has gotten really bad. If TU jumped straight to a legal threat rather than trying to work with 4WD groups first (and I have no idea if that is so), then they are as much to blame.

 

[Hltoppr]

I'm in with Jonathan. I fully enjoy my 4WD, but, personally, would rather have prime trout habitat. I see both TU and TL as conservation organizations, and gladly support both.

-H-

 

[dnellans]

I'd love to see some more facts before taking a side on an issue like this. I both fish and explore, I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Where has the moderate middle gone

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I'm not writing the letter, Cabelas puts money into Tready Lightly and a bunch of programs. Looks like they just got caught "in the net" on this one...

They sell fishing gear too, it is in their interest to keep fishing areas in good shape and preserved so fisherman and people can keep coming back there! (Just like it is in our interest to be low impact on the trails so we can keep going there)...

Like anything in life a whole lot more compliated than it looks on the skin...

 

[dennisuello]

Repost from Pirate thread.

By Del Albright, Trail Boss, Friends of the Rubicon

Cabela's is cautious (and thoughtful)

I'm glad do see folks stepping up and writing letters on this. Our voice needs to be heard. But...and PLEASE do not shoot me for this, but here's another take on this.

Here's how I look at Cabela's -- they're smart. Now granted, being a sponsor of some of these groups, or having their logo hanging in the halls of Cabela's (like they do at the Reno store), sometimes gripes me. But some good ones are hanging there too.

Fact is, Cabela's ALSO supports us, hunting, fishing, and off road activities. They advertise in a wide array of magazines and venues. That is FAIR.

I've studied this to some extent. Let's take two BAD examples -- REI and Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. Not only do they not support us, they actively OPPOSE us. Now THAT is bad. Ford, Toyota, Chevy, Zuzu, you name it and these manufacturers are NOT supporting us, and in fact in almost all cases support green groups to some extent. Yet they do not actively oppose us. So do I like it? No? Do I quit buying Jeeps or Cruisers 'cause they ain't openly sponsoring us? No. They're playing a tuff political game.

Cabela's in our on team as best they can be, and help our groups by advertising and helping out when they can. Yet they still have to play the game fair and help these groups that lean a little too far from us at times. Trout Unlimited is one BAD example in my mind these days. They've gone green. I agree.

I write for big hunting and fishing magazines and I can tell you this. Mouthy greenies out number us. And they write to editors and such whinning about us -- OHV types. I once wrote a story about buck hunting in CA where I drove my Jeep to the end of a road, hiked out to this rock pile, and hunted from this stand of rocks. Got a nice buck too. This yo-yo writes in and snivels that the magazine was promoting road hunting by running my articles. Total CROCK. But that's a greenie attitude. Intolerance is their motto.

Anyway, I guess I"m saying we should give Cabela's a chance. Write them. Talk to someone. Get the scoop -- and the whole scoop. Because from what I see, they are not AGAINST us, and that is a big one in my book. I'll be anxious to hear what you all hear back from the Corporate folks.

Del

 

[TigerPaw]

Reading the replies, I can see both sides of the argument. I wholly support Tread Lightly and I am also an avid hunter. I believe the original point of contacting Cabela's was to ask them to completely drop their sponsorship of TU, but that was not my intent when I contacted them. My intent was to point out to them that maybe some of the groups' agenda was a little extreme and their overall sponsorship was helping to contribute to possibly closing down an area that is served by other customer's that they target. Seems it might give the 4WD community that does practice Tread Lightly a little leverage in trying to reach a compromise with these groups instead of having them punish everyone for a few bad apples. Especially when it regards large sponsor donations.

It is up to each of us to do what we will with this information because it may, ultimately, affect someone in a different area, but Dnellans was right with his comment:

"I'd love to see some more facts before taking a side on an issue like this. I both fish and explore, I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Where has the moderate middle gone?"

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I don't see why supporting Trout Unlimited and Tread Lightly should count as "both sides of an issue." The stated goal of TL is to minimize 4WD damage to public lands. If the situation at Tellico is causing damage to habitat or a watershed that extends beyond the boundaries of the trail (and I have no idea if that is so), then some sort of action is certainly called for, yes?...

Well for starters, one openly opposes many OHV routes and even furthermore OHV use in general, the other not only advocates for it, but goes a step further in education and awareness. In some Utah cases I have worked on, TU wants ALL vehicle waters crossings close (Forest Lake Trail in AF Canyon for example), whereas Tread Lightly has developed a protocol for crossing said rivers and streams in legal fords. Sounds opposite enough to me.

I clearly stated the two were not necissarily opposed in this exact case, but in many senses, they are the polar opposites. When it comes down to pro-motorized or anti-motorized, this definition is just. However I agree they are both conservation minded groups. I don't take an issue with TU as a whole, I too think they have done some great things, I do have reserves about some of their projects.

I don't know enough about the Tellico situation to comment, and its very likely TL doesn't either as their stronghold of members and advocacy is centered in the West (primarily Utah and Arizona). However I can comment on the shady dealings of the TU affairs here in Utah, specifically American Fork Canyon. As I mentioned above, TL and TU are on the opposite sides of the fence, and the irony is you pass a new Cabelas just a few miles from the mouth of the canyon

The polarization between sportsman and motorized users has been raging here in Utah for many years, not a surprise at all to see it pop us elsewhere.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Trout Unlimited has done a lot of good things for wildlife and habitat conservation. I might not agree with them on everything, but then I don't agree with the NRA on everything either. Rather than try to pressure a company into totally dropping their support, why not just focus on the issue?

It's the easy way out to just announce, "Trout Unlimited is BAD." It continues the sort of polarization that will lead to losses of a lot more than Tellico.

I don't see why supporting Trout Unlimited and Tread Lightly should count as "both sides of an issue." The stated goal of TL is to minimize 4WD damage to public lands. If the situation at Tellico is causing damage to habitat or a watershed that extends beyond the boundaries of the trail (and I have no idea if that is so), then some sort of action is certainly called for, yes?

When conservation-minded sportsmen and 4WD owners have started fighting over public land issues, you know the polarization has gotten really bad. If TU jumped straight to a legal threat rather than trying to work with 4WD groups first (and I have no idea if that is so), then they are as much to blame.

While I fully support protecting the environment TU lawsuit is based on lies.

The area has been working HARD to correct what problems there is. That included building bridges over the water crossing. The second of which is now in danger of NOT being built because of the lawsuit eating into the money that had been collected to build it.

The lie is one of the things they site as proof as to the damage the OHV is causing is a fish count. That fish count has been on a steady increase for the last 10 years. The past year the method (length) of the fish count was changed and as a result it made it appear that the count when down when it did not.

The really sick thing here is the OHV community is the only one with good turn out on clean ups. They are the ones that opened the place back up when Hurricane Opel beat the place up dropping hundreds of trees and closing the park. The FS did not have the money or manpower to take care of it. It was ALL OHV users that donated their time and not only opened it back up the FS made money on the deal for improvements via the ISTEA programs.


If the OHV community had not opened the place back up then most of the places the TU members are using would not be accessible today.

Ohh and the Town of Murphy NC is dependant on the OHV and the seasonal closure has put a BIG hurt on that towns economy.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

As I said at the beginning, I don't agree with everything TU does, just as I do not agree with everything the OHV community in general does. That should be the nature of negotiation - instead it has become an excuse for polarization.

Trout Unlimited has been involved in dozens, if not hundreds, of clean-ups and restoration projects. If this case is truly based on "lies," I expect that will be revealed.

 

[DesertRose]

After reading most of the websites and posts (on Pirate), I'm equally distressed as several of the other posters here that once again polarization is winning the day. It's the emotion of land use, I think, that does it. No one thing or organization or business is "pure" good or bad.

Cabela's is a huge corporation that's trying to do the right thing. TU and TL are great organizations trying to do the right thing according to their missions. But in the lens of polarization, people try to see things only as black and white. TU is bad. TL is bad. TU is good. TL is good. You can see that philosophy on the Pirate posts - lumping "greenies" into one side and OHV users on the other, as though we who like 4x4 exploration can't also be greenies.

Locally at Tellico, many users like GrimReaper are trying to do their best, but get beat up when lawsuits are threatened or filed.

In Arizona, I've worked with TU on a restoration of the East Fork of the Black River - we created amazing blue ribbon native Arizona trout fishing habitat, it's fantastic. Our TU team was NOT political. In other places, the members are more political.

In the end, it's never a simple black and white issue - we should just try to take each issue separately, as Jonathan states, rather than try to just yell at Cabela's or TL or TU in general.

This would help in the polarization wars.