HJZ79 in the U.S.?

[cruiser guy]

I'm currently living in Sierra Leone and working with an NGO.

Someone, for reasons I'll never fully understand, decided to send over a 2001 F350 4x4 cab and chassis with the work truck bed (cubbyholes and all that sort of thing). According to the odometer the truck might have covered 15,000 miles since arriving 2 1/2 years ago. I don't think it even has 80,000 miles on it yet. It can't handle the quality of fuel well and we have had the fuel tank out of the truck 3-4 times to clean the in-tank filter/fuel pump or it barely runs (it'll be having the tank out again here shortly). We now filter ALL the fuel the truck gets. The ball joints nearly fell apart already and we've replaced one side (try that on the side of the road!). It drives like crap right now. To put it simply, it is NOT a truck made for Africa. I bet it doesn't last more than another year or two before it is beat to death. If there were parts readily one might be able to nurse it along for another year or two beyond that. Guess what it's replacement will likely be? :victory: A '70 series pickup!

I compare the way the Ford is put together with my '82 LandCruiser BJ60 which we have had for close to 25 years and has 6 times the miles of the Ford. The LandCruiser is built to take whatever you throw in front of it. The axles and everything is made to be serviced in the middle of nowhere. My Land Cruiser has spent 5 years in Guatemala and now a year in Sierra Leone not to mention off-roading at home in Canada as well. There is NO WAY the Ford would have lasted that long in these same conditions.

Would I take an HJZ79 at home in Canada if I had need or desire for a pickup??

ABSOLUTELY!! Had it been available back when I had my '89 Dodge Cummins I'd have traded the Dodge for a '70 series diesel pickup in a heartbeat! I'll grant that the Cummins is a tough engine but the Dodge truck....

It's built to last and endure most anything you throw at them and the American trucks are frankly not.

 

[charlieaarons]

I gave up on Toyota USA importing the "good Landcruisers" a long time ago.
I bought a 79 BJ40 in Canada new; it still runs (it is now legal under the 25 year rule!)
I am buying a "HZJ79" (sort of) "new" - from Proffitts. New body, rebuilt motor and drivetrain, FJ62 axles w/lockers, lengthened galvanized 60/62 series frame. Price: about what a new HZJ79 would cost if they did import them. 255/85R16s; later I'll put a set of 8.25R16 XZLs on it that I have.

Charlie

 

[roscoFJ73]

the people who think a 70 is a better pickup either dont use pickups or are dreamers of one sort or another.

say you need a one ton for a job...

f350 6.7 diesel or a seventy series.... really? if you think they compare, youre an idiot.

there isnt a single statistic, including longevity, that the 70 will beat it. a 70 wont carry near the same load, wont tow the same load, wont be as comfortable... nothing. its a small heavy duty truck in place that has no use for a small heavy duty truck because we have the space to use large heavy duty trucks.

its just a bunch of people that want what they cant have here, and wouldnt buy one when presented with the price tag and the reality that they dont have a single use for it besides the fun of answering gawker questions while picking up a load of mushroom manure, that would have fit just as well in a ford ranger. if toyota rolled this out they would have an edsle on their hands and they know it.

im not sure who the bigger wannabe is, the guy that has the 1/2 ton quad cab king ranch, or the people that keep bemoaning the 70 series, as if they have a use a tacoma wouldnt fill anyway.

They sell the 70 and the F series fords in australia and they are not in the same class in terms of power or comfort. But when you want to go offroad or on our long desert tracks no one takes an F series.
Not the police,not the mining companies,not the tourist.
Last time I was parked on the side of the road in central australia ,a middle aged woman pulled up to see if I was ok.
You know what she was in, a Landcruiser 79 series,with the shopping in the back 300 miles from home
The 70 series is probably one of the few vehicles in the world that can carry its full load offroad for days,months years on end.
I did 600 klms on one of the toughest roads there is last year with 1100kgs on the back.
The damage,one screw fell out in the glovebox but it had been loose for a year.

All those other things are pretend 4wds,you dont need 400hp when the max safe speed is 30-40 klms an hour.
Look at Africa,when was the last time you some pretty boy 4wd handing out food packages in some god forsaken place or charging across the desert with a big cannon stuck on the back.
I just bought my 3rd 70 series this week,all 1HZ non turbo. None of them have ever let me down. One had a flat battery and there has been a alternator and clutch replacement.
Those big american trucks are highway trucks with a front diff.

 

[Scott Brady]

I am buying a "HZJ79" (sort of) "new" - from Proffitts. New body, rebuilt motor and drivetrain, FJ62 axles w/lockers, lengthened galvanized 60/62 series frame. Price: about what a new HZJ79 would cost if they did import them. 255/85R16s; later I'll put a set of 8.25R16 XZLs on it that I have.

Charlie

Sweet - that is the same 'build' of 79 we are using on E7. You will like it.

 

[roscoFJ73]

The main problem besides lack of enough buyers here for such a vehicle, is the fact that these trucks are not designed to meet any required safety standards, and to do so would mean a redesign of the vehicle which would change it into something more like other American 4x4's and trucks, i.e. not a Land Cruiser 70. This is the same reason the Defender has never come here in any significant numbers, and why the next Defender, if it comes here, will be a much different vehicle from the one we all know and love.

The Land Cruiser 70 is way outdated technology, and has been from the beginning. That's why it works in third world countries so well. It's basic and durable and can be repaired by anyone, and its normally aspirated diesels can run on any quality fuel, meaning poor quality, found in its markets. It's slow, but reliable. This is the way of the Land Cruiser 70. Is it the best performing 4x4 in a technical sense, or the most comfortable to drive? Not by a long shot. Most other serious professional market vehicles, like the Defender and the Gelandewagen outperform it off-road. It's the simplicity and reliability that keep it on Toyota's production list in certain markets where it is appreciated. I don't think it would be here in the U.S.

David

What a load of mis informed rubbish .The 70 series has had airbags since 2009 and even the old 1HZ can out run the turbo defenders year for year and the new V8 70 series can out run them all
If the landrover Defender is such a devastating vehicle,why doesnt anyone buy it ,even when it is $10000 cheaper?
Sales have fallen to one Defender to about 400 70 series in australia.
If you think the 70 series is outdated,what the hell would you call a defender? You still have to drive with your shoulder jammed hard against the window after 60 years,how much more time do they need?
It wasnt until 2007 that LR managed to get the aircon working right.Toyota worked that one out in 84 with the 1st 70 series and have not changed it because it works so great.
I did a long range trip through the centre at the wrong time of year in 07. Couldnt have done it without Toyota aircon.

I use to go out with a Defender owner on the weekends. His defender was a 94,my 75 series was a 95.
I could outrun him in any situation on or offroad.
It was such a pile of junk his wife refused to ride in it,even after huge repair bills.
His repair bills at 200000klms were about $6000,mine at the same mileage come to under $500 for an alternator and front shock absorbers and 80000klms later I have only done the clutch,brakes and steering joints.

Technology is not outdated until there is something better to replace it with.

 

[DaveInDenver]

That's why it works in third world countries so well

It's basic and durable and can be repaired by anyone

It's slow, but reliable

Is it the best performing 4x4 in a technical sense, or the most comfortable to drive?

It's the simplicity and reliability that keep it on Toyota's production list in certain markets where it is appreciated. I don't think it would be here in the U.S.

You've described the cars and trucks Toyota sold here starting in the 1960s into the middle 1990s. The 1979 to 1995 Pickup was the Hilux (less diesels most years, the only major deficiency) in the rest of the world. These traits are /exactly/ why Toyota did well here (simple, reliable, affordable) and why I think they struggle as they diverge from them. They live from the perception they created back then but are losing core customers created back then (me for example, they have not offering anything compelling for me to replace my 22 year old Hilux). At the core, people here are no different than the rest of the world. I think a D4D Tacoma would sell like crazy and I think a real utility 4Runner or Cruiser would sell well, too. They've taken the Cruiser so far upscale that they sell a few hundred a year into a market that devoured 40, 60 and 80 series, which weren't cheap in their day but nothing like a new 200 series.

 

[doug720]

My sister has a 3 year old Camry and it's starting to fail miserably with only 56K miles! Both front struts changed by dealer 2x's, power door locks don't work, cd player stopped working, rattles, ac compressor dies 2 weeks ago...

I love my 60 Series LandCruiser and have had many Toyota's over the years, but newer Toyota's, and most other new cars, are great for a couple of years, then it's down hill. In the old day's it was nickles and dimes to repair them, now its hundreds and thousands to fix the new cars. When the warranty is over, time to think about selling them.

The mechanical's are mostly solid, but the electronics are the down fall. We have an Infinity M35s and the AC compressor electronic pressure sensor for the climate control system failed last week. To repair, you must replace the compressor. This is a Denso compressor, but this model is only available from the dealer and it goes for $748.00 + Tax! All for a bad sensor.

I don't think we will see the vehicles built since about 2000 around when they are 25 or more years old. The parts to make/keep them running will be too expensive... if you can find them! It is already hard to find many ECU type parts for many common and relatively new cars. My neighbor has an 2001 Tahoe and all that is available are used/rebuilt ECU's and ECM's. So far their mechanic has been through 6 of them and getting ready to try number 7!

Plus, the auto manufacturers, AQMD, EPA and most environmental groups don't want us driving old cars. Cars are becoming like computers and cell phones...throw them away and buy a new one when they break as they are obsolete.

JMHO,

Doug
A mechanical guy in a digital world...who uses an I-Pad!

 

[Scott Brady]

Our 2012 VDJ78s have airbags and side impact beams. Having been a fireman for four years, I am glad they have both.

Regarding the comments of performance on the dirt comparing the Defender with the 70 series, the Defender will outperform the 70 if both are stock and both are open diff. The 70 has a slight advantage with the differential locks, now made nearly mute with the Defender having traction control. The Defender also rides much better.

You buy a 70 Series because they are strong and reliable. That is the advantage of the platform.

The debate is typical: Someone buys something and now it is the best thing ever, until they sell it. If you own a Defender, it is the best. If you own a 70 series, it is the best. It is understandable, given the investment people make in cars, but reality is often quite different.

Is the 70 Series more reliable than a Defender: Absolutely
Will an HZJ7X outrun a Td5: Absolutely not
Will a VDJ7X smoke them all: Absolutely
Is a 7X better in the dirt than a Defender: With diff locks, marginally. Overall, the Defender is better in the dirt. The new Defenders with traction control are on par with the 7X with diff locks. The Defender has better articulation, better stability, better low range gearing, better approach and departure angles.

For Context: I drove a Td5 Defender for years and am now driving a VDJ78 RTW. I raced a PZJ73 in the Outback Challenge and drove a 300tdi Defender all over Chile and Argentina.

 

[Containerized]

Scott - I agree re the Defender vs. Cruiser comparison; the differences are small enough to come down to environment and driver more than vehicle most of the time... or spares availability in the markets you're headed to. One of the biggest differences in usability between the Defender and 70 Series, to me, is the packaging of the load area. Depending what you want to do, and how you want to carry what you're carrying, that could be a deciding factor in building out an expedition vehicle. If I were doing long-haul, no-resupply-for-long-periods trips (which I'm not), I'd seriously consider building out a two-man 130 just because the Defender is slightly easier (boxier) in the back for designing interior storage.

 

[trailsurfer]

I gave up on Toyota USA importing the "good Landcruisers" a long time ago.
I bought a 79 BJ40 in Canada new; it still runs (it is now legal under the 25 year rule!)
I am buying a "HZJ79" (sort of) "new" - from Proffitts. New body, rebuilt motor and drivetrain, FJ62 axles w/lockers, lengthened galvanized 60/62 series frame. Price: about what a new HZJ79 would cost if they did import them. 255/85R16s; later I'll put a set of 8.25R16 XZLs on it that I have.

Charlie

Nice Charlie. What is the estimated delivery date?

I had one of the Proffitts HZJ79's here at the house a month ago. They build a wonderful truck, it was fantastic.

 

[haven]

The question is not whether the Toytoa 79 diesel pickup is an excellent vehicle for overland travel. Rather, the OP asked why Toyota does not import diesel 79s to North America.

The OP wrote, "I have to think there is space in the North American market for a utilitarian pickup with strong, easy-to-maintain diesels...[such as] Toytoa Land Cruiser 79 with manual transmission and D4D diesel engine."

Answers proposed so far include
-- too expensive after 30% "chicken tax" tariff on trucks built outside North America
-- no advantage to medium size trucks in USA, when you can buy a full size for the same money
-- USA trucks are durable enough for conditions here, so no market for an extra-durable truck at a premium price
-- if the 79 were outfitted to meet USA emissions and safety requirements, it would no longer be inexpensive or easy to repair
-- the four cylinder D4D, with about 250 ft lb of torque, is not suitable for the higher road speeds in USA and macho attitudes of USA pickup drivers

Can you think of other reasons why Toyota is not selling the Land Cruiser 79 in North America?

 

[David Harris]

Our 2012 VDJ78s have airbags and side impact beams. Having been a fireman for four years, I am glad they have both.

Regarding the comments of performance on the dirt comparing the Defender with the 70 series, the Defender will outperform the 70 if both are stock and both are open diff. The 70 has a slight advantage with the differential locks, now made nearly mute with the Defender having traction control. The Defender also rides much better.

You buy a 70 Series because they are strong and reliable. That is the advantage of the platform.

The debate is typical: Someone buys something and now it is the best thing ever, until they sell it. If you own a Defender, it is the best. If you own a 70 series, it is the best. It is understandable, given the investment people make in cars, but reality is often quite different.

Is the 70 Series more reliable than a Defender: Absolutely
Will an HZJ7X outrun a Td5: Absolutely not
Will a VDJ7X smoke them all: Absolutely
Is a 7X better in the dirt than a Defender: With diff locks, marginally. Overall, the Defender is better in the dirt. The new Defenders with traction control are on par with the 7X with diff locks. The Defender has better articulation, better stability, better low range gearing, better approach and departure angles.

For Context: I drove a Td5 Defender for years and am now driving a VDJ78 RTW. I raced a PZJ73 in the Outback Challenge and drove a 300tdi Defender all over Chile and Argentina.

One should also add that VDJ7X is not available in many places and its fuel economy is much less than other smaller TD's, like the Defender. Can't help wishing the reliability of the LC was available in the Land Rover. That would be the ultimate.

Otherwise, all of your points are well illustrated in this South African review of the two vehicles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMhOhT5nwZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptiE501ZdwM

 

[Scott Brady]

Answers proposed so far include
-- too expensive after 30% "chicken tax" tariff is imposed on light trucks built outside North America
-- no advantage to medium size trucks in USA, when you can buy a full size for the same money
-- USA trucks are durable enough for conditions here, so no market for an extra-durable truck at a premium price
-- if the 79 were outfitted to meet USA emissions and safety requirements, it would no longer be inexpensive or easy to repair
-- the four cylinder D4D, with about 250 ft lb of torque, is not suitable for the higher road speeds in USA and macho attitudes of USA pickup drivers

Those are all fair considerations. I do not see the 79 being viable in the US. Now a VDJ76! That is another story. It would be the perfect TLC for Toyota to import and give Jeep some competition.

 

[Containerized]

Haven - Good summary of the thread, thanks for doing that.

I don't buy the "chicken tax" argument when I look at the luxury SUV market. When you look at vehicles like the Prado/GX/TX and Touareg/Cayenne that are built overseas, they compete admirably against vehicles like the ML/X5/etc. that are built in the American southeast and do not have the tariff penalty. And, if Toyota wanted to optimize around that factor alone, they have plenty of American manufacturing capacity that is building FAR more complex-to-build vehicles than the 70 Series. Having been to many, many modern auto factories (over twenty?), building a 70 Series is a piece of cake compared to building many of the vehicles Toyota builds in the United States.

 

[Scott Brady]

One should also add that VDJ7X is not available in many places and its fuel economy is much, much, much, much, much less than other smaller TD's, like the Defender.

Corrected that for you