HJZ79 in the U.S.?

cruiser guy

Explorer
The question is not whether the Toytoa 79 diesel pickup is an excellent vehicle for overland travel. Rather, the OP asked why Toyota does not import diesel 79s to North America.

The OP wrote, "I have to think there is space in the North American market for a utilitarian pickup with strong, easy-to-maintain diesels...[such as] Toytoa Land Cruiser 79 with manual transmission and D4D diesel engine."

Answers proposed so far include
-- too expensive after 30% "chicken tax" tariff on trucks built outside North America
-- no advantage to medium size trucks in USA, when you can buy a full size for the same money
-- USA trucks are durable enough for conditions here, so no market for an extra-durable truck at a premium price
-- if the 79 were outfitted to meet USA emissions and safety requirements, it would no longer be inexpensive or easy to repair
-- the four cylinder D4D, with about 250 ft lb of torque, is not suitable for the higher road speeds in USA and macho attitudes of USA pickup drivers

Can you think of other reasons why Toyota is not selling the Land Cruiser 79 in North America?

How about "They want to keep selling you new vehicles rather than have you drive around in your 20 or 30 year old durable Land Cruiser diesel!" How many American made vehicles are still drivable after 30 years in "daily driver" status? Our roads don't punish a vehicle like the roads in the rest of the world so a tough vehicle like a '70 series would never wear out!

Our '82 Land Cruiser BJ60 is still our primary vehicle and has been since I bought it used in 1988 or 1989! It's been with us for the 5 years we were in Central America and it is now with us in Sierra Leone, West Africa and it will be transporting us through West Africa to Germany next spring! When we return to Canada it will come back with us.

In Canada there is nothing currently available from Toyota that would have me replacing it. Now if they brought in some of the diesel Land Cruisers like the '70 series for instance then I might consider it when the time comes.
 

jham

Adventurer
I can't believe you were in my town (Jinja) and I missed you. I'll be back on that side of the pond soon and want to come check out that Tacoma (and drive that FJ if you still have it!)
 

jham

Adventurer
Look at Africa,when was the last time you some pretty boy 4wd handing out food packages in some god forsaken place or charging across the desert with a big cannon stuck on the back.
I just bought my 3rd 70 series this week,all 1HZ non turbo. None of them have ever let me down.

Our 70 series with that 1HZ naturally aspirated is a monster. You simply can't beat the feeling of chugging through villages with that platform - it's bliss.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
You've described the cars and trucks Toyota sold here starting in the 1960s into the middle 1990s. The 1979 to 1995 Pickup was the Hilux (less diesels most years, the only major deficiency) in the rest of the world. These traits are /exactly/ why Toyota did well here (simple, reliable, affordable) and why I think they struggle as they diverge from them. They live from the perception they created back then but are losing core customers created back then (me for example, they have not offering anything compelling for me to replace my 22 year old Hilux).

Nothing Dave? The first gen Tacoma is quite a bit better than your HiLux...both the 4 cylinder and V6 are proving to be more durable than the 22R, plus more power, the coil suspension is a major improvement over torsion bar. The 2nd Gen Tacoma isn't half bad either. The 4.0 is even better than the 3.4. The OP Containerized seems confident enough to get one for Africa...while he has the HiLux and the 70's series to choose from.

Sure I would love a 70's series (and then again maybe not, no extra cab model)...have agree with Haven it is a very small niche for the American market, and Toyota knows this. Modern gassers are just as durable as diesels...maybe even more so. Might be a bit down on fuel economy...but when you add on the upcharge of diesel engines...and diesel fuel cost more here...those injectors aren't exactly cheap to replace either. So overall cost of ownership is pretty much a wash.

I have owned many base model vehicles in my time, no AC, leaf sprung...power nothing. Maybe I am getting old, but I like power windows, AC, and the other creature comforts...still like manual transmissions though...a nav system is awfully nice too, saves a heck of a lot of time.
 
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kfgk14

Adventurer
The Jeep JK sells, and sells a lot. How many did they sell last year? 150k? And the JK8 is making a big splash, I know of two in my area. Clearly the utilitarian nature of those vehicles (in terms of off-road performance) is selling just fine. Of course, the 70 series does take utilitarian a step further, but I'd buy one. It's got AC, it's go 4wd, it's got a radio. I can install the rest. Most people I know don't even use the CD/tape deck/AM-FM radios, they use satellite radio or an iPod jack. Just put a radio and a 1/8" mini-phone jack (technical jargon for headphone jack) in the truck. That's what most people want. leave an opening in the dashboard for installing a CD player/nav/DVD system if that's what people want, and make it an option from the factory. Advertise the incredible value you get when you buy a truck that will go, in all likelihood, many hundreds of thousands of miles further than a comparable F150/Dodge RAM/GM truck, and do so on worse roads with lower maintenance costs and better reliability. Even with the increasing cost of diesel, getting 25+mpg in a 70-series for many hundreds of thousands of miles (albeit in a more expensive truck) is cheaper long-term than getting 18mpg for 150k, then having to go buy another US truck. If you want a truck to do what a truck does in a utilitarian capacity, where do modern big-3 trucks outperform the 70-series?
 

Clutch

<---Pass
The Jeep JK sells, and sells a lot. How many did they sell last year? 150k? And the JK8 is making a big splash, I know of two in my area. Clearly the utilitarian nature of those vehicles (in terms of off-road performance) is selling just fine. Of course, the 70 series does take utilitarian a step further, but I'd buy one. It's got AC, it's go 4wd, it's got a radio. I can install the rest. Most people I know don't even use the CD/tape deck/AM-FM radios, they use satellite radio or an iPod jack. Just put a radio and a 1/8" mini-phone jack (technical jargon for headphone jack) in the truck. That's what most people want. leave an opening in the dashboard for installing a CD player/nav/DVD system if that's what people want, and make it an option from the factory. Advertise the incredible value you get when you buy a truck that will go, in all likelihood, many hundreds of thousands of miles further than a comparable F150/Dodge RAM/GM truck, and do so on worse roads with lower maintenance costs and better reliability. Even with the increasing cost of diesel, getting 25+mpg in a 70-series for many hundreds of thousands of miles (albeit in a more expensive truck) is cheaper long-term than getting 18mpg for 150k, then having to go buy another US truck. If you want a truck to do what a truck does in a utilitarian capacity, where do modern big-3 trucks outperform the 70-series?


The JK sells because of its' image, not because it is utilitarian. Remember, most Americans care about looks over function...I see many a 2WD model driving around here. (Really, what is the point of owning a 2WD Jeep?) Look at the H2 Hummer when the economy was rocking...never seen so many street queens in my life.

The CD/AM/FM radio comment is kinda scary...means I am getting old! LOL (I don't use mine anymore either...) iPod or Pandora through the smart phone using a 3.5mm jack that is. :ylsmoke:


The 70 series isn't a half ton truck...it would compete against the 1 tons. First it doesn't come in enough cab options in the truck form, Americans usually have a couple kids, or use those for work. Why we see more extra cabs and crew cabs running around than regular cabs. Even in the 1/2 ton market...it is rare to see a regular cab anymore. Having owned a couple regular cabs, and now have an extra cab, I am not going back...might upgrade to a crew actually.

It would in between the 1/2 ton and the 1 tons...just don't see it selling well at its' price point. People want 400 HP 1/2 tons, as Ford can't build those V6 EcoBoost fast enough, and 3/4-1 tons with 800 ft.lbs TQ, where the 70 is powered like a Tacoma. The LC is going to cost what...$50-70K if it is imported? People say they would buy one...well that is, after 10-15 years of depreciation.

So that leaves us with the 3 door and the wagon. With the limited interior access of the 3 door...I don't see that doing well here, consumers just buy vans.

The wagon "might" work...but why would Toyota add another wagon to their lineup, when they have the 200, Sequoia, 4Runner, Highlander, Rav4, and the FJCruiser?
Even with that line up...those don't see much off road action by the average consumer. Heck most people would do fine with a station wagon, but since a SUV is cooler
that is why they sell more. (It is all about image.) Well, until gas prices rise, then people look for something that has better fuel economy..but would rather have an SUV if they could afford it.

Americans really don't care about value and long term savings...they want the latest and the greatest...just look how successful Apple has become because of their business plan...don't they release a "new" product about every three months? It is the way of consumerism...it doesn't work, if people aren't constantly buying an upgrade.

The 70 series while a great vehicle, won't be profitable here in the States for Toyota. We can talk about it until the cows come home, Toyota will never bring them here. Only way for an American to buy a new one...is to move, or have Proffitt's assemble one.
 
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haven

Expedition Leader
OK, two more reasons added to the list why Toyota wouldn't be successful selling the Land Cruiser 79 in USA:

mentioned before
-- too expensive after 30% "chicken tax" tariff on trucks built outside North America
-- no advantage to medium size trucks in USA, when you can buy a full size for the same money
-- USA trucks are durable enough for conditions here, so no market for an extra-durable truck at a premium price
-- if the 79 were outfitted to meet USA emissions and safety requirements, it would no longer be inexpensive or easy to repair
-- the four cylinder D4D, with about 250 ft lb of torque, is not suitable for the higher road speeds in USA and macho attitudes of USA pickup drivers

-- USA drivers don't keep their trucks for decades, so the durability of the 70 series is not valued
-- the 79 doesn't have the cab options (extended cab, double cab) USA customers want/need
 

Clutch

<---Pass
-- the 79 doesn't have the cab options (extended cab, double cab) USA customers want/need

I did notice the 2012 Tacoma now has a crew cab available in 2WD...and not the Prerunner version. Saw one last week in traffic.

Not finding an image on google, but I believe you can "build your own" on the Toyota website.

edit: here you go
 

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kfgk14

Adventurer
The 70 series while a great vehicle, won't be profitable here in the States for Toyota. We can talk about it until the cows come home, Toyota will never bring them here. Only way for an American to buy a new one...is to move, or have Proffitt's assemble one.

Ugh...I hate it..but you're right. If we didn't have a retarded tariff on import trucks, and if non-full-size diesels were easier to own, it could sell. Perhaps not a lot initially, but put it in the right marketing campaign and I think you'd sell a lot of them in rural farmland areas, if they weren't so damn expensive with an import tariff and diesel regs!

So, what's a Proffitt 70-series cost?
 

MattScott

Approved Vendor
I'd drive an F250 over a HZJ79 all day long. They're really just not well suited for North America, even turbocharged the 1HZ is kinda a turd.
 

Navman

Adventurer
After reading this thread I'm beginning to question my U.S citizenship status. I've told that Americans:

-only buy cars for looks
-need to have the biggest
-need t0 have the most powerful
-don't want diesel
-would never buy smaller when larger is available.
-don't want to keep thier vehicles long
-etc., etc.

I feel like I don't belong here anymore. Almost un-American.

Sounds like the same drivel the car company marketing department drone on about. I mean, like, you can never sell a small diesel car in the U.S. What the heck was VW thinking trying to sell a diesel Jetta. I bet they haven't sold one all year.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
After reading this thread I'm beginning to question my U.S citizenship status. I've told that Americans:

-only buy cars for looks
-need to have the biggest
-need t0 have the most powerful
-don't want diesel
-would never buy smaller when larger is available.
-don't want to keep thier vehicles long
-etc., etc.

I feel like I don't belong here anymore. Almost un-American.

Sounds like the same drivel the car company marketing department drone on about. I mean, like, you can never sell a small diesel car in the U.S. What the heck was VW thinking trying to sell a diesel Jetta. I bet they haven't sold one all year.


I have felt like I don't belong here for years....totally out of step with the average American.

Drive a 13 year old truck (and plan on keeping it for a long time ahead) like
shifting my own gears and transfer case, but like AC, power windows, and EFI. (Ok maybe have a little "average" desires)



minor_threat_out_of_step.jpg


A F150 outsells a VW TDI Jetta by leaps and bounds...it isn't like they don't sell them, just in the big scheme of things they really don't make a dent.
Same with hybrids, they only make up 2-3% of the market share.

Question is: Will diesel be legal in the US in 15 years?
 
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Clutch

<---Pass
Ugh...I hate it..but you're right. If we didn't have a retarded tariff on import trucks, and if non-full-size diesels were easier to own, it could sell. Perhaps not a lot initially, but put it in the right marketing campaign and I think you'd sell a lot of them in rural farmland areas, if they weren't so damn expensive with an import tariff and diesel regs!

So, what's a Proffitt 70-series cost?

If a LC70 was assembled here...and at the same price point as the Tacoma...I would say "maybe" it would have a chance. Market it at the mid-size truck buyer.
Or have the Tacoma on the 70's chassis...so you get cab options, then it really isn't a 70 then, or ditch the Tacoma platform altogether...that isn't going to happen though.

I really like my extra cab...I could make a LC70 chassis cab with a 7' bed work...but man it would be a tough choice between that and a Ex-Cab Taco, if
both were available.

I am guessing a Proffitt's is around $70K....(but don't take my word on that, only guesstimating)
 
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Clutch

<---Pass
Significantly less.

Charlie

I am buying a "HZJ79" (sort of) "new" - from Proffitts. New body, rebuilt motor and drivetrain, FJ62 axles w/lockers, lengthened galvanized 60/62 series frame. Price: about what a new HZJ79 would cost if they did import them.

Charlie

As my guesstimates are going off a new Chassis Cab in AUS converting it to USD....import fluff tax, out the door, including dealer fees, tax, license etc...

Charlie are you going with leaf sprung or coils for the front suspension?
 
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