How Long Should A WInch Line Be?

[madizell]

How much line you can reasonably use on a winch depends on the design of the winch. An 8274 has a very open drum and is forgiving of packing cable on one end or the other, as there are no support bars across the drum to limit how high the line can pile up. Most lay-down's won't tolerate that, so you have to monitor their use, stop, and relay the cable or rope on the drum every few feet if you are doing a long pull with lots of line out. If you have a lay down winch buried in a front bumper where you can't clearly see the drum as it packs up, having a lot of line won't be much of a benefit.

Still, I don't think there is one answer to the question. Depends a lot on you, how you use your winch, where you drive, how many people you go out with, what kind of terrain you like to drive in, and so on. While I don't see a reason to try to over pack a winch unless you know you will need a lot of line out most of the time, it is up to you. If you compete in winch challenges, go for all the line you can handle. If you don't, I would not go out of my way to see how much line a drum could hold. It is just as easy to use 80 feet of winch line and the balance of your needs made up with extensions as it is to juggle 150 feet of line on a drum which you have to constantly rewind just to keep the strands laying down straight.

As for having reduced pulling power with a loaded drum, it is a fact of physics, but not necessarily a problem on the trail. Unless you get really deeply stuck, you will find that you can get over or out of whatever you are in with a nice 2,000 pounds of pull out of your 8,000 pound winch. Look at the rating table for your winch, and you will probably find that even wrapped to the top, your winch puts out 6,000 pounds of pull. That should get you out of most problems.

 

[cnynrat]

Some good real-world advice here. I didn't realize I could get specs on pull for each layer (doh!), but sure enough they're right there. In my case it's a 9.5ti, and on layer 5 I'll still have almost 7000 pounds, so there doesn't seem to be much cause for concern regarding pulling out of most situations off the outer layers.

Also, point well taken about not stuffing the winch with so much line that it becomes a hassle to get all the line back on the winch properly.

 

[Mickldo]

If you are doing a recovery where you need the full capacity of the winch on the last spool but there is too much line on the drum you should really be thinking about using a snatch block to halve the load on the winch. In which case you will need all the extra line you can get. Sure it takes longer to set up and to do the recovery but if you aren't competing in winch challenges who cares?

 

[BajaXplorer]

Now the important thing is determining how much line will fit on your winch.

For example, I have the Warn XD9000. It came with 100' of 5/16" steel line. When spooled all the way in, the steel cable pretty much fills it up.

So, can I only go with 80-90' of the 3/8" synthetic, or does the synthetic take up less space?

Is it even possible to get 125' of the 3/8" synthetic on there?

Does anyone have a link to a chart of popular winches and the amount of synthetic that will fit?

I have an XD9000, and was able to get 115' of synthetic line (5/16) on it.
BX

 

[mrchips]

I have 80'ft synthetic line on a PRO SERIES T MAX 9000, having a shorter amount of line gets you less layers on the drum, so you can get a full strength pull without having to run a snatch block if you need max power from your winch.
I also carry a extension if i need longer reach.

 

[Antichrist]

My thinking was to find a higher rated line than what was supplied in the winch. Then look at how the next smaller OD cable's rating compared that of the original cable.

The idea being that I could back off on the cable diameter and have the same length of equal strength but smaller OD cable on the drum, resulting in a reduced loss of pulling power on the top wrap. This is possible in some of the synthetics, but you're skating on the edge of the strength ratings.

The hazards with that reasoning are two.
1. The smaller the cable, especially with synthetic, the less wear you can get before needing to replace it.
2. The smaller the cable, the sooner you get more layers and reduce pulling capacity.
Madizell is pretty much spot on. The two above concerns may or may not be an issue in your particular type of off-roading.

 

[soonenough]

2. The smaller the cable, the sooner you get more layers and reduce pulling capacity.

I could be mistaken, but wouldn't the overall "height" of cable on the drum determine the available pulling power, not the number of layers of cable creating that height? That's assuming you're ignoring the effects of line stretch of the cable on the drum and friction of the individual layers rubbing as they're being tightened against each other.

For argument's sake, say you were comparing 1/8" and 1/4" cable (I realize those aren't real cable diameters, but you get the idea). If the line coming off the spool is 2" above the surface of the drum, it doesn't matter whether it's 16 layers of 1/8" cable or 8 layers of 1/4" cable - the basic principle of Torque = Force x Distance still stands. Or am I having a moment of stupidity?

 

[ntsqd]

Given that my Warn M8 has done a danged fine job of holding down a corner of the garage floor for the last couple of years I don't see the wear life being too big of an issue. Though I do agree, this would not be the route to go with a winch used in any sort of competition.

It is not the number of wraps that is the source of the reduction in pulling power. That is the easiest way to describe it, but the reduction comes from the larger 'spool' diameter due to the previous wrap that the current wrap is spooling on top of. A smaller OD line would increase the "drum" diameter less per wrap, allowing more power per wrap and more total length on the spool, but the points made on strength and lifespan are very valid.

 

[soonenough]

It is not the number of wraps that is the source of the reduction in pulling power. That is the easiest way to describe it, but the reduction comes from the larger 'spool' diameter due to the previous wrap that the current wrap is spooling on top of. A smaller OD line would increase the "drum" diameter less per wrap, allowing more power per wrap and more total length on the spool, but the points made on strength and lifespan are very valid.

Ohhh, now I see the point that was being made. If you're going to put a 100' cable on a winch, the smaller you make the diameter of the cable, the less you're reducing your pulling power when you're making a pull with most of the line still on the drum, as the 'drum diameter' would be less with smaller diameter cable.

Interesting point about the smaller cable allowing more pulling power per wrap...I've never thought of it that way.

 

[ntsqd]

Ohhh, now I see the point that was being made. If you're going to put a 100' cable on a winch, the smaller you make the diameter of the cable, the less you're reducing your pulling power when you're making a pull with most of the line still on the drum, as the 'drum diameter' would be less with smaller diameter cable.

Interesting point about the smaller cable allowing more pulling power per wrap...I've never thought of it that way.

But, as has been pointed out, it is not without it's downsides. It would work for my use (assuming I ever had a use) if a suitable synthetic line could be found, but it won't work for everyone.
Anyway, I posted the idea as Food For Thought. Perhaps someone can make use of it.

 

[Antichrist]

Or am I having a moment of stupidity?

No, I was. I shouldn't post after a few glasses of wine. :smilies27

 

[michaelgroves]

I'd go with less line on the winch, and two decent extension ropes (a long and a short, perhaps). It means a bit more rigging if you really need to winch a long way, but if you're that kind of stuck, the few extra minutes of rigging don't matter. But having a length of rope that fits comfortably on the drum, means that by far the majority of pulls will be simpler.

Extension ropes are much longer than the extra line you could have on your winch, and although they need to have separate storage, they are also very versatile - can be used on other people's winches, on the "far" side of a snatch block, as a secondary line for belaying, etc.

 

[aslostasyou]

I just finished widening the drum of my 8274 by 7"

I should be able to cram 300' of synthetic 3/8" when I'm done. Not too concerned about pulling power as I'll be adding a Gigglepin dual 24v motor setup to the already legendary warn workhorse.

This isn't really common here in the states but overseas in competitions guys have insane wide drums, dual motors and air operated solenoids. Crazy fast stuff for competition and it eliminates the hassle of using extensions since your line has to be secured in most cases to claim points and not DNF.

 

[aslostasyou]

Site won't let me post the URL link... replace the *** with "a s s" no spaces...

 

[nat88toy]

i carry 85' of synthetic line on my 12k and have a 40' ext line and 50' of strap if that is not enough i bury the spare tire and anchor to that