How to inflate a tyre QUICKLY.

[michaelgroves]

There have been discussions of this topic fairly recently on Benzworld and Pirate. The method I use for 395/85R20s:
Place a 20" bicycle tube between outer bead and rim flange, inflate till contact made between bead and flange. Tire should not be touching ground - best on hub in the air, or on a cylindrical stand. Make sure bike tube is lubricated with straight detergent. Then inflate tire to 3-4 psi and rapidly pull bike tube out, preferably while passing air into tire rapidly. Bead should seat.
I've done it successfully twice.
This avoids the neccesity for rapid, poorly controlled redox reactions. The pressure wave from a blast incidentally might not be good for a CTIS system.

Charlie

This sounds like a much better solution. However, it does mean you need a bicycle tube the same diameter as the wheel rim.

I don't know much about CTIS, but I shouldn't imagine the pressure wave from an ether/propane/gasoline burn would be much of a problem - no more than going over a sharp bump when running low pressure tyres, surely? Put it this way - what do you imagine the maximum pressure reaches when the stuff ignites?

 

[charlieaarons]

Spark ignition engines attain 600 psi or more with the combustion phase. The pressure front in an explosion can be many orders of magnitude higher. Of course the shock wave arriving at delicate CTIS actuators (valves etc.) would be damped by the narrow tubing involved.


charlie

 

[michaelgroves]

Spark ignition engines attain 600 psi or more with the combustion phase. The pressure front in an explosion can be many orders of magnitude higher. Of course the shock wave arriving at delicate CTIS actuators (valves etc.) would be damped by the narrow tubing involved.


charlie

True, but the pressure in an internal combustion engine is multiplied by the initial compression - somewhere around ten-fold! That would equate to a pressure of around only 60PSI for an otherwise equivalent uncompressed burn.

Let me hasten to add that I don't know anything about CTIS, so I'm surmising, and happy to be corrected if you're not just surmising, or if I have got it wrong.

Regards,

M...

 

[12husky]

That's true, but it's not like you'd have to use it that often - it's just when you need to reseat the bead in an emergency. Perhaps 10 to 20 seconds exposure per occasion!

In my experience with it (some, but limited), when I have changed tires a month later there is still ether in the tire. I think this is becasue the explosion runs out of oxygen before all of the ether is consumed?

Again, this method works in an emergency, but like any trail-fix, it should be correctly properly once back safely in your garage.

~Matt

 

[michaelgroves]

In my experience with it (some, but limited), when I have changed tires a month later there is still ether in the tire. I think this is becasue the explosion runs out of oxygen before all of the ether is consumed?

Again, this method works in an emergency, but like any trail-fix, it should be correctly properly once back safely in your garage.

~Matt

Ah, I've never actually used ether - I'd guess you must be spraying quite a bit? I assume you don't mean liquid ether still in the tyre, though? I've used propane, which works fine, and I can't smell any trace of it when I air down again.

When you say it should be done properly once safely back in the garage... you mean take the bead off the rim and reseat it??? Or just make sure there's no smell of ether?

 

[emmodg]

I show my students the "ether trick" every program. It works VERY well and IS safe when done correctly. You don't need a bunch and you don't have to re-seat it back at camp/home/base. There is some ether fume left in the tire and we did have one instructor overwhelmed with the fumes when he punctured the tread to perform a plug demonstration. The "secret" is getting a good ignition and this usually, not every time, involves stomping/kicking on the sidewall of the tire when the flames start to subside. This introduces a "shot" of oxygen and you get a more effective explosion.

 

[Joe]

Hi,

have tried as well the version with brake cleaner spray, worked well but I have to admit that I had to use three attempts - OK, my tire is a little big bigger! :wings:
You either look heer for the full story including the bicylce hose trick plus two more or go directly to the link (it's not youtoube or so but from my own website, so maybe you have to wait a little bit).

 

[charlieaarons]

True, but the pressure in an internal combustion engine is multiplied by the initial compression - somewhere around ten-fold! That would equate to a pressure of around only 60PSI for an otherwise equivalent uncompressed burn.

Let me hasten to add that I don't know anything about CTIS, so I'm surmising, and happy to be corrected if you're not just surmising, or if I have got it wrong.

Regards,

M...

Not to hijack the thread, but we're talking 2 different things. I'm saying explosive pressure (power stroke) P ~ 600 psi or more. You are talking about compression pressure prior to initiation of combustion. In a 10:1 engine, pressure does NOT rise only 10-fold. It follows the law of adiabatic compression, PV**gamma = constant, gamma = 1.4 for air. So compression pressure is 10 to the 1.4 power atm ~25 ~ 360psi. That's because it gets hot as well.
I think my 600 psi for combustion pressure (in a spark-ignition engine, only as an example, and only mean explosive pressure, not peak pressure by a longshot) may be very low, at the flame front it's immense and very difficult to calculate because it's a nonequilibrium system.
In general CTIS systems don't like abuse - water, salt, foreign bodies, pressure spikes, hydrocarbons.

Charlie

 

[Kilroy]

Had a friend re-seat 2 tires for me using this technique. On the second tire he was a little slow lighting starting fluid with an extended lighter (like for starting grill) and ended up leaving end of lighter in bead. Didn't leak though:victory:

Other two tires had a slow leak from dirt in bead though.

Have Staun bead locks now:sombrero:

 

[jesusgatos]

Be careful if you try this. I remember seeing a report on pirate about someone blowing the lip off a cast aluminum wheel using (too much) ether to re-inflate a flat tire.

 

[michaelgroves]

Not to hijack the thread, but we're talking 2 different things. I'm saying explosive pressure (power stroke) P ~ 600 psi or more. You are talking about compression pressure prior to initiation of combustion. In a 10:1 engine, pressure does NOT rise only 10-fold. It follows the law of adiabatic compression, PV**gamma = constant, gamma = 1.4 for air. So compression pressure is 10 to the 1.4 power atm ~25 ~ 360psi. That's because it gets hot as well.
I think my 600 psi for combustion pressure (in a spark-ignition engine, only as an example, and only mean explosive pressure, not peak pressure by a longshot) may be very low, at the flame front it's immense and very difficult to calculate because it's a nonequilibrium system.
In general CTIS systems don't like abuse - water, salt, foreign bodies, pressure spikes, hydrocarbons.

Charlie

I just meant that the explosion in a spark ignition engine takes place when the air is under very high pressure already, so it's not comparable to the pressure of the free(ish) air burning in the tyre. My sense is that it doesn't take a huge amount of pressure to reseat a bead, nor does the propane explosion seem like it's generating a lot of pressure. I could be wrong. And if CTIS is sensitive to hydrocarbons too, then of course that's a whole 'nother thing.

 

[12husky]

Ah, I've never actually used ether - I'd guess you must be spraying quite a bit? I assume you don't mean liquid ether still in the tyre, though? I've used propane, which works fine, and I can't smell any trace of it when I air down again.

When you say it should be done properly once safely back in the garage... you mean take the bead off the rim and reseat it??? Or just make sure there's no smell of ether?

When I got home, I took it to my local tire shop, unseated the tire, and washed the inside out. Then using their nice set-up I reset the bead all for about $10.

A friend of mine works at the tire shop so I am just going by what he has said about the ether making the inside of the tire 'gummy.' I figure the $10 every now and then is worth my piece of mind since the 4runner is my family hauler.

~Matt

 

[michaelgroves]

When I got home, I took it to my local tire shop, unseated the tire, and washed the inside out. Then using their nice set-up I reset the bead all for about $10.

A friend of mine works at the tire shop so I am just going by what he has said about the ether making the inside of the tire 'gummy.' I figure the $10 every now and then is worth my piece of mind since the 4runner is my family hauler.

~Matt

Ah, ok. Personally, using propane, I wouldn't bother - just air down and back up again if there's a hint of propane (there never has been). However, I don't know what other stuff there is in the "ether" sprays, such as lubricants that might not burn off, and which might attack the rubber.