improving braking power on dodges

[bftank]

saw some of you guy in larry's thread talking about the poor braking of dodges so i thought i would start this thread vs. pming everyone.


this is a thread about swapping in a gm one ton brake cylinder onto a 2nd gen ram 2500. supposed to greatly improve stopping power.
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2n...e-system/55-drum-brake-wheel-cylinder-upgrade

a little more detailed article on the wheel cylinder swap
http://www.dieselbombers.com/94-98-...2380-2nd-gen-rear-wheel-cylinder-upgrade.html

dana 70 bible
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522333&highlight=dana+70+bible

dana 70 disc brake swap
http://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-r...8-disc-conversion-your-dana-70-rear-axle.html

video of disc brake swap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqr_DnGkFEs

dana 80 bible
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=807837&highlight=dana+80+bible

the reason i am including this is because a lot of pullers swap a dana 80 in for strength behind the cummins, and because the dana 80 came with disc brakes, i believe, from 2001.5-2002 before dodge went to the AAM axle in the 2003. easy swap. same gears as dana 70 available.

hope this is handy for some of you guys

 

[CodyY]

I have a set of D60/D80 from a 96 4*4 dually. The 80 has disks.

Just FYI

 

[ExpoMike]

Thanks for the additional info. Seen similar links. Wish there was a decently priced rear disc conversion that used a GOOD E-brake system. Most of them are none or use Eldorado calipers which are total crap.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Thanks for the additional info. Seen similar links. Wish there was a decently priced rear disc conversion that used a GOOD E-brake system. Most of them are none or use Eldorado calipers which are total crap.

Eldo calipers are not needed if you run a drive shaft e-brake setup w/big caliper.

 

[ExpoMike]

Eldo calipers are not needed if you run a drive shaft e-brake setup w/big caliper.

Downside is, if you break a driveshaft, you're kind of SOL at that point and many times when you break a driveshaft (or u-joints), that is when you need your e-brake the most (to get out and check the damage).

 

[Nicaragüense]

You can also install third gen rotors and pads on the front of a second gen by adding the third gen caliper bracket. You can get third gen calipers or use the existing ones. The only downside is that you need 17s to clear the newer rotor/caliper setup so it can become a costly mod if you are upgrading just for it. It only works on the trucks that have the rotors that slip over the studs. Some came with the other ones that require removing the hub to replace, it wont work with these.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

 

[Nicaragüense]

Found a link.
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...56k-t245515.html?&highlight=big+brake+upgrade


Sent from my DROID RAZR

 

[bftank]

the guys at offroad design are using a hydraulic rated valve on the brakeline as their park brake. seems cheap simple and effective, i think adding a driveline brake on top of that would give the assurance needed that it wasn't going any where.

 

[ExpoMike]

Actually, the "Park-Loc" as I have seen them advertised as, are typically illegal as a primary e-brake. I believe Fed requirements require a mechanical e-brake system.

That said, I have been in a vehicle that has lost it's brake fluid and without the mechanical e-brake, things would have been very interesting.

 

[Regcabguy]

Thanks for the additional info. Seen similar links. Wish there was a decently priced rear disc conversion that used a GOOD E-brake system. Most of them are none or use Eldorado calipers which are total crap.

I did the GM cylinders,Dodge TSB bypass of the brake proportioning valve for constantly loaded trucks(campers),EGR braided ss brake lines,Hawk pads and finally the EGR rear conversion. This resulted in longer pedal travel,lousy e-brake and marginally better braking. Pacbrake to the rescue because I had a DTT auto and Smart Controller. Thousand's of $$$ later I finally had a truck with decent brakes.

 

[ExpoMike]

Regcabguy - How much did you have into the Pacbrake and related parts to make it all work?

 

[Metcalf]

It depends on what your trying to do I guess....

The 2nd gen and 3rd gen axles are a bit wide (70+"). Fine for a 2nd or 3rd gen dodge, but about 5" wider than a 1st gen dodge ( or 1st gen cummins truck or whatever ) or early GM trucks.

Dodge didn't have factory rear disc brakes till 2001.5 ( on the 3/4+ ton truck ) and can be found in D60, D70, and D80 versions.

GM had a AAM/14-bolt axle in approx 2003 that used regular 3-bearing 14-bolt gears and carriers. It is approx 67" wide and has factory disc brakes with an internal drum parking brake.

Upgrades for old style kingpin D60 front axles are limited. I have been meaning to tackle a larger disc conversion on my truck but my Willys project has been taking up a lot of my time

Hydroboost is an option to provide more force ( generally ) but you are basically just working the stock brakes harder, not making them more efficient.

The larger rear drum thing is an option, but boy are those part HEAVY.

You can retrofit larger brake cylinders in early dodge trucks. Fairly common I think.

I have not had the best luck with eldorado style calipers over the years. The e-brake never tends to work right IMOO.

A transfer case mounted parking brake is an interesting option for earlier trucks with something like a np205 transfer case. This eliminates the need for a parking brake at the wheel.

Lots of options. I know I need to do something on my dodge, its TERRIBLE!

 

[bftank]

i think that is a very valid point expomike, it would be scary to loose hydro and brakes with no backup. maybe the best bet if a person wanted discs in the rear is to swap in the dana 80 with the discs and the parking brake, or the aam axle if you were comfortable with 3.73's or 4.10's.


regcabguy - that is curious that your truck ended up with more pedal travel and marginal braking improvement after the swap. in my burb i swapped discs on my 14 bolt, changed to a hydroboost system, with no proportioning valve and ended up need to put a pillow on the dash to keep my head from knocking into the window once the air was finally bled out of the system. different beasts i know, but still curious.

metcalf - have you tried the chevy one ton brake cylinders in your dodge yet? curious as to wether any one has tried this and how well it works. seems to get good review on the web.


the 70" rear doesn't seem too goofy looking considering most fronts are usually around 69.5" wide.

 

[Metcalf]

metcalf - have you tried the chevy one ton brake cylinders in your dodge yet? curious as to wether any one has tried this and how well it works. seems to get good review on the web.

the 70" rear doesn't seem too goofy looking considering most fronts are usually around 69.5" wide.

Nope, not going to spend any money on the drums. At this point I would probably have to redo them anyways. I will take that money into a later disc brake 14-bolt rear axle.

70"+. I think the 94-02 axles are 71-72" wide if I remember right.

My dodge D60 front is only 67.5" wide. I think a 14-bolt is the perfect match at 67" wide. The factory D70 rear I have is only about 65" wide. That difference front to rear is annoying.

 

[teleturns]

Nope, not going to spend any money on the drums. At this point I would probably have to redo them anyways. I will take that money into a later disc brake 14-bolt rear axle.

70"+. I think the 94-02 axles are 71-72" wide if I remember right.

My dodge D60 front is only 67.5" wide. I think a 14-bolt is the perfect match at 67" wide. The factory D70 rear I have is only about 65" wide. That difference front to rear is annoying.

Metcalf

I know we talked about this a while back. Is the later disc brake 14-bolt rear axle you are referring to the one with the 10.5" ring gear? I think these were non diesel applications. I know the GM diesels had the AAM 11.5 ring gear and isn't technically a 14 bolt. I really want to switch out my Dana 70 because the brakes suck and the seals keep going out. A factory disc braked 14 bolt sounds like a great option for my 1st gen. The accessories for 14 bolts are endless and traction control devices are dirt cheap.

What years of GM trucks did the disc brake 14 bolt come on?

I also just bought a master cylinder and booster for a 2nd gen cummins to swap into my truck. We will see if it helps my vacuum leak problem....