Independent vs Solid
- Thread starter corsaoceano
- Start date
SilverJK12
New member
Then why? lol.
4D55 Performance
Explorer
It is really hard to compare IFS to a solid axle setup because there are several different types of solid axle setup and several types of IFS.Instead of using generalizations it is better to compare specific setups. Mitsubishi uses a very stong IFS on there Gen II/II.5 Monteros. The IFS allows the Montero to handle very well at high speed in offroad conditions. For the Gen III Montero, Mitsubishi looked to improve upon its offroad racing legacy by going with a fully independent suspension. Mitsubishi made the Montero as strong and reliable as possible because they used stock vehicles to race in all the rally's like the Paris to Dakar. While the Montero is not designed for rock crawling, it was designed to go fast in the dirt and be the most reliable rally vehicle ever made.
I have had several FJ80's over the years and they are great vehicles. They use solid axle front and rear which are coil sprung and located with a panhard bar. The use of a panhard bar and coils is one of the two most advanced solid axle setups. The other is a coil over setup. While the FJ80 is a great offroad vehicle, it has a tendency to have excess body roll in corners at high speeds even equipped with a premium suspension like an OME. The FJ80 has great flex and Toyota reliability, but high speed is not in its DNA. THe FJ excels at the slower paced off road travel.
The biggest advantages to IFS is it ability to take turns and corners at high speeds and it's ability to soak up the bumps at high speed. When you crank the torsion bars you lose both of these advantages because the wheels lose their ability to travel downwards. If you want to lift an IFS vehicle just an inch or two I would recommend getting a small body lift so you can maintain your downward travel in your independent suspension. If you do a torsion bar lift the vehicle will ride very rough both on and offroad.
I have had several FJ80's over the years and they are great vehicles. They use solid axle front and rear which are coil sprung and located with a panhard bar. The use of a panhard bar and coils is one of the two most advanced solid axle setups. The other is a coil over setup. While the FJ80 is a great offroad vehicle, it has a tendency to have excess body roll in corners at high speeds even equipped with a premium suspension like an OME. The FJ80 has great flex and Toyota reliability, but high speed is not in its DNA. THe FJ excels at the slower paced off road travel.
The biggest advantages to IFS is it ability to take turns and corners at high speeds and it's ability to soak up the bumps at high speed. When you crank the torsion bars you lose both of these advantages because the wheels lose their ability to travel downwards. If you want to lift an IFS vehicle just an inch or two I would recommend getting a small body lift so you can maintain your downward travel in your independent suspension. If you do a torsion bar lift the vehicle will ride very rough both on and offroad.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
SilverJK12
New member
Then his reason was correct saying solid axle for rock crawling lol
Quote "a lot of the Toyota guys are going for rock crawling and need the extreme flex that you can only get with solid axles."
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
No he said Toyota guys swap out ifs because Toyota suspension is weak.
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Cee-Jay
Sasquatch
Reminds me of older full size domestic SUVs...the guys powering slowly over very rough terrain might go with the ol' solid axle Blazers and Ramchargers while the higher speed dessert runners tend to prefer the TTB Broncos. Depends on what you're planning to do with it.
That being said, suppose Toyota had been offering Landcruisers, 4Runners and the new FJs in North America with a solid front axle version... would those vehicels not be considered the best versions for wheelin' AND for rough expo/overland use? Everything else equal, I'm guessin' that most guys still prefer solid front axles... it's just that everything else isn't equal and factors like reliability outweight the axle issue.
I certainly wouldn't avoid an excellent vehicle like the Gen 2 Montero just because it has IFS... but if there was a special factory version of the Montero with solid axles front and back I'll bet that's what most of us would be talking about. :drool:
That being said, suppose Toyota had been offering Landcruisers, 4Runners and the new FJs in North America with a solid front axle version... would those vehicels not be considered the best versions for wheelin' AND for rough expo/overland use? Everything else equal, I'm guessin' that most guys still prefer solid front axles... it's just that everything else isn't equal and factors like reliability outweight the axle issue.
I certainly wouldn't avoid an excellent vehicle like the Gen 2 Montero just because it has IFS... but if there was a special factory version of the Montero with solid axles front and back I'll bet that's what most of us would be talking about. :drool:
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geocrasher
Observer
Yes I said the IFS is weak. Allow me to be more specific: When running Big Tires, the toy IFS doesn't hold up as well. The 7.5" ring gear just too small for heavy usage under bigger loads. I'm not saying its a completely flawed design. Its not.
My point here is that compared to the Montero IFS, the Toyota IFS is weak(er).
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Nah, I'd go with the IFS version with similar thinking of your first paragraph. For what I do, IFS is the better choice as the positive handling characteristics are an imperious need for my destinations. For me, destinations like Big Bend and the forest roads in Arkansas, Colorado, and New Mexico solicit the use of a well functioning IFS rig. For what Off-Roader, sneaky ninja, IncorporatedX and the other guys who primarily rock crawl in their montys, a solid axle version may be more their cup of tea. Is a solid axle necessary for crawling? Not necessarily. A Toyota Magazine had a series about two first generation 4runners. An 85 with a solid front axle and an 86 with IFS. They set both up as equally as possible, with same tires, similar lift heights. Both already had the same motors and features. There were clear pros and cons for each..... too bad I don't recall which version won, but they performed very similar, with a definite comfort edge leaning to the IFS truck.
And as others mentioned, for a trip such as the one described, its better to go with the more reliable vehicle that you'll trust to get you there and home. You may need to do as I just did (on ANY vehicle, no make or model is immune to issues!) and completely go through the vehicle before the trip. Am I planning a long distance trip like Alaska to Argentina? no. But I'll be taking my wife, 6 year old daughter, and (currently) 3 month old daughter on rather remote trips; I've got to rely on my vehicle getting the family out and back safely.
Cee-Jay
Sasquatch
Totally agree with you.
off-roader
Expedition Leader
So to summarize for the OP...
Is the Mitsu IFS sufficient for your goals? Yes. It's more than fine for the kind of wheeling you have in mind unless you plan on running 40" tires, etc.
From my experience the Mitsu IFS does appear to be built better & is more capable at handling larger tires on harder trails than many other stock 4x4 IFS systems.
Case in point... Carlos (CAP510), Lloyd (Lloyd Swartz), Adam (Sneaky Ninja), myself and I'm sure many others have run 35" & some even 37" tires on the stock Gen I & II IFS axles/differentials on rock crawling trails w/out IFS issues.
Are these needed for your current travel goal? No. My recommendation is to service your diffs, xcase, transmission then go with a 31-33" tire and not worry about it.:ylsmoke:
Is the Mitsu IFS sufficient for your goals? Yes. It's more than fine for the kind of wheeling you have in mind unless you plan on running 40" tires, etc.
From my experience the Mitsu IFS does appear to be built better & is more capable at handling larger tires on harder trails than many other stock 4x4 IFS systems.
Case in point... Carlos (CAP510), Lloyd (Lloyd Swartz), Adam (Sneaky Ninja), myself and I'm sure many others have run 35" & some even 37" tires on the stock Gen I & II IFS axles/differentials on rock crawling trails w/out IFS issues.
Are these needed for your current travel goal? No. My recommendation is to service your diffs, xcase, transmission then go with a 31-33" tire and not worry about it.:ylsmoke:
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
You said its weak that's why they swap them out. It's not the reason they swap them out
. And no it's not weak. Toyota makes very high quality parts. Why do you think and 8" toy is stronger than an 8.5" Dana 44. I would even put an 8" rear up against a stock early 9" ford. I'm not trying to start a fight just my opinion Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
geocrasher
Observer
You said its weak that's why they swap them out. It's not the reason they swap them out
The actual linkage itself isn't weak, but that little 7.5" ring in the front isn't all that strong for what most guys build their toys for- rock crawling- and that's why they get swapped out. I agree, the Toy V6 8" is among the strongest diffs ever made, guys run 37" tires on them and bigger. But the fronts use 7.5" diffs, unless they've changed that in newer generations. The funny thing is, I think we're both saying the same thing ;-)
Also, there's no upgrade path on the IFS front end differential- if there were, there might be more Toy IFS rigs out there running big tires. Its also quite practical to SAS a Toy, cost wise. So many factors to it, I suppose I shouldn't have named strength as the number one- its not.
geocrasher
Observer
Episode 4 of XOverland includes lots of Toy IFS doing some serious wheeling. http://xoverland.com/ I take back my comments- IFS of most any type is probably fine for anything except hardcore rock crawling or other things known for breakage, like mudding. For what most of us do, IFS is fine.
They're also modestly lifted with only minimally larger tires. That combination is fine. Large lifts, large tires and crawling is not good for toyota IFS.