Is it feasible to do a budget-friendly FL60 build?

[DavidAlex]

I'm researching my options for a platform on which to build a camper, and I happened across a few affordable medium duty Freightliner flatbeds. At first, my instinct had been to stick with an SRW F-350 gasser and build as light as possible, but that's a pretty limiting design choice. I looked into DRW 1-ton trucks, but frankly I don't like the engine options available. I'm trying to keep the budget for the truck and camper down around $25k, and used 1-ton diesels in the 15k price range just don't look reliable to me.

I can find used FL60s, with the 5.9L Cummins for around $10k, and even assuming it needs an in-frame overhaul ($3k?) and new tires ($3.5k?), I'd still be at under $17k for a more capable, more reliable truck than a used 1-ton flatbed. Does this seem right? Or are there other major costs that older Freightliners have that a newer (but still high mileage) DRW F-350 or F-450 don't have?

Am I just being delusional to think that an FL60 could be bought and operated on a pretty limited budget?

 

[Darwin]

Is that 10K and 4wd ?

 

[DavidAlex]

RWD, I haven't seen any 4wd FL60s

 

[rossvtaylor]

Hi David, we bought a 1999 FL60 ambulance last summer. Not a flatbed, but it may give you some idea of what can be done in that budget. We paid $18,500 for ours, from a refurbishing ambo dealer, so it had new batteries and new tires and everything worked. I drove it straight from Philly to AZ, without a concern, and it's been essentially trouble-free. And the ambo box makes a great camper shell. It had 86K miles on it and I don't forsee the need for an overhaul any time soon. We did change out the tires and wheels, but that was for clearance only. Check out Global Emergency Vehicles for their stock of Medium Duty Ambos. If you are open to doing more work, or taking more risk, they also regularly have clearance vehicles which haven't been prepped. You can also go through auctions or Ambulance Trader, but my experience with Global Emergency Vehicles seems to mirror that of others here on the forum... very positive.

Overall, though, we love our FL60 and even without 4WD it's perfect for our forest service roads and needs.

 

[Ozarker]

Yep, great truck for overlanding travels, none that you mentioned are rock climbers.

Ambos can be nice, but I'd stick with a flatbed and look at the options available for a camper, really depends on your requirements.

A pop=up can fit on a bed with room left over to haul toys, a bike or whatever. Lots of storage underneath for tanks and gear, won't be taking up living space.

Tell us what you expect out of your vehicle for better detailed opinions

 

[DavidAlex]

Ross -- I've looked at ambulances, but the complexity is a real turnoff. It seems like a lot of energy would go into just removing all the stuff I wouldn't need. I think I'd rather start from a shell and add only what I need. But it's good to know that a good example of an FL60 can go for well under 20k.

Ozarker -- Right, I'm more interested in overlanding travel than 4-wheelin'. What I'm looking for in a vehicle is something capable of eating up highway mileage without being too fatiguing to drive (noise and vibration) or too expensive to operate (6 mpg, or constant diesel repair bills) while still able to get down forest service roads and handle slick mud and snow. What I'm looking for in a camper is a standing height space with good insulation for cold weather camping (eg, ski resort parking lots), with sleeping space for three (realistically, two people at a time, but with flexibility for those two people to not share a bed). I'd prefer not to do a cabover bed, mostly because of the height issues that would present on a big truck. I want simple galley, and maybe a shower in case I decide to do long trips or stints of fulltiming. My outdoor time is spent trailrunning, hiking and skiing.

The easiest solution to this is probably a one-ton pickup and a slide in camper, but I think I can make something better for the same money if I do it myself. IdaSHO's build techniques look really doable and the finished camper looks like it would perform for the environments and tasks I would want from it. I've also considered converting a box truck, but the >14' boxes all seem to have a lot of rear overhang and I'm concerned they wouldn't be good even on relatively benign FS roads. Still, they are super cheap and simple.

I'm still very early in the planning stages, so I'm considering all my options.

 

[NorthwestNorthernOntario]

FL60

I think if you take your time, and are patient, you can find a nice one. I got a Crew Cab FL60 (that is what the Mrs. wanted) with a Cat 3126/Allison 6 speed. It has a 17' flatbed with a gooseneck set up. I got it for less than 20 grand, and it is very clean w only 35K miles on it. It has two 75 gallon tanks, and air and cruise, so it isn't luxury, but the two air ride seats should make for a nice ride. I drive one at work quite a bit (1996 Biz Class, 8.3 Cummins with 6 speed manual-24' flatbed), but that truck is super loud. I am probably going to do lizard skin on mine for sound and temperature. I would have preferred the Cummins motor, but the 3126 is very good if you don't idle it for long periods-that is hard on them. Some have the 19.5 tires, but I like having the 22.5 rubber. We are mostly on road, so probably will not go with super singles for a while. I have 22.5 chains, and I believe it is easy to get lockers for these rear ends as well, and a winch never hurts...

I agree that it is a pain for tags and insurance. This truck weighs only 3,800# more than my 2500 Dodge, but the insurance companies act like it is hauling 80.000#...:Wow1: Darn thing weighs about 15,000 less than most Class A diesel pusher coaches, and Joe Schmoo goes down the road in those,towing an 8,000# Suburban, and the DOT, etc. are all oblivious because they fall under RV. Our 36' Foretravel has essentially the same driveline, w the 3116 Cat. It is tough to pull a gooseneck with it, so it is for sale. It weighs about 22k and gets a solid 11 mpg. USAA would not cover it either, but they have some type of deal w Progressive (which has my Boat and the Foretravel) and I got a commercial "farm" policy since I will use it to tow a gooseneck horse trailer, haul hay, etc. Runs about $500 per 6 months; I am a CDL holder since 1984 with a clean record, so that helps too. Mrs. NWNO wanted a "Sports Chassis", but I could not justify $70k for a truck with 160,000 miles on it to get leather seats, a dvd player and a hauler bed that I could not put a camper on... There was an M2 in town (Vancouver, WA.) this winter with an ext. cab. It was for sale for only $10k, with low miles, but it had the Mercedes motor and was having "communication issues" between the motor and transmission. It had a 28 foot box on it and a repair estimate of about 8 grand, but from what I have read, some of the MB motors have electric gremlins that can make you very sad. I guess I should have bought it for the value of the parts!
When I get my 'box' built, I will re tag it as an RV ASAP for the reasons stated. If you can't beat em, join em!
I am lurking on several build threads, looking at the best way to proceed (there are some whip smart people on here). In speaking to some of the builders, they get well north of $1,200 per square foot to build a true Expedition Camper. With an FL60, you don't need to be so concerned about weight, so wood cabinets will work instead of high $$ aluminum, and you can carry a generator, etc. I don't want a sticks and staples camper, so I am following what Total Composites and some of the others are doing. I like the cassette toilets, Wallas stoves, etc. for simplicity. You can also have Bolt make you a custom sleeper unit for your FL for about $45k, that would include everything you need, in about a 102" unit. I found a used unit like that for $1,000 that I could gut and redo, so there are tons of options, depending on your desires and $$$. My goal is to be all set up for under $80K, with about a 10 to 12 foot Expedition style camper, so I think it is possible.

 

[DavidAlex]

This is all great info. It honestly didn't occur to me what a pain registration and insurance would be for a vehicle that is barely bigger than some "light truck" passenger vehicles and lighter than most Class A coaches. I guess RVIA has some good lobbyists to keep those rules in place. I'm beginning to see why most people stick with truck campers and traditional RVs.

 

[keons500]

I had the bus registered as a commercial vehicle for private use during my build. Insurance is really sketchy because of the high liability. They assume either the high weight will get someone or you will fill it with people and have an accident. Registration through the state was fine and goes by weight class. I technically needed a CDL and air brake endorsement, but I only drove it once to a truck shop for a quick checkup. Annual registration costs practically nothing. I question insurance under an accident.

As soon as the vehicle is re-titled as a motor home, the registration amount goes by price cap. The Secretary of State looked up the MSRP for my bus ($60,000) and added my modifications (they estimated $25,000). This put me in fee cap #0080 ($80,000). My annual registration is right at $500. I have more confidence in my insurance actually covering damage in case of an accident, especially since my registration clearly states a high dollar value. I have the now-a-motor-home bus insured through State Farm believe it or not. Annual premium with every liability limit maxed is $850.

You're right about a lot of work gutting an Ambo/Bus/Other. I'm glad I went with a bus because I'm occasionally using my vehicle as a tour bus for work, but my god was it a lot of work to gut. I look at Ambos now and think about how sweet the a cab is, but I love the open layout of a bus. My next project would be to find a 4x4 medium duty truck as you're discussing (flat bed or with box). Occasionally an old 4x4 F600 with a box or similar pops up on CL, and I get really excited.

You can have a lot of fun building with $25k but I wouldn't expect a complete expedition vehicle. You could potentially buy a vehicle with a box, choose not to be concerned with 4x4, gut a totalled RV for some parts, and realize many things will have to be finished at a later date. Pretty much each modification I decided to do was over a grand in parts (charging system, inverter, battery pack, paint, windows, interior, etc etc etc). I did not even get to drive train, tires, rear suspension, etc.