JK/JL Jeep Camper Concept

[AggieOE]

We are back from Overland Expo PNW, and it was a really nice trip. It was great to meet up with several of you, and the event seemed a lot more chill/calmer than the Flagstaff Expo. Yvonne and I put 2,125 miles on our jeep (camper #1) and we caravanned up to the event with Dan (camper #2), so in total, the two campers totaled something like 4,000 miles on the trip without any significant problems. It was a good first big test.

Now that we are back home, it's time to start thinking about laying out the interior of Yvonne and my habit. It should be a fun summer/fall project. It was nice to sleep in the camper all last week with nearly nothing in the habit. It helped us get a feel for the volume and make some decisions about the layout and systems that we want. I think we will try to keep it simple and light weight.

Despite the fact that the camper is a box and not exactly aerodynamic, we were actually fairly pleased with our mileage. We averaged 18.2 mpg over the entire trip and we got more like 20.4 mpg on tanks were we predominantly drove 55 mph. So, the vehicle obviously likes driving slower (no surprise there). Even at +65 mph with a headwind, 18.2 mpg as an average seemed acceptable for a travel vehicle.

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A completely subjective question, I'm sure, but how come you decided to use a Rhino rack cut apart and not make your own? I see fabrication is not your weak point. lol Also, I like the more flush taillights but am surprised you didn't go with TJ lights like everyone and their dog does for Jeep trailers. Any reason? I thought it was an unspoken rule haha

 

[LostInTheWorld]

A completely subjective question, I'm sure, but how come you decided to use a Rhino rack cut apart and not make your own? I see fabrication is not your weak point. lol Also, I like the more flush taillights but am surprised you didn't go with TJ lights like everyone and their dog does for Jeep trailers. Any reason? I thought it was an unspoken rule haha

Good questions.

Tail lights:

I did consider TJ tail lights, FJ40 lights, and several other LED light options. There are a lot of options out there, but only a few surface mount lights that seemed to be the right size and didn’t have odd chrome or something. In the end I narrowed it down to a few choices, and didn’t really have a big preference. So, I mocked them up on the back of one of the habitats using cardboard, and Dan helped me pick. The ones we used are from Super Bright LED, and seem fairly nice.

Side story about mounting the tail lights: During assembly of the habitats, I bonded custom plastic inserts in the composite back wall panels and screwed the tail lights in place using stainless steel screws. It seemed like a good mounting solution, but after about 2-3 months, we noticed that the screws were getting loose, so right before Dan left, we drilled through all of the inserts and through-bolted all the back lights in place using stainless bolts and lock nuts on the inside. That stuff just comes up with prototype work…..

I mounted the side marker lights and the reverse camera a bit differently with bond on aluminum mounting plates.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

A completely subjective question, I'm sure, but how come you decided to use a Rhino rack cut apart and not make your own? I see fabrication is not your weak point. lol Also, I like the more flush taillights but am surprised you didn't go with TJ lights like everyone and their dog does for Jeep trailers. Any reason? I thought it was an unspoken rule haha

Roof rack:

Yup, I usually make my own roof racks. I think I’ve made 5 custom racks over the last 25 years. I went with the Rhino Rack this time for a few reasons. First, because I was making two campers at the same time, I was a little pressed for time, so I figured that modifying an existing rack was probably worth it. There are a lot of reasonable racks out there now-a-days, so I was originally a bit undecided on what rack to get and cut down. Dan previously used a Rhino Rack Pioneer rack on his Australia Gladiator, and it sounded like it held up really well, so that seemed like a good option, and Dan was interested in using a Pioneer rack again (they are a sponsor of his). I really didn’t want to design two different rack mounts for the two vehicles, so we both just went with cutting down the same size Pioneer rack. Our racks and mounts are identical at this point. I had most of the mount part fabrication finished/kitted before Dan got here, but when he arrived, Dan cut down the rack parts on my chop saw and he assembled the racks while I finished fabricating custom aluminum standoffs and custom molded fiberglass seal caps for the mounts. The mounts bolt the racks directly to the roll bar through the jeep freedom panels while the fiberglass seal caps urethane (Korapop 225) bond to the upper freedom panel surface making a weather seal between the mount and the roof. There are actually 4 unused bolt holes in the forward JLU roll bar, so I was able to make mounts that bolted directly to those locations with 3/8” bolts without modifying the roll bar in any way. So far, the mounts seem to be holding up well.

 

[AggieOE]

Roof rack:

Yup, I usually make my own roof racks. I think I’ve made 5 custom racks over the last 25 years. I went with the Rhino Rack this time for a few reasons. First, because I was making two campers at the same time, I was a little pressed for time, so I figured that modifying an existing rack was probably worth it. There are a lot of reasonable racks out there now-a-days, so I was originally a bit undecided on what rack to get and cut down. Dan previously used a Rhino Rack Pioneer rack on his Australia Gladiator, and it sounded like it held up really well, so that seemed like a good option, and Dan was interested in using a Pioneer rack again (they are a sponsor of his). I really didn’t want to design two different rack mounts for the two vehicles, so we both just went with cutting down the same size Pioneer rack. Our racks and mounts are identical at this point. I had most of the mount part fabrication finished/kitted before Dan got here, but when he arrived, Dan cut down the rack parts on my chop saw and he assembled the racks while I finished fabricating custom aluminum standoffs and custom molded fiberglass seal caps for the mounts. The mounts bolt the racks directly to the roll bar through the jeep freedom panels while the fiberglass seal caps urethane (Korapop 225) bond to the upper freedom panel surface making a weather seal between the mount and the roof. There are actually 4 unused bolt holes in the forward JLU roll bar, so I was able to make mounts that bolted directly to those locations with 3/8” bolts without modifying the roll bar in any way. So far, the mounts seem to be holding up well.

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Wow! That was well thought out. That's a very fixed mount. So it sounds safe to say that the freedom panels are not really removable anymore. lol Thanks for the response!

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Wow! That was well thought out. That's a very fixed mount. So it sounds safe to say that the freedom panels are not really removable anymore. lol Thanks for the response!

Yeah, the freedom panels aren't removable anymore. In addition to the roof rack mounts, the back edges of the freedom panels are captive in the roof joint of the front habitat wall. I molded custom fiberglass joint parts (that also interface all the way down the B-pillars one each side) that bond to the front habitat wall and over the back edge of the freedom panels. At the beginning of the design, I originally hoped that the freedom panels would be removeable, but it's just not realistic for this specific camper configuration for several reasons.

 

[AggieOE]

How did you address the gap between the freedom panels and underneathe your roof joint adapter? I would imagine that spot would be prone to flexing water ingress.

 

[mog]

Dan's (The Road Chose Me) video showing the camper installed is on YouTube now

 

[KiwiMtnClmbr]

Wranglers have always been a brick in the wind. Bricks do best under 55mph hence the double nickel during the 1970s gas crisis. In my mind you do it right, the box is only a bit bigger than the cab.

These are awesome vehicles, I hope they inspire others.

Best single feature, the spare on the roof.

Completely agreed on the first two . Why is the rooftop spare the best single feature? Getting the weight forward? I did review the rack redesign and more importantly the stout and well thought out and executed mounting job - huge kudos on that accomplishment in addition to the box itself.

I'm struggling immensely with locating two much heavier spares on my own build and it's the biggest hang up to forward progress right now: hence my genuine interest.

 

[KiwiMtnClmbr]

In 50 years I have had 10 flats. To me they are way over rated altho I did twin spares ion the back of my F250 30 years ago. And once the spare is in use my driving style becomes much more conservative.

So for me single spare completely out of the way makes sense. It might look top heavy but keeping the weight central rather than overhanging at the rear seems like a better engineering philosophy.

Right now my tires are pretty skinny and light. The next tires will be even lighter at 215/85R16 Toyos with a 90K KM warranty. The tires I am running today had a 100K KM warranty but they are no longer sold in North America.

I think we all know bigger heavier tires get worse gas mileage too so as an overlander I love the idea of increased range. Going from 255/85R16s to 185/100R16s I went from 17mpg empty on the highway to 22mpg empty on the same route. I love the idea of increasing range by 95miles.... 5mpg x 19 gallon tank.

Same tires and track on the Rubi and the OSB BOX.... so one spare does it all... or if ******** happens, I have 3 spares.



On accessing a spare on the roof.... with a tarp on the hood, or not, one can roll/slide the spare to the hood to the ground and do the opposite with the flat. Once every 10 years....

My goals are all travel in North America so I'm never more than 100 miles from a tire shop or pavement or civilization... True there are plenty of destinations beyond North America where more than one spare is advisable.... but in those places the 185/100R16 or 7.50R16 might be the most common tire size, if you need a 35/12.50R16 it might be months away.

If I was rock crawling or crossing sand dunes at 5psi large floatation tires would be nice but in the Pacific Northwest I have never needed that kind of traction, floatation. Those skinny M&S tires do it all.

Everything we do is a trade off on values to get what works best for us.... and can afford.

Well explained and thanks. Sorry OP for temp hijack!

 

[Mules]

Wow! That was well thought out. That's a very fixed mount. So it sounds safe to say that the freedom panels are not really removable anymore. lol Thanks for the response!

I love the location of your spare on the roof rack. Thanks for explaining how you made if extra strong, by connecting to the roll bar.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

How did you address the gap between the freedom panels and underneathe your roof joint adapter? I would imagine that spot would be prone to flexing water ingress.

It’s a bit hard to explain the joint without a cross section diagram, but the front wall bond joint is about 3 inches wide and spans the joint between the freedom panels and a section of the forward edge of the back hardtop that I reused. It is possible that a leak could develop over time with flex like you noted, but it’s pretty well sealed with a lot of flexible adhesive over a large area, and all of the gutters and drainage features of the stock hardtop joint are still used, so I think if water makes it through the joint, most of it will end up in the internal gutters and run out the drain tubes that route inside the b-pillars and out the bottom of the floor. But, to be totally honest, this is all a bit of an experiment, so leaks and things could happen. Let’s just all hope for the best, and I’ll report back over time with how it performs.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Wranglers have always been a brick in the wind. Bricks do best under 55mph hence the double nickel during the 1970s gas crisis. In my mind you do it right, the box is only a bit bigger than the cab.

These are awesome vehicles, I hope they inspire others.

Best single feature, the spare on the roof.

Yeah, I totally agree that 55mph is a good speed for boxy vehicles like this (and our old Mog). My wife and I often find that we prefer to drive at/under 55mph when we are traveling for months at a time anyway. It’s just more relaxed and you have more time to navigate and such. Depending on conditions, I think driving slower is often a good idea when traveling in foreign countries anyway. And, this vehicle can go 70+ when needed, so that is nice if required. I mean, we usually seek out small back roads anyway, so 55mph is the sweet spot.

So far, having the spare on the roof is working pretty well. Finding a place for the spare tire on a little vehicle like this is a tradeoff. I will be running modest 32" tires on this vehicle, so getting the tire on and off the roof seems fine even when I do it by myself, but it requires a bit of care.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Future marketing,,,, I'd love to see templates, where to cut, what to fab for the transition.... I think there is a huge market to sell the plan. Could be stage 2 including plans for the basic box. And a final stage selling components like the original Brute.... a driveway project for the talented.

Forget the full on conversion, sell/market something easily produced with great profit. Let us figure out windows, doors, refrigeration, wiring, plumbing.... maybe market add on kits tho.

AEV did this ^^^ well, they sold the cab close out, frame extensions and the box..... in bare metal.... plus the diagrams to do it right. But maybe the world is incapable of executing such simple ideas today.
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I have been getting a ton of emails and Instagram DMs from people asking if I will be making more of these vehicles and selling them. Man, selling completed vehicles has a lot of logistical and liability issues to work out. I think you are right that plans and maybe selling some components (like the hard to make molded fiberglass parts) could be a good option. I'll think more about it. That could be a reasonable way to get more of them on the road.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Well explained and thanks. Sorry OP for temp hijack!

Not a problem at all. Feel free to bring up any configuration topics related to my layout. I spent a ton of time comparing different layouts for this (about half of them had the spare on the back), and they all had pros and cons. What billiebob wrote above pretty much sums up my logic on why I ended up with this spare tire placement.

 

[locrwln]

I have been getting a ton of emails and Instagram DMs from people asking if I will be making more of these vehicles and selling them. Man, selling completed vehicles has a lot of logistical and liability issues to work out. I think you are right that plans and maybe selling some components (like the hard to make molded fiberglass parts) could be a good option. I'll think more about it. That could be a reasonable way to get more of them on the road.

Yes please!

Jack