Land Rover Discovery 5 (LR5?) in the wild

[MrWesson]

The biggest problem with the LR3/4 platform off-road is the poor rocker height and break over clearance. Well that and the ‘road hugging' weight. And the inability to fit decent size tires. Wait…where was I? Oh yeah, angles.

So let's compare LR3 vs D5

Approach 37.2* vs 29.5*
Break over 29* vs 25.5*
Departure 28* vs 28*

This is an improvement how?

To be fair, there are some notable improvements. Ground clearance is up. Wheel travel is up. Fording depth is up. Weight is down – significantly! These are all Good Things. (I'm guessing they finally got the alternator off the bottom of the engine – stupid design!)

But the fact remains it isn't designed to be an off-roader in the technical sense. It will likely do very well on mild trails, better than a stock LR3/4 thanks to its electronic trickery. But given how the LR3/4 platform is already limited in its technical offroad abilities due to design limitations this takes those same problems and amplifies them in the name of luxury and on-road comfort.

The styling is a personal matter and maybe it will grow on me. It certainly looks to have a lot of ‘junk in the trunk'. i.e it's got a big *****. But as stated, you can't keep the same styling forever and big/boxy doesn't work with federal crash and economy requirements these days.

Will it sell? Yeah, I bet it will. The simple fact is more people are looking for a family car that can go off road than an off roader than can serve as a family car.

Will I buy one? No. I've already limited out what I can do with the LR3 and for trail work this is a step backwards. So I'm going REALLY backward and building an RRC to pick up where my LR3 leaves off.

Unless my needs change my only hope for a new Rover is the yet-to-be-seen Defender replacement. I've said it before and I'll say it again – give us a new Defender that has more payload/space/range than a Rubicon but maintains the Rubi's capabilities (it is the reigning champ) with full lockers, big tires (at least optional) great angles, and classic looks. Price it a little above the Rubi so it's within reach of those buyers ($50K?). Splash the word ‘overland' around in the advertising and show it in Africa with a roof top tend and a lion or elephant. Do that, and Land Rover's only problem will be building enough of them.

But I'm not holding my breath…

The LR3 is only capable of Mild trails?

News to me as it seems as capable as your willing to get a scratch which is true for every rig.

I'd stack a LR3 with 32's right there with a stock 4dr Rubicon.

Here's the problem. You're looking for a trail rig/crawler to build and the LR3/4 is limited to 33's or smaller by its stock air suspension(and a long wheelbase) Its just not built to be a "rock crawler". IMO Rock Rigs have..

Solid axles
Coil suspension
Short wheelbase
Roll cages
Crazy flex
Locked front and rear

And a trailer to tow it with because you wont be on the road much. A built LR3 can run 80% of the trails out there, get you home in comfort, use everday, and look good out on the town. Buying it as a jumping off platform is a mistake for anyone. You can improve it but pretty much you get what you see.

 

[zelatore]

The LR3 is only capable of Mild trails?

News to me as it seems as capable as your willing to get a scratch which is true for every rig.

I'd stack a LR3 with 32's right there with a stock 4dr Rubicon.

Here's the problem. You're looking for a trail rig/crawler to build and the LR3/4 is limited to 33's or smaller by its stock air suspension(and a long wheelbase) Its just not built to be a "rock crawler". IMO Rock Rigs have..

Solid axles
Coil suspension
Short wheelbase
Roll cages
Crazy flex
Locked front and rear

And a trailer to tow it with because you wont be on the road much. A built LR3 can run 80% of the trails out there, get you home in comfort, use everday, and look good out on the town. Buying it as a jumping off platform is a mistake for anyone. You can improve it but pretty much you get what you see.

I'm not looking for a 'rock crawler', as that conjures up images of buggies on 40s going up 6' vertical faces. I do want something as capable as a stock JK Rubicon that can be mod'ed to for more serious terrain much like a Rubi. All the things you mentioned are good but I'd be looking for them on a Defender more than a Disco.

80% of the trails out there now in an LR3? I question that. I have gotten mine down the Rubicon but it certainly was more work than enjoyment. And most local people will tell you the Rubicon isn't all that much these days compared to what it used to be. Forget getting one down the Dusey. It *might* be possible but in no way practical. Fordyce? I predict nobody will ever get a modern air spring Rover down that trail. Fugetaboutit...

And those are just 3 extremely popular trails here in NorCal that see 1000's of rigs a year.

I used to think I could stack my LR3 up against a stock JK Rubicon, but after driving both the tougher the trail gets the better that Jeep looks. And of course we're comparing a maxed out LR3 at it's limit against a showroom stock JK. The Jeep only goes up from there.

The fact is without at least some of those attributes you listed above you're going to be limited to moderate trails and will need to steer clear of the tough stuff. The LR3 platform is just the wrong tool for technical trails. I've come to that realization and have decided to build another rig so I can 'downgrade' my LR3 and stop trying to make it do what it just isn't going to do.

Should the D5 be an ultra capable wheeler? Probably not, that's the role of the Defender. If you want to get into particulars, they've said the Defender will grow to a 'family' like the Discovery and RR so we should end up with at a couple variants - let's hope one of them takes the approach of maximum capability so we can play with the big boys once again right off the showroom floor (then mod it for more fun ) BUT - it sounds like on many of the critical off-road details the new D5 is a step backward from the past platform. I'm sure the electronics will cover up much of that and provide a work-around that will surprise many just as the LR3 did/does today. But they are just a band-aid to cover cover up the limitations of the platform. Let's be honest, with 20"+ wheels you're going to need 35"+ tires to get any sort of sidewall flex. I don't think the D5's wheel wells are going to accommodate that size tire or be very welcoming to mods that will open them up.

I know I sound like Negative Nancy here and I know I'm in the minority. Like I said, there are some very good improvements with the new platform starting with the 1000 lb weight drop - that's HUGE and I would give almost anything to drop 1000 lbs off my current rig! The diesel option is nice but not as critical to me (I'd still strongly consider it if I were shopping though). Wading depth going up is also a big plus as I've now killed 2 alternators thanks to muddy water; the low mounting of the alternator is a terrible idea for an off-road vehicle and I can only assume is a vestigial trait left over from the Jaguar genies of the motor. And I'm sure they've improved over the already impressive (but no longer a stand-out in the field) Terrain Response system, even though I'm sure everybody who wheels one of these has at some point been frustrated by not being able to manually lock the diffs. The on-road ride and comfort are no doubt also improved as is the economy. These are all the sort of things that will help sell the truck in big numbers and help it appeal to the greatest number of people. It also fits with the current luxury bent of the brand as they push ever-upward with pricing/content/features. Good for them, I hope they sell a million of 'em. But that doesn't make it a better trail rig than the current model, so from our perspective is it 'better'? Time will tell as these things start to appear on the trails. But in the short term, please Land Rover, PLEASE give us a highly capable, moderately priced, easily mod'ed Defender. I want to look green from the reflection of the oval on my rig, not from envy of the Jeep Rubicon that just went over the obstacle I couldn't make.

 

[PhyrraM]

I go out in my LR3 (HD package, only mod is 33" Duratracs) with friends of mine that are Jeepers. Their family has been Jeeping for over 20 years and 3 generations. They have everything from a '47 Willys with fully locked Dana 44s on 35s, CJs, square and round headlight Wrangles and the occasional Cherokee. The LR3 will keep up and usually outperform with anything that isn't fully locked. I admit I don't try the tightest obstacles for size reasons and the serious rock crawling because of the wheelbase. I once got high centered before the 33" tires. Other than that it goes everywhere the Jeeps do. And it does it by just pointing it in the right direction and apply a bit of throttle. On climbs that have the non-locked Jeeps spinning tires, revving engines, taking multiple tries and angles, bouncing off rocks, riding deep tracks, etc the LR3 just goes. Point the wheel, gently press the pedal, keep it moving.....no drama (sometimes less fun though). The A/C is on, the tunes are bumping, and my head isn't getting sunburned all day.

Then I air up the tires and drive it home while they are loading the trailers.

I call it a "go and see anything you want" off roader. As opposed to some Jeeps (and Jeepers?) that seem to be more "let's tackle this challenge".

I love my LR3. It's proven to be best suited to the thins I have done (which scare the hell out of my wife and some friends). And, used, it's tons cheaper than a used Rubicon.

 

[LR Max]

I think we are all forgetting about the dude who took a brand new RRS, did the whatever body lift, and fitted 35s.

So yeah, body lift a D5, fit 35s, go be awesome. That actually sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[zelatore]

I think we are all forgetting about the dude who took a brand new RRS, did the whatever body lift, and fitted 35s.

So yeah, body lift a D5, fit 35s, go be awesome. That actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Ah yes, I don't think the magic there was so much the lift as he had drop brackets made for the diffs. That allowed him to run more lift without compromising CV angles. If the D5 uses a similar approach to diff mounting this could be an option. It does compromise clearance somewhat but it's one way to get the body up and fit bigger tires.

 

[mpinco]

I think we are all forgetting about the dude who took a brand new RRS, did the whatever body lift, and fitted 35s.

So yeah, body lift a D5, fit 35s, go be awesome. That actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Except that the body lift was a one-off that a majority could not install in their garage. Hope LR doesn't loose sight of the accessory and 3rd party market in favor of its current design direction.

 

[zelatore]

Except that the body lift was a one-off that a majority could not install in their garage. Hope LR doesn't loose sight of the accessory and 3rd party market in favor of its current design direction.

Yeah....About that....

 

[kcabpilot]

I don't think LR, or any manufacturer for that matter, designs and builds a vehicle with ease of third party modifications in mind. The ideal scenario for them is - you buy a new car and in a few years, when the warranty expires, you dump it and buy another new one. Of course there are people like me who buy that fresh out of warranty vehicle for half the price it was when new and in a round-about way support the whole system but I don't think the manufacturers consider our interests in the whole scheme of things.

 

[zelatore]

If you could claim any manufacture has mods in mind during production, I'd have to pick Jeep and Harley. But even then I'm not sure how much the factory guys are really thinking about such things. And I'm not likely to buy either (I run Rovers and Triumphs )

 

[Victory_Overland]

If you could claim any manufacture has mods in mind during production, I'd have to pick Jeep and Harley. But even then I'm not sure how much the factory guys are really thinking about such things. And I'm not likely to buy either (I run Rovers and Triumphs )

Can't speak for Jeep because I never have and never will step a foot in a dealership with intent to buy a Rubi. I could honestly say different if they built that SUV/ Safari concept I saw a while back.

Harley for sure has aftermarket and mods in mind. My cousin is on a design team. HD stands for "Hundred Dollars" cuz every trip to the dealer makes a sale of around one hundred bucks on overall average. Also, the have loyalty to their aftermarket suppliers as they pay for shelf time in dealer shelves and also a loyalty that when people buy, the average person is almost gaurenteed to upgrade with HD genuine or aftermarket from the dealer on that day they buy. Their loyalty has a common trend to the aftermarket like Ness, custom chrome, Kuryakyn, etc. and as long as HD keeps building bikes, people will buy their parts that they build. The are invested in HDs success and it's a win win for both.

LR has zero plan for upgrade as their parts are light upgrade bolt ons but nothing major outside of trim from LR or aftermarket. Small companies make a good turn on us risky who are willing to change the fit and form and function but we are a small breed outside of the Defender guys.

Jeep has major aftermarket companies like HD with specific multi-million dollar business around loyal upgrades specific to almost every Jeep model that comes off the line.

 

[Jwestpro]

I call it a "go and see anything you want" off roader. As opposed to some Jeeps (and Jeepers?) that seem to be more "let's tackle this challenge".

I love my LR3. It's proven to be best suited to the things I have done (which scare the hell out of my wife and some friends).

If there were a "like" button on this forum I'd have used that!

My mods for "off road" are LLAMS height control and 32" tires plus full underbody armor. I've been on trails with signs saying "highly recommended 35" tires, short wheel base, lockers" After pre-walking my lines, it was frankly not hard at all. No spotting, just had my gf in the passenger seat thinking I'm kind of silly. "Jeep dudes" camping nearby said "you ran that in this?!"

The LLAMS control allows 2-3 more inches on demand and the fender liner mods allow true use of full articulation. The mods allow the LR3/4 to be quite the all-around travel to trail vehicle.

I'd LOVE an 8 spd TDV6 with those ventilated seats but I'm concerned the above ability will be lost.

Functionally I'm also concerned there won't be any room left under the hood for a huge 2nd battery, less chance for a 2nd fuel tank like I have now, long wait for swing out tire carrier, etc. I also really hope the cargo area floor to ceiling height is not shortened. I don't think I want just a huge station wagon.

So who on here is looking at Mercedes G wagens now....? Twin turbo V8, solid axles, lockers, gutter roof, big windows, and a simple hand brake...!