Larger lift for expedition rig

[mxtaco48]

I am at a crossroads.I have a 95 locked FJZ80. What are the drawbacks of running bigger tires(35-37) with an 8" lift for expeditions. Nothing too soon. I'm stilla college student and other than big bend...most trips would be out of my range for a few more years anyways while I do do some trailriding and "rockcrawling"(nothing too extreme)

 

[Sgt Grunt]

Maybe a few things to consider... The taller you go the more expensive it gets, tire price and lift components and not to mention gearing. 285's and the Old Man Emu lift are great and you will not have to regear. 315's and a 4" or more inch lift and it starts to get more complicated. Consider truck stability as well, I run 315's and at 80 mph I feel totally comfortable even with my wife driving. I drove one with 37's and it was bad!!! Looked really cool, just drove like crap...

Check out www.sleeoffroad.com and look at the newbie guide as well, lots of good info. I recommend calling them as well, ask for Ben. He is loaded with information.

Just my $.02 :costumed-smiley-007

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Fuel economy, power, added stress to parts and decreased handling are all a couple of things that come to mind. That being said you can get a 35" tire under an 80 Series with far less than 8" of lift, more like 5" of lift. The magic number with 80's is the 3" lift. You can do a 3" lift for ~$1000 said and done, ever inch thereafter is another $1000 (generalizing things but it has some truth behind it). With taller lifts it becomes a necessity to replace things like control arms, track/panhard bars, gears in axles, etc. In addition, with anything over 5-6" your pinion angle will suffer drastically, possibly beyond what a CV shaft can do for you... thus a cut/turn may be required. IMO all these factors diminish your expedition "worthiness", a major factor in building & prepping a rig for serious overland travel, is knowing you can find spares, etc.

 

[Hltoppr]

You could buy a Suzuki Samurai, spring over it, and slap some 32"s on it for your crawling needs for less than you could do the lift and tires correctly on your 80 series....

35s for exped work....maybe...I know a few folks running 'em here (Desertdude for one...), but I'm not a big fan of big rubber because of the gearing issues, power/economy loss, and availability of spares in BFE....

I try to not put anything on my rigs that I couldn't find in a small town in Mexico.....

-H-

 

[toyrunner95]

I'm stilla college student

u might want to think about some english classes. hahaha j/k

im in the same boat, i have a 84 pickup that is fun to bash on but last summer it gave up the ghost. so i have been pondering all sorts of new rigs and ideas.

for now honestly, from experience, save your money and wait untill you are out of college. i know its the most frustrating thing in the world to do i have been doing it for 3 years. but if you wait... the rewards will be much greater.

the market is always changing and there is lots of new stuff.

im still debating getting another toyota and do a solid axel swap, OR get a wrangler that is easier and cheaper to maintain, plus it can go more places with less fuss.

after you graduate you will have ample time to build an expedition rig of your choice. rock crawling is fun but trust me. wait till you have a decent income to fix what you break.

 

[NorCalSam]

This is a really good question. Fist off your starting with a great vehicle for overlanding. I too have an 80 and I can’t say enough about how great this vehicle is the strength and reliability is just incredible the only thing is I wish that we had a diesel option in the U.S. So you have one of, if not the best vehicle or platform available for this. But there are things that the 80 is not, It’s not a rock crawler or a trail rig. It is a little too big, way to heavy and the axles although strong and overbuilt were never intended to run 37 to 38” tires. It can be done but not without a cost in more ways that one.

When building or moding a vehicle for overlanding you must first ask yourself some very important questions like what are the strengths and weaknesses of my rig? What kind of terrain will I encounter or where will I be exploring? For instance if one lived or was planning on exploring mostly areas in the artic region where he was going to travel over a lot of tundra etc. pushing the limits with tire size might be a necessity. Lastly, you need to ask yourself what mods would be ideal and what do I really need for what I’m going to be doing?

If you are honest with yourself and smart about this you will find that aside from cool gadgets that make camping easier you don’t want to mod the truck to much. If you brake down in the middle of nowhere finding or getting that part or tire size might be next to impossible. You will also find that in overlanding you drive more on-road than off-road. IMHO center of gravity is about the most important thing in a 4x4. I would rather stack a few rocks, winch, or replace a driveshaft then roll the truck any day.

The best bang for your buck on an 80 is a OME 2.5” HD lift kit then get yourself a good set of 33s (305s) this is what you need. What is ideal IMO is the FOR 3” lift kit running 35” tires, this system perfect for the 80, is a good balance and it pushes the raged edge of castor, COG, and the birfs.

I ran the con with a 2.5" lift and 285s with not a mark on my drive shaft and no rock stacking. I would not want a 8" lift no more than 4" for me.

Let me know if I can help more.

Sam

 

[tacollie]

That is to much lift for that truck. With a 3" lift, some good 33's, and skilled driving that vehicle is going to be extremely capable. I am in college to and understand what you are dealing with. I have a 2.75" lift and although it is nice the biggest offroad improvement was when I went to 255/85r16. It is amazing what a good tire and a rear locker can do. Stick with the OME 2.5" kit and some 33 or 34" tires. You will be able to go a lot of places and not worry about breaking expensive parts.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

It is a tough call because I hopped on 35s a few years ago after being on 33's for years and havn't gone back as well. I too like a smaller rig too (it is funner when things are harder sometimes) but that is almost my philosophy with 35s versus the guys on 37s and even larger. And it is a lot of fun doing terrain and technical items that are almost insane IMO like the Sluices (not that I have done them) and some of the harder trails in Moab. Kane Creek is awesome and gorgoeus but it is not as fun as some of the harder stuff, for me at least.. So I am actually content with 35s for these reasons.

37s these days in the American industry are all the rage even with guys with 80 series. I must have seen more 80s with 37s last year at Moab than I have in my life.. That said I will personally never, ever, run 37's. Because you can do with 35's what you can do with 37's. With 35's it really makes your rig into a tough and extremely extremely capable rig. And you are actually the "small guy" in a lot of situations. And in my opinion there is a big difference between 33 and 35s as well in terms of off-road ability to simply get over larger rocks without stacking. With my 35's I was keeping up with extremely, extremely built rigs on much larger meats on trails as hard as Pritchett Canyon, etc... Last year on behind the rocks to pritchett I was the only rig on 35's and actually felt oddly "traditional" for some reason... So it is funny that we are calling them large on this forum But makes sense too...

You will also see a few odd ball rigs that are factory equipped with 35's (Hummer H2 for example, not that I like this vehicle) but it means that 35s are streetable and can be controlled and are adequate to be used in even a factory application. I am downgrading to BFG ATs from mud terrains, this will make the street drivability of them much better as well. That said I DD Goodyear MTRs for several years without a problem other than some annoying noise...

So that is my philosophy on it...

 

[Pokey]

I second tacollie. Im running the 255/85mts on a 94 locked cruiser with OME stock height lift which lifted me a good 2" over my old saggy springs. The 255s are alot lighter which translates into nice steering- great on road feel and my gas mileage is still 14/16mpg running pretty high pressure in the wheels. (thats with shortbus bumper/8kwinch/and sliders).

The 255s also allow use of the stock Toyota (tokiko) shocks which work great if you dont plan to haul over 500lbs regularly. They;ll set you back $125 for the set thru CDan and are a world of difference to the 100k miles deadness in the original ones that youve become acustom to.

The Mts arent too bad in the cruiser if you throw a bit of soundproofing in the rear/door pillars/tranny hump and larger spans.

Down the road you can always throw in some springs spacers for a bit more lift...and then if you decide to go for the 2.5"lift---you will get a descent price for your used OME;s for sure.

If you still are banging stuff offroad- id spend money first on some protection-sliders-front bumper-t-case guard which you will keep down the road even if you are goign to upgrade to the 2.5"lift.

Youd be pretty surprised what this fairly small investment will transform your vehicle........and allow you to see if your offroad excursions require more.

 

[Grim Reaper]

My last truck the more I did and the more I lifted it the less I like driving it.

When it was a on 32's and open I drove it all the time. Once it was on 35s and Detroit's both ends it was just a chore to drive at speed.


I shoe horned a set of 33's on my 4 Runner with NO lift and I am loving it. It handles great. Rides great on the hwy and while the brakes are right on the edge of what they can handle it never feels bad. Putting V6 calipers on it soon and converting the rear to disc to help that.

33's on a Expo rig is plenty.

 

[Green96D1]

This is a really good question. Fist off your starting with a great vehicle for overlanding. I too have an 80 and I can’t say enough about how great this vehicle is the strength and reliability is just incredible the only thing is I wish that we had a diesel option in the U.S. So you have one of, if not the best vehicle or platform available for this. But there are things that the 80 is not, It’s not a rock crawler or a trail rig. It is a little too big, way to heavy and the axles although strong and overbuilt were never intended to run 37 to 38” tires. It can be done but not without a cost in more ways that one.

When building or moding a vehicle for overlanding you must first ask yourself some very important questions like what are the strengths and weaknesses of my rig? What kind of terrain will I encounter or where will I be exploring? For instance if one lived or was planning on exploring mostly areas in the artic region where he was going to travel over a lot of tundra etc. pushing the limits with tire size might be a necessity. Lastly, you need to ask yourself what mods would be ideal and what do I really need for what I’m going to be doing?

If you are honest with yourself and smart about this you will find that aside from cool gadgets that make camping easier you don’t want to mod the truck to much. If you brake down in the middle of nowhere finding or getting that part or tire size might be next to impossible. You will also find that in overlanding you drive more on-road than off-road. IMHO center of gravity is about the most important thing in a 4x4. I would rather stack a few rocks, winch, or replace a driveshaft then roll the truck any day.

The best bang for your buck on an 80 is a OME 2.5” HD lift kit then get yourself a good set of 33s (305s) this is what you need. What is ideal IMO is the FOR 3” lift kit running 35” tires, this system perfect for the 80, is a good balance and it pushes the raged edge of castor, COG, and the birfs.

I ran the con with a 2.5" lift and 285s with not a mark on my drive shaft and no rock stacking. I would not want a 8" lift no more than 4" for me.

Let me know if I can help more.

Sam

I agree 100%

my father had a 95 fj-80 OME 3" lift and 305/75/16's procomp x-terrains

that truck performed flawlessly. It sat at the right height and drove like a charm and when we would go off-camber depending on the trail I did not feel as if the truck would ever go over.

Being a college student I understand how u feel buddy.

 

[ginericLC]

I just sold an 80. I experimented some with springs, spacers, and tires. In the end I ended up with the OME 419 front with the J spring in the rear and L shocks all around. I was very happy with it. I ran 35" Toyo MTs which is by far the best tire I've ever owned. Fully loaded the J rear was probably a little light. The Slee 4" rear would be a better choice for an expedition built rig for the rear. However, it is a short spring which will require retainers if flexed up frequently. I have a friend who actually switches back and forth between the J rears and the Slee 4" in the rear depending upon load and where he is going. 8" lift on an 80 will lead to a rollover pretty darn quick. If you didn't roll right away you'd start breaking things left and right. 4" is sort of the max before it gets real expensive. After 4" and 35" tires you are looking at having to do axle upgrades, special driveshafts, new panhards, new front control arms, cryo'd gears etc... The 315/75/16 is getting to be a very common tire size. I wouldn't hesitate to run it on an expedition equipped 80, 4.88 gears would be my choice so the highway speeds would be manageable. But I guess it depends where you live, in Idaho our speed limit is 75mph. If I lived out East I might consider 5.29s.

Rereading your original post and seeing "rockcrawling" definitely makes me believe a 4" lift would be your best bet with a 35" tire. And by the way, I've wheeled with some big 80s and they've never made it any further down the trail than I did. They did spend a lot more and break a lot more.

 

[CodyLX450]

Speaking from experience...this is pretty pricey.

But...even if you can afford the lift and tire combo and make it work for your 80....can you afford the 10mpg and deal with being slow and unable to go through some fast food drive thrus?

 

[WildHare]

My last truck the more I did and the more I lifted it the less I like driving it... Once it was on 35s and Detroit's both ends it was just a chore to drive at speed... I shoe horned a set of 33's on my 4 Runner with NO lift and I am loving it.

I wholeheartedly agree for that smaller vehicle: big lifts are bad. I ran a 1985 4Runner with 33x12.5 on the old saggy stock springs (250k miles). The vehicle handled great on road. Lifting was the worst modification made to the vehicle. To clarify, the offroading was running established trails with the occasional wash or breakover. The vehicle was getting almost 22mpg before the lift. After the lift, the vehicle gets closer to 16mpg. Yes, the articulation with stock springs was terrible, but greater articulation can be had without great lift.

Also, I noticed no difference in my ability to climb hills or go through mud with the bigger, wider tires, (I was running 31x10.5's). In order to be truly more effective in mud, I'd have to run 40"+ mud boggers with a bigger engine. However, those requirements logically lead to a bigger vehicle, etc. Quickly, the cycle becomes never-ending.

However, none of this may apply for a large FZJ-80. I purchased my first FZJ-80 a few weeks ago. My modification priorities are:

1. Protection/lift points/tow points. (ie: bumpers, sliders, etc.)
2. Heavier duty springs/shocks to handle the extra load of said protection and other equipment
3. Largest all-terrain tires the stock springs can permit. If fender trimming is an option (as it is on 1st gen 4Runners), I'll consider it to fit larger tires.

When a tough offroad situation comes along, I'll finesse my way through it. It seems to me that it's easier to apply technique to overcome an obstacle with a nearly stock vehicle than it is to engineer a better vehicle, at least for the offroading I do.

my .02.

-Dan