LifePO4 and solar build for my Land Rover

jeegro

Adventurer
Raw inefficient currents? No such thing.

Yeah I made that term up. The thought was that if let's say 20 amps goes into the BCDC from the alt or solar, perhaps 19 might come out from the BCDC into the battery, due to any inefficiencies within the BCDC

If the alt and solar are running though the BCDC, then monitoring the BCDC will show what goes in the battery. If you want to monitor the alt and solar, you need another shunt on the input of the BCDC.

I just want to measure the total charge current (alt+solar) from the BCDC, separate from any loads, so I have a 2nd shunt between the battery monitor shunt and BCDC earth.

Won't the solar and alternator earths also show similar current flow to the BCDC earth? So I need to know whether to put the alt/solar earths on the battery side of the battery monitor shunt, or the metered side of the shunt. I'll know pretty quickly once I fire it up, just hoping to save myself some wiring trouble
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
If you only want to measure the BCDC, then run the BCDC through the shunt. Put the alt and solar on the battery side.
 

jeegro

Adventurer
If you only want to measure the BCDC, then run the BCDC through the shunt. Put the alt and solar on the battery side.

I also have a battery monitor shunt, separate from the BCDC shunt, that should measure everything. What I'm unclear on is where to earth the solar and alternator input... directly to the house battery, or on the battery monitor shunt? In other words, will the same 40 amp current flow through both the BCDC earth and the alt/solar earth's?
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
What I'm unclear on is where to earth the solar and alternator input... directly to the house battery,

Yes, direct to house battery. Then the only current that will be measured is what flows through the bcdc and the bcdc and soc shunts.


or on the battery monitor shunt?

No, unless on the battery side of that shunt which is the same as direct to battery.


In other words, will the same 40 amp current flow through both the BCDC earth and the alt/solar earth's?

Yes, it will...but not in the same direction.

Ben Franklin got it backwards; turns out that electrons actually flow from neg to pos. (Thus, those English positive ground cars are actually correct, and the rest of us are all backasswards.)

So...
the electrons flow from the solar, through the solar neg to ground...
then from ground through the battery neg to the battery...
then through the battery to the battery pos...
then from the battery pos to the bcdc...
then through the bcdc back to the solar pos...

thereby completing the circuit.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Wait...it's late and I'm tired and I'm just about to hit the sack and I think I screwed that up somehow...but not seeing the error right offhand.

Lemme sleep on it and come back to it after some morning coffee.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Ah, I think I see the prob...I've been listening to you. :) Shouldn't have done that...

I just looked at the bcdc manual instead. :)

The ground on the bcdc is only so the bcdc has power to operate itself. If you put a shunt on that, it will only measure the few watts that the bcdc draws to power itself.

So yea, the alt/solar grounds goto what is called the "charge shunt" in your diagram.

The bcdc ground is technically a load and should be on your load shunt. [Edit: though actually, it most likely draws power from the engine battery, so just ground it - no shunt unless you add a load shunt to the engine battery...and you know you want to... :) )
 
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jeegro

Adventurer
Ah, I think I see the prob...I've been listening to you. :) Shouldn't have done that...

I just looked at the bcdc manual instead. :)

The ground on the bcdc is only so the bcdc has power to operate itself. If you put a shunt on that, it will only measure the few watts that the bcdc draws to power itself.

So yea, the alt/solar grounds goto what is called the "charge shunt" in your diagram.

The bcdc ground is technically a load and should be on your load shunt. [Edit: though actually, it most likely draws power from the engine battery, so just ground it - no shunt unless you add a load shunt to the engine battery...and you know you want to... :) )

Haha, yep, I confuse myself sometimes too.

Where in the manual does it say that?

I emailed Redarc and got this:

REDARC said:
Yes, you will need to wire the earth of the BCDC to the common side of the shunt. The other side of the shunt will ONLY be wired directly to the battery.

So, opposite of what you said. He didn't say where to earth the solar/alternator though.

My current theory (here we go again :)) is the solar/alt should be grounded at the same contact point of the BCDC earth, on the charge shunt. If it's grounded on the common side of the battery monitor shunt, current will flow from solar/alt to the BCDC, skipping the battery monitor shunt, flow across the "charge shunt" and cancel itself out with the charge current from the BCDC earth. The "charge shunt" would show somewhere near zero amps, possible negative. The battery monitor shunt would be correct, because it sees the solar/alt earth and the BCDC earth on the same side. So the BCDC "consumes" the current from the solar/alt earths, and then produces current on its own earth.
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Where in the manual does it say that?

It doesn't say that, it's obvious from the (limited) wiring diagram.


I emailed Redarc and got this:



So, opposite of what you said.

Not opposite of what I said...

He's assuming a single shunt measuring all input/output to/from the battery. Since the bcdc ground is for powering the electronics of the bcdc unit - with a single shunt setup - it's draw should run through the shunt to be measured.

But you're not running a single shunt setup, and one of your shunts is intended to only measure what charge goes into the battery.


He didn't say where to earth the solar/alternator though.

On the charge shunt, at the end opposite the battery connection, so the charge going into the battery gets measured.

This is due to the way the bcdc is setup...only the pos runs through it. The bcdc's ground is only for the bcdc electronics.

It would be different with say an inverter/charger, where the battery neg would be connected to the unit with the same size wire as the pos.

The bcdc isn't doing that, it only handles the pos and needs no neg connection except to power itself. Same with an ACR - it only needs a neg connection to power the on-board computer and the electromagnetic solenoid.


My current theory (here we go again :)) is the solar/alt should be grounded at the same contact point of the BCDC earth, on the charge shunt.

It's pretty much irrelevant where you ground it...it only carries the few watts needed to power the bcdc electronics.


If it's grounded on the common side of the battery monitor shunt, current will flow from solar/alt to the BCDC, skipping the battery monitor shunt

(Not sure what you mean by "common side". Assuming you mean "battery side"...)

Not if the alt/solar are grounded to the charge shunt on the side opposite the soc shunt.

Power would flow from alt/solar - through both charge and soc shunts - to the bcdc neg, but only a few watts and only when alt or solar are active.

The bcdc neg is not really important.








, flow across the "charge shunt" and cancel itself out with the charge current from the BCDC earth. The "charge shunt" would show somewhere near zero amps, possible negative. The battery monitor shunt would be correct, because it sees the solar/alt earth and the BCDC earth on the same side. So the BCDC "consumes" the current from the solar/alt earths, and then produces current on its own earth.


Uh...I gotta run and will have to wait till later to try and parse that.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Sorry, the bcdc neg is for powering the unit AND measuring voltage. It takes two wires to do the voltage tango.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Then why is the BCDC negative wire the same gauge (~8 AWG) as the solar and alternator positive wires?

Must be for safety. In the wiring diagram in the manual, the solar neg is connected straight to the battery via ground - it doesn't run "through" the bcdc.
 

jeegro

Adventurer
Hmm, ok. In that case, I'm not sure if 'charge shunt' will be accurate, due to the Magnum SBC that combines the start and house battery, which shares the same alternator earth. Granted it should only be a couple amps TOPS that goes from the lithium to the start battery, it will still not truly represent the amps the BCDC is producing. it would be: BCDC amps minus whatever the start battery is taking from the lithium.

I think the only way to get the accurate charge amps of the BCDC is to put the shunt on the positive side (brown wire of BCDC).

I'd rather not re-wire it and add additional fuses, so I think I'll live with it.
 

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