LR3 coil spring conversion... Technical advice needed before I go insane

tscottg

New member
Back in an LR3 again...

Hoping someone can shed some light on this subject... and yes, I know that I will lose cross articulation and auto leveling feature..

I've bought one that already has an "Economy"coil conversion that does not suit my goals for a semi-daily driver/Uwharrie trail rider/beach cruiser/boat tow rig in Coastal North Carolina.

The truck was converted a year ago with a basic kit from Strut Masters which DOES NOT use OE style coils and struts and DOES NOT have a secret sauce box to turn off the warnings... It would appear they are selling a basic coil/strut combo from a 2005 Ford Expedition based on my measurements and visual inspection. Driving it reflects that the spring rates are grossly inadequate for a vehicle of its weight. I called Strut Masters and they declined to confirm citing their technical information/spring rates were "proprietary information"

Moving forward... I have a set of LT275/65R18 Nitto Ridge Grapplers mounted to OEM V6 wheels (5 spoke) waiting to go on so I will need a lift of ~2.5" to accomodate the tire set up.

I spoke with AB today about their kits... My stress point is that I've read several posts on different forums about the bushings in the upper strut mount failing. I asked about replacement parts for future servicing (ie. replace a failed strut in the future) and they said individual parts are not available and the parts in their kit were also proprietary. Same answer received when I asked about the spring rates of their AB brand 2" lift kit and if the valving of the shocks provided with their kit is up to snuff for the spring rate of the OME HD. Only answer was "We've sold hundreds of kits so you should buy one too instead of attempting to band-aid your EAS"

Side note, Lucky8 does not offer a kit w/ lift... only option is to buy a standard Dunlop conversion w/ ECU and add OME springs after the fact, per their rep (I did not speak to Justin or Erik, and Stephen is no longer there.. I cant remember the name of the person I spoke with)


I understand that this is not rocket science but my technical mind wont let it go... I am not trying to debunk some trade secrets, re-invent the wheel, or impede capitalism, just want to make a good long term decision and be sure that I can service a spring conversion moving forward because I plan on keeping this one for a while. I also believe that you deserve to know what you're buying if you're spending $1300 on a kit. I am in no way trying to insult any of these companies, AB and Lucky8 do a lot to support the LR community and I am happy to support them!


I was a service advisor/manager for 2 different LR dealers for ~10 years and this is my 7th personal LR3... I just do not have a lot of experience with coil conversions and it doesn't seem prudent to refit EAS as the lines have been open to the elements for a year and was converted because due to 1 failed strut which was not addressed and ultimately burned up the compressor.

Thanks for your help!

Scott
 
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nwoods

Expedition Leader
Cant you order OEM coils and ECU's? Mine was a factory springer, I could probably find the VIN, might help you narrow your search within the OEM listings. The factory springs were too low for me. I found King Springs from Austrialia to be a good combo of lift and spring rate
 

tscottg

New member
I am fairly certain the RLM is so integrated to the electronics that the OEM Coil equipped electronics cannot be retrofitted
 

Ray_G

Explorer
Scott

I'm a Marine, so I'm kinda dumb...but what, exactly, is your question? (I know we've talked about a fair amount of this over FB messenger).

Are you looking for spring rates?
If so, all that is on this forum in a couple of places, but to be accurate (there was a typo in a previous post if someone searched): OME has both MD and HD coils for the Discovery 3 application. It would seem AB's premium +2 coil conversion uses the MD springs (OME 2744 (F 480#, rate of 530lbf/in) & OME 2746 (R 600#, 680lbf/in)), whereas the heavy load kit has the HD coils (OME 2745 (F 480# but 670 lbf/in) and OME 2743 (R 600#, & 800lbf/in)).

The OME part #'s are avail on AB's site: Standard duty (click into front/rear) and heavy duty (same)

For the sake of discussion I just got a set of Dobinsons which are supposed to be 400kg (so call it 880#) for the back, and as we discussed will likely refresh the dampers all the way around by buying the AB HD kit minus the computer. ($750 for that).

If you are asking about upper strut bushings, I've never heard of one failing-and have 70k on mine. Bradshaw has quite a bit on his too, and ultimately if it fails likely easiest/fastest/best to replace the whole unit since that is a one for one swap out.

As far as shock valving...I think that's a lot of science for little gain-but that's my uninformed opinion...I simply don't dwell on the shocks with this like I did with Coyote's suspension upgrades ala Bilstein, Fox, etc. Not sure it actually matters all that much given what we're working with (a pig heavy truck that has independent suspension).

r-
Ray
 
@Ray_G Great info on the spring rates; do you happen to have travel lengths from stop to stop on the front and rear shock/strut. I'm looking for full travel and overall length fully compressed (out of the vehicle) and fully extended (out of the vehicle) if you have this info?

Cheers and Semper Attack!
 

tscottg

New member
Ray- You're exactly right and maybe I am overthinking this and realistically anything has to be better than what I'm currently using. Also, I did not realize Bradshaw had converted too... I thought he was still on air.

The AB kit would likely outlast the truck but I'd probably purchase another LR3 to swap things to if I experience a catastrophic failure.

Bilstien does not make replacement struts for the coil LR3. OEM struts are ~$250 each.
Rimmer Bros lists a Britpart replacement shock but do not ship them to the US (probably because they are gas filled)

I'm definitely buying the AB OME HD kit but I do not want to be forced into buying a complete replacement kit in the unlikely event of a failure.

With all that said, I have a disdain for the term "proprietary information"

Guess it's time to whip out the plastic... Hope to see you guys soon!

-S
 

Ray_G

Explorer
@Ray_G Great info on the spring rates; do you happen to have travel lengths from stop to stop on the front and rear shock/strut. I'm looking for full travel and overall length fully compressed (out of the vehicle) and fully extended (out of the vehicle) if you have this info?

Cheers and Semper Attack!

Info I have is what is either posted, or in the hyperlinks to the specs. Believe the spec sheet has the uncompressed length in it if you click on the link and scroll to the bottom.
R-
Ray


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Ray_G

Explorer
Ray- You're exactly right and maybe I am overthinking this and realistically anything has to be better than what I'm currently using. Also, I did not realize Bradshaw had converted too... I thought he was still on air.

The AB kit would likely outlast the truck but I'd probably purchase another LR3 to swap things to if I experience a catastrophic failure.

Bilstien does not make replacement struts for the coil LR3. OEM struts are ~$250 each.
Rimmer Bros lists a Britpart replacement shock but do not ship them to the US (probably because they are gas filled)

I'm definitely buying the AB OME HD kit but I do not want to be forced into buying a complete replacement kit in the unlikely event of a failure.

With all that said, I have a disdain for the term "proprietary information"

Guess it's time to whip out the plastic... Hope to see you guys soon!

-S

Scott-
If you hit a tip over point reach out to Dobinsons USA. The timeframe is longer than you want to wait but they have shocks that go with their coils, I didn't ask about details bc I was/am content with the AB setup in terms of dampening.

JB switched to coils on Clifford some time ago. Still has the 4(s) with EAS of course.
R-
Ray


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tscottg

New member
Installed the AB kit w/ OME HD springs earlier this week. Also slapped on a set of E load LT275/65R18 Nitto Ridge Grapplers... This thing is standing TALL!!
 

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tscottg

New member
Wired up the orange box this morning.. all lights are off but while driving it will intermittently pop up with “Suspension Fault-Do not exceed 30 mph” and immediately clear.

Guess I’m calling AB on Monday to troubleshoot.

Side note: The orange box is an in-line filter for the high speed CAN bus. Now I have a CEL and the PCM, TCM, RLM, TCCM, and Junction Box (BCM/Fuse box) are no longer showing on the network via my iCarsoft LRII Tool and a generic OBD2 reader can’t connect either.
 
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Ray_G

Explorer
When I hardwired mine it never worked properly. When I flashed it, it worked fine with nothing but the red suspension light. GAP works fine, as does scan gauge, in that configuration.

Truck looks good.


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tscottg

New member
@Ray_G

I took your approach and took out the hard wiring (used the supplied blue quick connects to reconnect data wires) and now have communications w/ CAN system. Tried the Flash route and still have the "30 mph" EAS fault msg any time the needle passes 30 mph up or it is no longer registering the Air Supply fault code but now I have a C1A00 "Control Module Failure" fault (which I've not had before) and their should be a -XX (C1A00-XX) but their isn't so I cannot determine what module it is referring to. I'll try again at work with the Snap-On Super Special scan tool.

I hope AB can help me sort this tomorrow.

Any suggestions in the interim?

Update: Fixed, I think! Thanks to a Reddit post I found after firing up the google machine - Recalibrated Steering Angle Sensor and message is no longer present.
 
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Ray_G

Explorer
Scott-
That's good news. As you are seeing here, and know from your time with these, it's a bit like a windows laptop half the time. Shut it down, restart, hard re-start, etc. I think I ended up flashing it twice before it fully 'took' and then since then I haven't touched it for fear of upsetting the Rover gods. Once you get it dialed in, it's solid.
r-
Ray
 

tscottg

New member
@Ray_G

It all started again while driving to work this morning. This time with HDC fault, Special Programs Unavailable, yellow BRAKE light, and the 30mph warning dinging constantly while on the highway.

Snap On Modus Ultra retrieved these codes:
U0126 - Lost Comms - Steering Angle Sensor
U0428 - Invalid Data Received - Steering Angle Sensor
U0132 - Lost Comms - Ride Level Module
C1A00 - Vehicle Dynamics Module
U0128 - Lost Comms - Park Brake Module
U0416 - Invalid Data Received - Vehicle Dynamics Module
U0001 - High Speed CAN Comm Bus
U0102 - Lost Comm - TCCM
U0127 - Lost Comm - TPMS

I left a message with AB Tech Support about an hour ago... anxiously awaiting their call.

I will report back what we come up with and hopefully this helps others moving forward.
 

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