LR3 Market.

[R_Lefebvre]

Actually, I think the drive for cheap and easy assembly is not what has led to them being difficulty to repair and service. That drive is what has led us to the use of "christmas trees", push pins and clips. As well as helped drive the massive improvement in fit and finish we've seen the past few decades. Largely aided by huge investments in engineering resources dedicated to GD&T and guaging. Pieces that fit together well don't just look better to the customer, but they are also easier to assemble.

What *has* led to the difficulty and expense to repair has been the desire for increased performance and longevity in the vehicle.

Increased performance means complicated suspension systems, and big engines stuffed into smaller cars, now with a huge increase in use of forced induction, etc. The drive for longevity is actually behind the use of non-servicable bearings, etc.

I know it's a really bitter pill to swallow here but... non-greasable, non-servicable bearings (for example) are more durable and longer lasting in *regular* use than greasable units.

 

[michaelgroves]

That's true. Cars today are way more reliable and will almost certainly last more miles (though perhaps not more years) than cars of 30, 40 50 years ago. Thirty years ago, 100,000km was the point at which one expected to do an engine overhaul, and many cars had service intervals of 5000km. It was about that time that the Japanese came and taught us that cheaply built cars could be far more reliable than expensively built cars.

The economic writing is on the wall for cars or trucks that need features like field-serviceability and simplicity, because those features impose incredibly expensive penalties in terms of cost, reliability, and optimal mass-market design.

As a small-scale analogy, compare a completely serviceable mechanical fuel pump (does anyone still make those???), versus a cheap but well-designed pressed-steel sealed version. The latter is more reliable and a tiny fraction of the cost, but when it does break, you throw it away and buy a new one. Maybe Land Roverss too!

 

[Snagger]

Actually, I think the drive for cheap and easy assembly is not what has led to them being difficulty to repair and service. That drive is what has led us to the use of "christmas trees", push pins and clips. As well as helped drive the massive improvement in fit and finish we've seen the past few decades. Largely aided by huge investments in engineering resources dedicated to GD&T and guaging. Pieces that fit together well don't just look better to the customer, but they are also easier to assemble.

What *has* led to the difficulty and expense to repair has been the desire for increased performance and longevity in the vehicle.

Increased performance means complicated suspension systems, and big engines stuffed into smaller cars, now with a huge increase in use of forced induction, etc. The drive for longevity is actually behind the use of non-servicable bearings, etc.

I know it's a really bitter pill to swallow here but... non-greasable, non-servicable bearings (for example) are more durable and longer lasting in *regular* use than greasable units.

I understand your point, and agree up to a point, but clutches and timing belts are consumables, and it shouldn't require the removal of the entire body to service them. It's poor design, whatever attempts are made to justify it. While manufacturers would suffer for not providing what the customer wants and cannot tell the customer what they should have, they should design vehicle sub-assemblies to be repairable and maintenance-friendly.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yes, but don't forget, the OEM's are also trying to please the dealerships by forcing you to take your car to them for service. The dealerships have been squeazed to near-zero profits on the sale of cars. Just as the OEM's sell cars only to make money on the financing (at least, they used to be), the dealerships are only in it for the service.

If they made the cars easy to repair at home... people would.

And again, we come back to the simple fact, that we are an incredibly small proportion of the market. The majority of the market just doesn't care.

 

[Snagger]

Yes, but don't forget, the OEM's are also trying to please the dealerships by forcing you to take your car to them for service. The dealerships have been squeazed to near-zero profits on the sale of cars. Just as the OEM's sell cars only to make money on the financing (at least, they used to be), the dealerships are only in it for the service.

If they made the cars easy to repair at home... people would.

And again, we come back to the simple fact, that we are an incredibly small proportion of the market. The majority of the market just doesn't care.

Too true - most modern Euroboxes need lots of items to be stripped out of the engine bay just to replace a headlamp bulb. The intention may be to generate work for the franchised dealers, but the result is a load of vehicles being driven around in varying states of disrepair as the owners decide to live with the expensive faults. So, this policy of increasing service and repair revenue is, in fact, just endangering the public.