M1101 Brake Conversion Question

[JPShooter]

I've been searching this forum as well as the web in general and have not found anything directly addressing this question.

I have an M1101, and for now I am going to use the trailer as originally equipped, however I am doing research for future upgrades, and brake system is the item I'm looking into presently.

So what are the advantages of converting the surge brake system over to straight electric vs. doing an electric over hydraulic conversion?

I can see that cost might be an issue with the electric over hydraulic unit being pretty costly, but would that not be the only item needed in an electric over hydraulic conversion?

Would it not be easier to do electric over hydraulic since you can use the stock brakes (I'm assuming so anyway)?

I take it that should I ever wish to upgrade to disc brakes (not sure why I would on this trailer, just saying) that I would have to have an electric over hydraulic system to do that.

My brake controller for my truck (Tekonsha P3) is good for both types of systems, so I don't need to upgrade that.

What's your thoughts guys? I'm a newb when it comes to trailer brakes, so I can use all the insight I can get!

Thanks

 

[quickfarms]

Why do you want to change the brakes?

 

[JPShooter]

I'm not going to change the system out at this time, however, I do prefer electrically actuated trailer brakes over a surge brake system.

 

[quickfarms]

The surge brakes are great when they work correctly. They are the preferred system for rental yards. Most all of the issues are from lack of maintenance.

I have had nothing but bad luck with electric brakes. Electric brakes are popular because they are cheap.

My preferred braking system is air. But you need a bigger vehicle.

 

[RagnarD]

What is your tow vehicle? Are brakes requires in your state?

IMO, the 101A2/A3 surge brakes are not practical because they are not the "free backing" and also result in a jerky ride. I would not mess with electric over hydraulic. Some people have been doing a hub and/or backing plate swap on the 1101/1102 series to covert to electric brakes. Not sure if the same parts would work on the A2/A3 but it may be worth a try.

 

[JPShooter]

What is your tow vehicle? Are brakes requires in your state?

2008 Tundra with factory tow package and Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller (for my other trailers with electric braking systems). Have no idea on the legal requirement, not that it matters as I will have brakes.

IMO, the 101A2/A3 surge brakes are not practical because they are not the "free backing" and also result in a jerky ride. I would not mess with electric over hydraulic. Some people have been doing a hub and/or backing plate swap on the 1101/1102 series to covert to electric brakes. Not sure if the same parts would work on the A2/A3 but it may be worth a try.

I have no knowledge of how the 101A2/3 are configured or the relevance to the M1101. I've seen a thread here where an individual did a hub swap to straight electric on his M1101, but I have no idea as to why he chose that vs. electric over hydraulic or if he even knows of the option at all.

You state that you would not mess with electric over hydraulic but give no reason. Is this opinion based on experience?

I am finding little info on this option so it's hard to make an educated decision. I guess I'll call the folks at eTrailer and see what they have to say on the matter since it's through them that I will purchase whatever I do in the future.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[sgthawk]

I went with all electric because backing up underload with Hydraulic brakes will engage the brakes. I do know the M101 trailers had a pin hole that could be locked with a pin to keep the brakes from engaging when backing up. For my project I ended up using 12in electric breaks with the hand brake option and reused the original drums. The second reason is because I am going to extend the trailer toung and convert to a max coupler.

 

[paranoid56]

The surge brakes are great when they work correctly. They are the preferred system for rental yards. Most all of the issues are from lack of maintenance.

I have had nothing but bad luck with electric brakes. Electric brakes are popular because they are cheap.

My preferred braking system is air. But you need a bigger vehicle.

the only reason they are popular is that you dont need a brake controller to use the trailer, same goes with uhaul trailers and such. one trailer to rule them all. however, they are far from being better then electric brakes.

 

[maktruk]

however, they are far from being better then electric brakes.

...until that water crossing douses your solenoids.

There's a reason boat trailers don't use electric brakes...

 

[JPShooter]

Talking today with the folks at eTrailer.com I got some answers.

All I would need to convert the M1101 to electric over hydraulic is a 1000 psi Electric Over Hydraulic Actuator and a break away switch (already have battery on board for power).

However, if I were to later wish to go disc, the 1600 psi unit is required, as they are different for drum vs. disk in pressure requirements. And no, you cannot just use a 1600 psi now with drums so that you have it later for disks as the pressure will ruin something (can't recall what I was told) in the drum brake system, they are just not compatible. No biggie, just would have been nice to have the option (not likely I would ever need it nor do it for this trailer).

It seems theres a lot of confusion when the term "electric over hydraulic" is used. I appears that some think surge of a sorts.

Electric over hydraulic seems to me to be the best system in this instance, especially with a trailer that is already setup with a very adequate hydraulic brake system.

You still have the water tolerant hydraulic drum braking system (as used on boat trailers for durability) with the ability to fully control braking via a brake controller from the cab, and no backing issues as with surge systems.

This might be a winter time project, as for now I'm maxed out on trailer expenditures for this season.

 

[quickfarms]

...until that water crossing douses your solenoids.

There's a reason boat trailers don't use electric brakes...

Very true.

I have friends that have had water issues with them on a paved road during a downpour. It sucks to be on the side of the road because the required breakaway controller short circuited and applied the brakes.

Even out here in the west we do water crossings. On one afternoon trip we did 26 water crossings.

Why would you want to reduce the fording capability on an off-road trailer to the bottom of the drums is beyond me.

 

[quickfarms]

I went with all electric because backing up underload with Hydraulic breaks will engage the breaks. I do know the M101 trailers had a pin hole that could be locked with a pin to keep the breaks from engaging when backing up. For my project I ended up using 12in electric breaks with the hand break option and reused the original drums. The second reason is because I am going to extend the trailer toung and convert to a max coupler.

I have never had that happen I all the years I have been using surge brake trailers. I also have never needed the lockout pin. I regularly back loaded trailers into all sorts of spots off-road with out having the breaks apply.

If you are having issues I would check the shock that is in the actuator.

One person mentioned that surge brakes resulted in a jerky ride. This is usually an indication of either a mechanical problem or an inexperienced driver.

On a surplus trailer you should service the trailer. Most people will pack the wheel bearings, check the brakes, fill the master cylinder and bleed them. Most people forget to service the actuator. This includes cleaning all the sand out of it, checking for damaged parts and making shore the shock is not blown.

There will always be some slop and clunking with the pintle hitch and Lunette eye but steady driving will minimize this.

The other issue is the driver needs to be steady and consistent.

BTW they are brakes not breaks.

 

[JPShooter]

I had surge brakes on my boat trailer (22' bow rider, probably about 5000+ lbs gross) and without locking out the surge mechanism with the manufacturer provided blocking device there was no way that I could back the rig up an incline.

There is nothing in the TM (Technical Manual) for the M1101 regarding locking out the surge brake for the purpose of backing, so I will just have to find out how hard it is to live with once I get the rig finished and actually start using it.

Even if you can lock it out, it's a pain to have to do just to back up an incline if need be.

Towing my boat with surge brakes compared to my two other trailers with electric brakes (7K dump trailer and 10K car carrier) are very different experiences. The electric brakes are just so much smoother