M416 hub info

[Shakey]

I'm working with a trailer parts supplier to exhaust every part available in an attempt to convert my M416 stock hubs to new hubs with a 5x4.5 bolt pattern. The search here shows no one, apparently, has ever accomplished (or even tried?) this. Everyone, it seems, just runs spacers or buys a new axle.

Does anyone know the ID and OD of both the inner bearing and outer bearing? I'm at work, and can't take the measurements, but I assume there is a military manual out there with this info.


If the parts aren't available, I'll have the stock hubs redrilled, which oddly it looks like no one here has ever done either.

 

[j_rhamilton]

ETrailer.com has the 5x4.5 hubs you need. Just call them and tell them you have a M416 and want to swap your hubs for 5x4.5 hubs. They do this all the time. Should be about $100. http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Hubs_and_Drums-sz-5_on_4~1|2_Inch.aspx

 

[Ted_Z]

The price of a full replacement axle with any bolt pattern you chose is very resonable so most simply replace the axle rather than messing with the hubs. I got my 3500# axle for about $150 shipped to my door.

 

[Errant]

Don't you lose the parking break with a new axle?

 

[Ted_Z]

You can get a new axle set up with a parking brake. See page 2:

http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/6-8k_cat_4-07/10_in._Brakes.pdf

Similar thread

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35852

 

[Errant]

Gotcha. I was referring to the stock parking brake, which many people would like to keep.

 

[Ted_Z]

I understand what you're saying. But what I was trying to get accross is that you can just buy a whole new axle, with electric brakes, with a parking brake, with the bolt pattern you want instead of trying to cobble together parts to swap the bolt pattern on the original 50 year old axle.

 

[womacje]

Shakey,

It depends on which build of the M416 Axle you have, they are seperated by years. If I remember correctly, the early ones will take a swap really easy. The later... which I have, d@mn it, isn't so easy. The bearing OD's should be 1.75" both of them. The ID is something like 1.35". I'd pull my axle apart but, I just put it all back together. Get the Timken number for it and that will get you your numbers.

I'm trying to get to 6x5.5" without spacers, I don't have room under the fenders to fit spacers too wide! I thought about welding and redrilling the hubs, but I will most likely just buy a new Dexter with the park brake function or go the AT independant suspension route.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Shakey]

This place cracks me up. There are multiple threads where people try to get at this answer and some yahoo always just says buy a new axle...

I tore my axle apart today, my research says M416 trailers have 2 different bearing sets depending on year of manufacture. All I can tell you is that mine has the same inner and outer bearing:

Timken LM501349
I think that's 1 5/8" ID; 2 7/8" OD

This suggests mine is an earlier axle, as supposedly the later axles have different inner and out bearings.


Now I'll see if I can find a hub that fits to convert to 5x4.5. I already decided that I can't simply redrill the hubs because the center is too wide to fit my wheels. So it's a new hub or spacers.

 

[Shakey]

ETrailer.com has the 5x4.5 hubs you need. Just call them and tell them you have a M416 and want to swap your hubs for 5x4.5 hubs. They do this all the time. Should be about $100. http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Hubs_and_Drums-sz-5_on_4~1|2_Inch.aspx

You've clearly never done what you're suggesting because that is bad information. The website you link even provides the inner and outer bearings, which in no way match, at least the earlier, M416 axle bearing numbers.

For fun, I even called them. Their answer was "no" they do not sell a hub to swap to 5x4.5. Obviously, they don't "do this all the time."

 

[Shakey]

You can get a new axle set up with a parking brake. See page 2:

http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/6-8k_cat_4-07/10_in._Brakes.pdf

Similar thread

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35852

Have you ever done this before, or are you also sharing bad information?

The forum link you provide says you need to order a narrow axle and run spacers if you want to do what you suggest. This is about as cobbled together as I can think of. But I'm assuming you ordered one, how does it work? Does the manual brake work when the electric brakes are disconnected? Are spacers needed?

Now, if you know that I can order a new axle with a manual parking brake that will fit a 5x4.5 wheel, without spacers, and when disconnected from the electric brakes, please let me know and I'll order it today.

 

[womacje]

Everyone I've talked to about hubs said, that it sounds like an agricultural spindle/bearing, definitely not a trailer, ie Dexter or the only other guy.

Not to beat a dead horse, if the hubs were drilled couldn't the lip be milled down? Or worst case scenario a small spacer to clear the lip?

From all my research going in the same direction you are, the Dexter hand brake will work under cable tension. You have to acquire the cable and your handle but it will work when there is no power to the trailer. If you go thru Dexter's exploded views you'll see how the mechanism works, real simple.

You will have to special order that axle no matter what so you'll be able to get the specific spring perch dims and hub face distance. Don't use thief springs though... They look terrible.

 

[njtaco]

Have you ever done this before, or are you also sharing bad information?

The forum link you provide says you need to order a narrow axle and run spacers if you want to do what you suggest. This is about as cobbled together as I can think of. But I'm assuming you ordered one, how does it work? Does the manual brake work when the electric brakes are disconnected? Are spacers needed?

Now, if you know that I can order a new axle with a manual parking brake that will fit a 5x4.5 wheel, without spacers, and when disconnected from the electric brakes, please let me know and I'll order it today.

OK, I'm hesitant to post here because frankly, your tone is about as unappreciative as I've heard in a while... but here goes:

Regarding the bolt pattern, Dexter sells part number 008-247-005 which is a 10 x 2-1/4 inch hub and drum assembly with a 5x4-1/2 inch lug pattern using 1/2 inch studs to go with the electric trailer brakes referenced above. Yes, it is a cable actuated parking brake. No, it does not come with a cable or handle.

Whether it will fit your particular wheel without spacers depends on the wheel you are using. Generally aluminum wheels on Jeeps (for example) have such a small center hole they don't fit over the hub center/dust cap on the axle's hub. There is no way anyone here can say if yours will fit.

I would suggest you call Dexter at (574) 295-7888 and ask then to verify every detail before ordering, and go to a local stocking dealer with one of your rims to test fit before dropping any money.

my 2c... I do hope it meets with your approval

 

[njtaco]

On another note, there was an ebay seller that claimed to have a hub and bearing arrangement to do what you are looking for. If I have a chance I'll look around for a link. I'm certain it was posted here on expo.

 

[njtaco]

This place cracks me up. There are multiple threads where people try to get at this answer and some yahoo always just says buy a new axle...

That's because we have heard the same request SO many times...the horse is pretty well dead for most of us by now.

The general consensus is to add electric brakes which removes the ability to retain the factory axle. Add to that the idea that many "flip" to a spring-over and it isn't much more work to have a brand new axle with all new components. The Dexter axle with "both" brakes is just icing at that point.

I do hope the hub you are looking for exists, and you are able to use your choice of wheels. Are you matching the rims on the TJ? Or maybe using the original TJ rims?

You seem to enjoy the research/figuring out side of this so I'll only mention this casually...the spacers may actually help center the tire over the centerline of the hub when using some wheels, depending on the offset of the wheel. This stresses the bearings less in the (very) long run. This is more true for rims designed for IFS applications with deep backsets like a Tacoma, as opposed to rims for a Scout, for example.