Manual transmission in a van?

[Mwilliamshs]

I have a Ford 4.9L (300 straight six) and a C6 automatic with 3.08 gears in my van. No issues with the combo at all. Pretty happy with the mileage even.

BUT

I found a great donor van with a 5 speed OD transmission. Factory Ford issue. Same wheelbase, same engine, so driveshafts are correct length. I could swap everything from the bellhousing back, completely bolt-in. Would have to, my gears + OD would suck. The donor should have 3.55s but can't confirm. I'd swap to that ratio either way. The scope of the swap is well within my skillset, tools etc. I'm very comfortable with driving a standard transmission and regardless of what transmission my van has I'm likely to be its only driver, ever.

THUS

I'd gain efficiency. Probably not a lot, but 3 mpg is about what I expect. That's average. Pure highway would probably be more like 5 mpg. I'd gain some novelty, a clutch pedal in a van is rare. I'd lose convenience, can't just put it in D and zone out. I'd lose space. The shifter takes up room in the cabin. I'd gain engine cooling. No more transmission heat in the radiator. I'd gain uh...sweat equity? Knee pain? Wrench time?

SO

What would you do?

 

[villageidiot327]

Do it.

Growing up we had a 80's dodge short wheel base, 225 slant six, four speed van. It was TIGHT.

 

[zuke]

I'd do it for the novelty, and the fact that I just like driving a stick, But I think you're over estimating the mpg gains, especially on the highway, if you're C6 has a lockup torque converter, it will get as good a mileage on the highway as a manual at the same rpm, If your gearing changes with the new setup reduce your rpm at the same speed, then you will see MPG gains..

 

[Bbasso]

If I could do it to my 2001 7.3 I'd be happy.
I say give it a try!

 

[VANMAN]

DO IT! I am finally...after talking about it for a while going to do the same thing...finalizing plans next week when I get home...I have same body style...1990 Diesel...I also found the clutch pedal set up a few years ago at a pick n pull....

I still have Dana 44HD with 3.55 gears...need it out of my garage...direct bolt in....be great with Manual LOL! seriously I will sell it cheap...it's in Reno...want it out of my garage...

 

[VANMAN]

PS...with the manual in all likely hood will changing transfer case...to ORD transfer case...so will also have a BW1356 Transfer case...to get rid of...works fine...why change it? Because....and 4 speed transfer case sounds cool!

 

[Mwilliamshs]

...I think you're over estimating the mpg gains, especially on the highway, if you're C6 has a lockup torque converter, it will get as good a mileage on the highway as a manual at the same rpm, If your gearing changes with the new setup reduce your rpm at the same speed, then you will see MPG gains..

C6 never had lockup torque converter and has the heaviest rotating mass of any automotive automatic. Also has thrust washers where newer models (E4OD, etc) use torrington bearings. I'm not ragging on the trans; I like mine but there are significant shortcomings in the efficiency department. Some have reported 10-20% gains by swapping to low stall, tow master torque converters. Still no lockup, just less slip at cruise.

 

[zuke]

C6 never had lockup torque converter and has the heaviest rotating mass of any automotive automatic. Also has thrust washers where newer models (E4OD, etc) use torrington bearings. I'm not ragging on the trans; I like mine but there are significant shortcomings in the efficiency department. Some have reported 10-20% gains by swapping to low stall, tow master torque converters. Still no lockup, just less slip at cruise.

Not only is lower RPM at cruise a good way to improve MPG, but so is keep the engine in its most efficient range (by having 5 gears at ~50% splits), not to mention not spinning a heavy torque converter and gaining the direct transfer of power via a clutch vs a non-lockup torque converter.

Well, That would settle it for me then! Put in the manual! I'm pretty surprised they didn't put a LU Torque Converter in the late C6's, The Tech was well established by the late 80's

 

[Mwilliamshs]

...I'm pretty surprised they didn't put a LU Torque Converter in the late C6's, The Tech was well established by the late 80's

Well, they kinda did...they invested those resources in the E4OD (1989 introduction). It's the evolutionary successor to the C6. Added OD, TCC, electronic controls, bearings in place of bushings, etc.

Same trick GM turned with the TH400, they updated it with OD, TCC, etc and renamed it the 4L80E.

 

[TeleSteve]

Naterry put a ZF6 behind a 7.3 in a 96 econoline van. His build thread could probably give some insight as to how he made it work.
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/112027-The-Ute-II-E350-RB-7-3-ZF6

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Naterry put a ZF6 behind a 7.3 in a 96 econoline van. His build thread could probably give some insight as to how he made it work.
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/112027-The-Ute-II-E350-RB-7-3-ZF6

Yeah I've read through there before. Nice van. Different generation, different engine, different transmission, different pedal assembly, different...well...everything. But a nice van nonetheless.

 

[naterry]

Yeah I'd do it.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

The donor that I started this thread about was garbage. The body was rusted out junk but even worse was the broken transmission, cut and welded pedals, broken steering column... basically all the parts I wanted were trash. It was very tough driving the 8 hours home from that without kicking someone's @$$.

Fast forward about a year and a half and I bought a different 5 speed donor van.

This one is also a 4-wheeled dumpster but all the important parts are good. Once again, the junker has the same engine, wheelbase, and rear axle as my van so it's an ideal donor. Drove it about 4 hours home and I'm SOLD on its 3.55s and M5OD. This thing is STRONG. The trip home included some of the biggest hills in Arkansas and I couldn't believe how this can was flying up them.

I'll be making the swap in a few weeks but I'll do some comparative testing before then. Basically getting some baselines to retest post-swap so I can document what I really gain from all this work.

I'll also test with my existing 3.08s before swapping axles.

 

[wanderer-rrorc]

You cannot beat a 4.9 inline 6....

And...there are performance mods....

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Christian P.]

When I was in University our snowboarding van was a black short wheel base Chevy C10 with a 6 cyl and 3 speed on the floor. The shifting pattern was reversed and eventually someone messed up between reverse and second and we ended up with only 1st and 3rd...or something along these lines....there were a lot of partying happening in that van....