MB U1300L a good base to build on?

[boroburner]

Hello all! Im Ben Evers, from Canada EH! What a great forum you have here!

Ive been researching the RV lifestyle for about a yr and ahalf now and think its something id really enjoy/would suit my lifestyle. Ive been looking at Rv's for quite some time but came to the conclusion that they were more or less crap.... Then i discovered Expo Vehicles!! :Wow1: So here i am... still thinking of selling it all and running away(ok... driving really).

I have an option to buy a U1300L 20,000KM X-military rig from germany (I think it has the overdrive too!) and was wondering if it would be a suitable base for a full time expo rig? I know its possible(ive seen the pics!). Im wondering about the restrictions/problems i may plan to encounter with such a chasis/build.

Here are a few of my requirements
-serviceability and availability of parts(the more i look at this aspect the more i like the mog)

-sleeping area, kitchen and washroom facilitys including shower

-lots of electrical power!! I am a glass artist and would like to have a trailer to pull behind with a self supporting glass shop in it. This would require 120/240V power and 40 amps min. Ive been thinking a PTO gen for the mog may be able to do this??(any downside to this idea?) I would also like solar and maybe wind for the times im not working.

-Motorbike for getting around on 400CC

-The ability to pull a trailer(preferably with off road capabilitys as well) with aprox 3-4000lbs of glass and tools

-lots of storage, lots of fuel and lots of water would also be a big +

Im sure theres plenty of other things id love to bring/have but these are my bare essentials if i am to seriously consider this.
So... What do you think? Is the U1300L for me? Or should i look at something a little larger?

thanks in advance!
B

 

[Chas Stricker]

Sounds like fun. I think the limiting factors for the 1300L would be size of camping space and the slow speed at which they like to travel. Towing is no problem, but, the speed does go down. Keep the weight down on the chassis. Good luck,
Chas

 

[boroburner]

Thanks chas
Im thinking it could be very fun yes!! And im sure maddenig to the point to exaustion as well(im not going to think about that right now..) This project still in the research stage and I think it will be for some time to come too.

By limitation do you mean dimentions of living quarters? or weight?
Do you happen to know the aprox. weight/sf of the average well constructed expo camper(dry)?? Tortion free mount, well constructed steel subframe, lock boxes, bathroom, kitchen, a few windows, etc?

I dont feel like i need a tonne of room for myself. I am a man of few needs. But i do like creature comforts, like my own washroom And a full size bed would be great Im 6'6".

I love the idea of building my own rig but the idea of having to weigh everything to the gram(altho i would anyways) and fight with DOT to register it because i didnt buy a slightly lager vehicle sounds horrible. GVW is my biggest concern.

 

[mhiscox]

Good luck with your project. There are certainly many U1300 campers, most commonly U1300Ls, the long wheelbase version for obvious reasons. The two biggest drawbacks of this truck for the purpose are the slow cruising speed (figure 55 mph for most variants) and the height and width of the truck when going on unimproved roads.

The maximum GVWR of a 1300L is 16,500 pounds, so weight should not be a problem unless you go crazy. Figure that 5,000 pounds should cover the cabin and the contents without resorting to esoteric materials in the construction. (Still, it's always worth making a list of all the weights and verifying all is well.)

BTW, there are good 1300 campers available for purchase at prices not far from what it would cost to build one yourself if you value your time for much. It's also worth just looking at the For Sale campers to see how they are done to give you ideas. Here are two examples for sale; there are others:

http://www.ki7xh.com/camper.htm

http://www.expedition-imports.com/category/vehicle_inventory.category_name.1_u1300l_expedition_camper/

Also, the cabin on my 416 camper is of similar size to what you'd put on a 1300, and there are lots of pictures with captions of it at:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mhiscox01/CamperMogAssortment#

Good luck,

Mike

 

[boroburner]

Hi Mike! Thanks for the links!

Ive seen photos of your rig in my research already, a very nice unit! Im new to Mogs, and theyre kind of confusing... a 416 has a longer wheelbase than a 1300 does it not? room for the extended cab in your images?

Ive seen the build website for Bundeswehr in my research already as well. bookmarked it too! Its a resource im sure I will call upon. I have been toying with the idea of buying somone elses expo-mog(its almost looks cheaper) but i do really like the idea of building it myself. Im thinking.... if i build it, i can repair it. Ive recently gone thru a nightmare home reno in which improper and cost cutting measures were used by the original builder and would hate to inherit the same again. However.... Unlike my house, it does seem that most of these vehicles are put together with some sort of coherent thought process. So it is still very much a consideration.

Going fast isnt really a concern, Im not in a rush, getting there in one piece is of far more importance to me. In canada most roads have a speed limit of 90K anyways so aside from the trans canada, i think id be OK @ 55. Once outside of canada i hope Id be spending as much time on minor roads as possible. No point in having a mog if your not going to use it.... At least slightly.

 

[Tennmogger]

Hi Ben, and welcome,

I'm a fan of the U-1300L with camper.

A PTO generator works fine, if you need that much power. I use a 10kW PTO generator (on another Unimog) for emergency use and it works fine, but, consider the fuel usage of a big engine like an OM-352 or OM-366 (both found in U-1300's) running at speed to get that generator on frequency. Plan on several gallons of fuel per hour, and that adds up. Also, a Diesel engine does not like to run with low load for many hours. A smaller generator, Diesel powered, rated at near the load you require, would be much more efficient and won't wear out your truck engine.

You might not find a U-1300 with a PTO, either. If the truck has an overdrive then it won't have a PTO.

Few military U-1300's have overdrive or fast axle ratios. However, many of the ex-fire service U-1300's do have fast ratios (like 5.3:1), and a Claas overdrive can be added (cost approaching $10k now, if you can find one). In addition, the fire service trucks often have a torsion isolating bed needed for a cabin build. Don't want that box twisting on the road.

Towing a reasonable load is certainly doable, but expect slower speeds. I pull an M-105A2 trailer with my U-1300 and know it's there, and I don't put "3-4000 lbs" in it.

The engines in these trucks are not overly powerful, just sufficient, and efficient. As the load goes up, the speed goes down, and gear shifting is needed.

Another point about the SBU series of Mogs: These were the last of the mechanically injected engines with no computers or electronics. To me, that's a huge selling point.

Bob

 

[mhiscox]

A 416 has a longer wheelbase than a 1300 does it not? room for the extended cab in your images?

There are varying wheelbases on both 416s and 1300s, plus my 416 was built of a traction head (basically non-Mercedes from the end of the transmission back) so they could make any reasonable wheelbase they wanted. One big difference is whether the truck is a DoKa (double cab); basically you can have more cab or more cabin, by about 4 feet.

Going fast isnt really a concern, Im not in a rush, getting there in one piece is of far more importance to me. In canada most roads have a speed limit of 90K anyways so aside from the trans canada, i think id be OK @ 55.

The issue, as I suspect you understand, is not the extent to which power is related to top speed as much as it relates to grade handling. Camper Mog's somewhat tweaked 110 hp engine provided about the same cruise speed as many 170 hp 1300s, but when the grades came, Camper Mog was more affected. Don't misunderstand me; you always make it up the hills, but with the lower horsepower, you quite understandably make it up slower.

It's also worth noting that turbocharged engines will keep their power at altitude better than normally-aspirated ones. Figure about a 3% horsepower drop per 1000 feet above sea level.

Good luck.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I know there is a guy over on benzworld.com (in the unimog forum) that is trying to sell a yellow 416 that is exactly like Mike's. To warn you, however, this guy's is a flying rust bucket, he will tell you that himself, so it would be a complete rebuild, but if you wanted a project...

If you are seriously interested in one of these things you REALLY need to find a way to get to the "North Western Mog Fest" on the 19th of this month. The reason is that they are not at all what you think they are, until you have ridden in one, and driven one. I have always wanted a mog, but spending time in one for a weekend convinced me that I am not going to pursue one until I retire, whereas I had planned to get one in the next two years. Glad that I spent time in them before buying and then realizing I did not want it yet!

Just a thought. There are a lot of other vehicles out there that can do the trips and carry the weight. Have you looked at the "Eco-Roamer" at all? Big build thread on here, but the guy is set up to sell you one if you would be interested. There are other vehicle platforms that are smaller, but a lot, than the mog and might also do you very nicely.

All I am saying is that you should explore your options. The Mog is only going to out do the 2wd overland vehicles on about five percent of the roads, and that really is not a lot. If you are thinking about going all out through Africa and staying off of the main roads while traveling through monsoon season, well then you will need a Mog or the like, otherwise there are a lot of other options out there.

Would love to see you build whatever you end up with though! Send photos... haha

Brian

 

[threepiece188]

I know there is a guy over on benzworld.com (in the unimog forum) that is trying to sell a yellow 416 that is exactly like Mike's. To warn you, however, this guy's is a flying rust bucket, he will tell you that himself, so it would be a complete rebuild, but if you wanted a project...

If you are seriously interested in one of these things you REALLY need to find a way to get to the "North Western Mog Fest" on the 19th of this month. The reason is that they are not at all what you think they are, until you have ridden in one, and driven one. I have always wanted a mog, but spending time in one for a weekend convinced me that I am not going to pursue one until I retire, whereas I had planned to get one in the next two years. Glad that I spent time in them before buying and then realizing I did not want it yet!

Just a thought. There are a lot of other vehicles out there that can do the trips and carry the weight. Have you looked at the "Eco-Roamer" at all? Big build thread on here, but the guy is set up to sell you one if you would be interested. There are other vehicle platforms that are smaller, but a lot, than the mog and might also do you very nicely.

All I am saying is that you should explore your options. The Mog is only going to out do the 2wd overland vehicles on about five percent of the roads, and that really is not a lot. If you are thinking about going all out through Africa and staying off of the main roads while traveling through monsoon season, well then you will need a Mog or the like, otherwise there are a lot of other options out there.

Would love to see you build whatever you end up with though! Send photos... haha

Brian

Can you please elaborate a bit as to why you don't want a Mog at this time? I too have been considering a Mog and also have not retired yet. I would like to know your thoughts on this.
Dan

 

[charlieaarons]

In general, a Mog is much more reasonable for international travel than staying in N. America. Due to top speed limitations (even if you have an OD, you won't want to go over 95-100kph) and parts and service availability.
Vehicles built on medium duty "domestic" chassis fit N. american requirements well but become increasingly hard to find parts and service for as you get out of N. America, and then the W. Hemisphere altogether.
And do consider that a U1300, even if it has only 20000km, has been "sitting around" for years and will require work sometimes.

Charlie

 

[mhiscox]

Can you please elaborate a bit as to why you don't want a Mog at this time? I too have been considering a Mog and also have not retired yet. I would like to know your thoughts on this.
Dan

Being a long-time Mog owner, and knowing dozens of people who have owned others, I propose that the crux of the matter in North America is the balance between transportation and hobby. Take a F550 from LA to NYC, and no one will think anything of it. Use a older Mog for that same trip, and you will be revered as an intrepid adventurer. There is an element of uncertainty with an older Mog that you do not have with a modern vehicle and you get a sense of accomplishment at making the trip. Any trip, for that matter, as taking the family to the McDonald's 15 miles down the road becomes an outing in a Mog.

I believe my view is particularly true for the gas-powered 404s, which were never designed for sustained high-speed running and the diesel 416s, most all of which are better than thirty-years old. There's a little more "transportation" in using one of the newer SBUs, though they're almost all better than twenty years old. (The "new" U500s are modern computer-controlled heavier trucks best considered a special case.)

Most Mogs are underpowered for their weight, noisy, cramped for many people and have no air conditioning. Does that mean you shouldn't want one? Of course not. People hike and get blisters, or ride in kayaks and get wet. Some inconvenience is an expected part of many hobbies. I have had many excellent adventures owning my Mog camper and would not have wanted to miss the experience. And for an expedition with a slower pace and the substantial load carrying across less-improved surfaces, they are tough to beat.

All in all, I never try to talk people out of owning an older Unimog, but I do try to make them think about whether their expectations are in line with how the trucks work in common North American situations.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Can you please elaborate a bit as to why you don't want a Mog at this time? I too have been considering a Mog and also have not retired yet. I would like to know your thoughts on this.
Dan

I think that Charlie and Mike sum it up pretty well.

I love the 404, it is a great hobbiest vehicle, but you do not want to take it past the citly limits unless it is on a trailer behind a big Ford. I really like the 416, super fun truck, and it has some get up and go. It can make it down the road pretty well. I really love the SBU, and I dream about the U500, and the u141. Now, the 404 can be had for a relatively good price all things considered, the 416 will take a fairly serious bite out of your budget, and SBU costs as much as a brand new ML and therefore, obviously, ONE HECK of a hobby. The U500, well, you could have a fleet of ML's for that price. Some people are asking as high as $150,000.oo for those things. As for the 406, it has a shorter wheel base than my CJ7, and the U141, very cool, hard to find, hard to get parts, still around 30K for them.

In an ideal world, yes I would get one, but as it is, I need the money for my family.

Further I do not like to wrench on vehicles, which makes a mog significantly more expensive to maintain.

I think the biggest thing you need to know, outside of what Charlie and Mike mentioned, is that getting a Mog is a big deal. There is no way to really dabble in mogs IMHO. You either jump right in over your head, or not at all. It IS a hobby, not just a vehicle, you will be shocked if you think it is like going out and picking up a toyota, and expecting to drive it with nothing more than an oil change IF you happen to remember, every 4-5000 miles.


SO with luck, maybe in a couple decades I can get one. I'll be in my fifties. retired and have more time to do the wrenching and such.


OK, that was long-winded...

That being said, I think that the Mog is a perfect small vehicle base for an overlander. When you look at the campers on the backs of Mogs, you must be aware, that is a very small place to live for the next X period of time.

 

[63tlf8]

I think that Charlie and Mike sum it up pretty well.

I love the 404, it is a great hobbiest vehicle, but you do not want to take it past the citly limits unless it is on a trailer behind a big Ford. I really like the 416, super fun truck, and it has some get up and go....... Now, the 404 can be had for a relatively good price all things considered, the 416 will take a fairly serious bite out of your budget, and SBU costs as much as a brand new ML and therefore, obviously, ONE HECK of a hobby. ........... There is no way to really dabble in mogs IMHO. You either jump right in over your head, or not at all. It IS a hobby, not just a vehicle, you will be shocked if you think it is like going out and picking up a toyota, and expecting to drive it with nothing more than an oil change IF you happen to remember, every 4-5000 miles.
......
That being said, I think that the Mog is a perfect small vehicle base for an overlander. When you look at the campers on the backs of Mogs, you must be aware, that is a very small place to live for the next X period of time.

What Mike and Charlie said plus the above is good advice for many / most, but it isn't cast in stone. My take is that the individual determines what is right for them with due consideration for their circumstances and intentions. I and some friends have 404 campers, one has owned his for 30 years. We happen to be older, used to working with the earlier style industrial type machinery and not obsessed with getting there yesterday. Also our chosen routes involve severe weight restrictions and a preference for a smaller footprint. One of these friends is currently away and will cover some 4 - 5,000 Km of essentially dirt or off-road in his 404 during this trip so it far so along with the worlds previous 404 adventures, it far exceeds the city limits scenario.

Living space depends on what you think is normal. One part of the world seems to exist very well in 3 - 3.5 Mtr cabins and is happy to be warm and dry and the other half need 4-5 Mtr cabs with hot and cold running water and dancing girls. A good 2 x 3 Mtr Expedition style cabin is sheer luxury after canvas and a 3 month trip is pretty well normal. I'd have a 1300 if weight wasn't an issue so I'm not a 404 or nothing man.

All that said, any older MOG is a lifestyle choice so if you are less than middle aged and challenged by spanners then it won't be a happy relationship. This forum tells you much. Some are here for many years as happy MOG owners and some pass through very quickly trailing a for sale sign acknowledging it wasn't for them.

So, if a MOG (model of your choice) is for you then you will be a happy owner, if its a status symbol or bling then it could be a very expensive experience. Only you can tell.

Cheers

Tony

 

[charlieaarons]

. One part of the world seems to exist very well in 3 - 3.5 Mtr cabins and is happy to be warm and dry and the other half need 4-5 Mtr cabs with hot and cold running water and dancing girls.

I trust that's just a metaphor, my "dancing girl" is 56yo and I've been married to her for 30 yrs. She does require hot and cold running water and a flush toilet, thus the 4.8m camper. But at least she puts up with the Mog part. There's also room for a lot of spanners and spare parts and a Star Diagnostic computer.

Charlie

 

[boroburner]

Thank you all for the advice so far.

The more im reserching Unimogs/expo campers the more im thinking i would like to get into one sometime in the future, distant or not is yet to be determined. The reason for the Unimog choice is that i am definetly interested in international travel and parts avalibility when travelling with this kind of rig seems to be a point that keeps comming up as i read peoples posts.
To date i have driven thru USA, Canada(many times), baja (3 times), crossed; ireland, UK, Germany, and am planning to visit Germany, France, Spain, and Italy this winter.... I regularly 4x4 to remote hotsprings in BC and would love to take my home and workshop with me on all these adventures.

Most of my travels have been in nothing bigger than a ford 1 tonne van and as small a vehicle as a volkswagan rabbit (germany :smiley_drive: )and im no stranger to a good ol tent and sleeping bag so anything would be a major step up, altho i do have to say i have a fondness for; dancing women, hot water and flush toilets...

Admitidly my mechanical skills would need a major overhaul, im not so good with vehicles, but i seem to be able to visualise and build most anything from scratch, ive got a good handle on 120/240 electrical, welding and machining but have never gotten down and dirty with a car or truck, ahhh time. I think tho with a book, a little help here and there from friends, this forum and a wrench i could figure out an older model. This is part of my desire to build my own form scratch.

As for space and power, for my glass shop to be self sufficent i would need to run; 1 kiln(20amps/240V), oxygen generator (5 amps/120V), and the killer... one rotary screw compressor (60 amps/240V). Major power requirements to be on the road with. For work space i do not need much, maybe 8'x8'. The compressor/oxy generator/kiln setup weighs in at a good ol 2000Lbs, then throw in another 700-1000 pounds of random tools, gas and stuff. This would be over and above a healthy stock of spare parts for the camper. I think i could cram the glass shop into a 18-20 foot trailer. Weight/power/GVRW is going to be my major concern i think.

Thanks again for all the input and advice. I hope this expalins a bit of who i am and my requirments.