So, it all began several years ago, when my neighbor took his 2006 Chrysler 300 to a local dealership with a mysterious stalling problem. At the time, I was rolling in a 2006 Charger, and I had the not-at-all mysterious "don't fill the gas tank or it stalls" problem. After replacing his tank, they couldn't figure out his problem. They kept that car for over 9 months, declaring it "fixed" several times. It only made it clear of the dealer parking lot on one of those occasions, before stalling on the road in front of the dealership. Eventually, they decided that the best course of action was to offer him a discount on a used Chevy they had taken in trade. Yes, the Chrysler dealer couldn't fix the car, so they gave up and let him trade it in for a Chevy. I laughed my ******** off for quite some time, thinking that he was being taken for a ride because he really isn't a car guy! Those of you with an eye for foreshadowing are laughing at me right now... and you're right.
Fast forward a couple of years, and I've traded the charger for a JKUR. On the Niagara Rim Trail back in mid October, I suffered a mysterious loss of all brake pedal that allowed me to roll merrily backwards down a hill and into a pile of rocks and trees. After that, I seemed to have brakes again, including the normal very hard pedal that accompanies hill descent control use. I thought maybe I was an idiot, and that I had hit the wrong pedal or otherwise engaged in "loose nut behind the wheel" behavior... until we hit the pavement again.
As we cruised down the mountain on day 2, I quickly realized that I had little to no brake pressure, requiring 3-5 pumps to "maybe" stop. At other times, one push of the pedal would do it with no issue. The randomness was a little scary. Anyway, I had 200 miles give or take to get home, and it isn't the first vehicle I've had with no brakes, so I took it back. After a long highway run, everything seemed functional, but not fantastic. That day, I found a leaking differential, where I peeled back a cover on a rock. It took a week of after work evenings to get the diff cover repaired, and then driving the Jeep immediately revealed the bad brakes again. I had completely inspected the underside and found no leaks, no bubbled rubber, and no issues of any kind.
I have 1500 miles left on the warranty, and was losing no fluid, plus the working hill descent control seemed to indicate that the ABS system was working. The only other thing I could figure on was a bad master cylinder. Rock Auto gets about $140 for a master cylinder, and I could change it in a couple of hours... but I have that warranty... can you hear the ominous music in the background yet?
So there is a dealership about 2 miles from my office, owned by a different guy than the one my neighbor used, and I set up for a co-worker to pick me up. On the morning of 10/25 I dropped the Jeep off with a description of all of my troubleshooting and a statement that I thought the master cylinder might be bad. I specifically stated that I would not accept merely bleeding the brakes and sending me off to stumble through the next 1000 or so miles hiding the real problem until my warranty ran out.
At the end of the first day, they called me and left a message confirming... get ready for it... my brakes didn't work! The confirmed that my brakes were bad, the linings looked good, they weren't leaking, and that the technician "observed a lift kit" and that "installing the new brake lines" meant they needed bleeding. Apparently the technician wasn't sharp enough to "observe original parts, with brake drop brackets" and figure out that the brake lines had never been disconnected. They demanded $150 to bleed the brakes before they would continue.
On day 2, After a lot of arguing, I relented and authorized the work, telling them that I had no intention of paying when this would lead inevitably to a new master cylinder. They bled the brakes and left me a message that there was some air in the rear, and amazingly... my brakes were still bad! On day 3 they opened a STAR ticket with Fiat Chrysler to "get permission" to change a master cylinder. 4 days later, they "got permission" and then had to order a cylinder. The next day it arrived, and was installed.
To my surprise at this point, the problem was not fixed. The brakes were "better" but still not right and still "random". I was scheduled to join in one of the Death Valley runs from this site, and had to cancel! I had planned a 4-day weekend from work, and decided just to work anyway. Lots of angry emoticons go here!
Back to FCA and another STAR ticket. On day 9, they were told that "sometimes changing the front left caliper fixes pressure problems" I cannot figure out why that would have anything to do with brake pressure, but... they ordered a caliper. 2 days later that was delivered, and the next week it was installed. I am now up to 14 days, and surprise... randomly changing a caliper didn't fix the problem. Yippee! Another STAR ticket. More than a week went by while they waited for a response from "STAR". All the while the service writer was claiming that "A Master Technician" and "Engineers from STAR" are "collaborating" to fix my Jeep. I happen to have gone to engineering school with quite a few guys that ended up in the auto industry, and those statements scare the heck out of me.
Somewhere along the way I pointed out that my brakes have always been sort of crappy, and I just thought that was how Jeeps were. The service writer said they sent the technician to drive another 2014 JKUR at another dealership and it was clear that my brakes were much worse!
On day 20 or 21 the service writer stopped returning my calls.
On day 22 he suggested that I file a complaint with Jeep Customer Care because my parts were on "backorder" as they tried to replace another master cylinder, and that might be what it took to move me up the priority chain.
On day 23 I did file that complaint. I wasn't cruel, but I did point out that I could have replaced an entire brake system in an afternoon.
Today was day 25, and he called and said that they were given permission to change the ABS control module, but it has to be ordered and might be in by Tuesday. I asked if they had checked the vacuum booster, and was told that he has no way of knowing what troubleshooting was done, but "Master Technicians" and "Engineers" are still "collaborating" on it.
My wife is getting tired of the grumpiness and moping around, and she is threatening to call this guy and raise trouble. I don't have anything personal against him, and wouldn't really wish that on anyone, but I'm starting to think about unleashing the war dogs...
So anyway... this is mostly about me having a cathartic moment and dumping my issues on strangers , but I am open to advice or commiseration.
Here is what I've learned:
1) I've been right to avoid dealerships like the plague, these people are idiots.
2) Don't waste money on extended warranties, these people are idiots.
3) Only go to large dealerships that stock parts, the rest are idiots.
4) These people are idiots.
5) Even though you could replace an entire brake system in an afternoon, these people are idiots.
6) Nobody gives a rip about customers, these people are idiots.
7) Nobody cares about your own stuff but you, especially the idiots.
8) Their process needs some serious adjustment... because... these people are idiots.
I wish I had just bought parts and invested a Saturday afternoon.
Right now, I'll be surprised if I get my Jeep back in less than 35 days.
These people are idiots.
Fast forward a couple of years, and I've traded the charger for a JKUR. On the Niagara Rim Trail back in mid October, I suffered a mysterious loss of all brake pedal that allowed me to roll merrily backwards down a hill and into a pile of rocks and trees. After that, I seemed to have brakes again, including the normal very hard pedal that accompanies hill descent control use. I thought maybe I was an idiot, and that I had hit the wrong pedal or otherwise engaged in "loose nut behind the wheel" behavior... until we hit the pavement again.
As we cruised down the mountain on day 2, I quickly realized that I had little to no brake pressure, requiring 3-5 pumps to "maybe" stop. At other times, one push of the pedal would do it with no issue. The randomness was a little scary. Anyway, I had 200 miles give or take to get home, and it isn't the first vehicle I've had with no brakes, so I took it back. After a long highway run, everything seemed functional, but not fantastic. That day, I found a leaking differential, where I peeled back a cover on a rock. It took a week of after work evenings to get the diff cover repaired, and then driving the Jeep immediately revealed the bad brakes again. I had completely inspected the underside and found no leaks, no bubbled rubber, and no issues of any kind.
I have 1500 miles left on the warranty, and was losing no fluid, plus the working hill descent control seemed to indicate that the ABS system was working. The only other thing I could figure on was a bad master cylinder. Rock Auto gets about $140 for a master cylinder, and I could change it in a couple of hours... but I have that warranty... can you hear the ominous music in the background yet?
So there is a dealership about 2 miles from my office, owned by a different guy than the one my neighbor used, and I set up for a co-worker to pick me up. On the morning of 10/25 I dropped the Jeep off with a description of all of my troubleshooting and a statement that I thought the master cylinder might be bad. I specifically stated that I would not accept merely bleeding the brakes and sending me off to stumble through the next 1000 or so miles hiding the real problem until my warranty ran out.
At the end of the first day, they called me and left a message confirming... get ready for it... my brakes didn't work! The confirmed that my brakes were bad, the linings looked good, they weren't leaking, and that the technician "observed a lift kit" and that "installing the new brake lines" meant they needed bleeding. Apparently the technician wasn't sharp enough to "observe original parts, with brake drop brackets" and figure out that the brake lines had never been disconnected. They demanded $150 to bleed the brakes before they would continue.
On day 2, After a lot of arguing, I relented and authorized the work, telling them that I had no intention of paying when this would lead inevitably to a new master cylinder. They bled the brakes and left me a message that there was some air in the rear, and amazingly... my brakes were still bad! On day 3 they opened a STAR ticket with Fiat Chrysler to "get permission" to change a master cylinder. 4 days later, they "got permission" and then had to order a cylinder. The next day it arrived, and was installed.
To my surprise at this point, the problem was not fixed. The brakes were "better" but still not right and still "random". I was scheduled to join in one of the Death Valley runs from this site, and had to cancel! I had planned a 4-day weekend from work, and decided just to work anyway. Lots of angry emoticons go here!
Back to FCA and another STAR ticket. On day 9, they were told that "sometimes changing the front left caliper fixes pressure problems" I cannot figure out why that would have anything to do with brake pressure, but... they ordered a caliper. 2 days later that was delivered, and the next week it was installed. I am now up to 14 days, and surprise... randomly changing a caliper didn't fix the problem. Yippee! Another STAR ticket. More than a week went by while they waited for a response from "STAR". All the while the service writer was claiming that "A Master Technician" and "Engineers from STAR" are "collaborating" to fix my Jeep. I happen to have gone to engineering school with quite a few guys that ended up in the auto industry, and those statements scare the heck out of me.
Somewhere along the way I pointed out that my brakes have always been sort of crappy, and I just thought that was how Jeeps were. The service writer said they sent the technician to drive another 2014 JKUR at another dealership and it was clear that my brakes were much worse!
On day 20 or 21 the service writer stopped returning my calls.
On day 22 he suggested that I file a complaint with Jeep Customer Care because my parts were on "backorder" as they tried to replace another master cylinder, and that might be what it took to move me up the priority chain.
On day 23 I did file that complaint. I wasn't cruel, but I did point out that I could have replaced an entire brake system in an afternoon.
Today was day 25, and he called and said that they were given permission to change the ABS control module, but it has to be ordered and might be in by Tuesday. I asked if they had checked the vacuum booster, and was told that he has no way of knowing what troubleshooting was done, but "Master Technicians" and "Engineers" are still "collaborating" on it.
My wife is getting tired of the grumpiness and moping around, and she is threatening to call this guy and raise trouble. I don't have anything personal against him, and wouldn't really wish that on anyone, but I'm starting to think about unleashing the war dogs...
So anyway... this is mostly about me having a cathartic moment and dumping my issues on strangers , but I am open to advice or commiseration.
Here is what I've learned:
1) I've been right to avoid dealerships like the plague, these people are idiots.
2) Don't waste money on extended warranties, these people are idiots.
3) Only go to large dealerships that stock parts, the rest are idiots.
4) These people are idiots.
5) Even though you could replace an entire brake system in an afternoon, these people are idiots.
6) Nobody gives a rip about customers, these people are idiots.
7) Nobody cares about your own stuff but you, especially the idiots.
8) Their process needs some serious adjustment... because... these people are idiots.
I wish I had just bought parts and invested a Saturday afternoon.
Right now, I'll be surprised if I get my Jeep back in less than 35 days.
These people are idiots.
About a month ago I couldn't get the rear locker to disengage on my Rubicon of my 14 JKRU. I just knew the dealer would find a reason not to warranty it but two phone calls and a day later I had my Jeep back. Everything works fine and they were a pleasure to deal with.
