Need advice & feedback: LC 100 1-3+ year expedition
- Thread starter dhackney
- Start date
Mike S
Sponsor - AutoHomeUSA
pskhaat said:I have tried obtaining these wheels from this source a while back but this source was unable to get them at that time. Do you know if that's changed?I would be very keen on getting some.
Dan quoted me a price of $118 each for a set a few weeks ago. I believe he orders them from the Toyota Parts Depot. I'd like to have 8 of them, but other priorities come first.
M
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Thanks to everyone for your input. Greatly appreciated. We continue to climb the learning curve.
I agree with your assessment of the timeline and the priorities on getting ourselves educated, ourselves sorted, the rig sorted and the systems sorted prior to blissful departure over distant horizons.
This rush to judgement is an unusual approach for me. My normal approach is to research it to death and be on solid ground before making any decisions. See http://www.hackneys.com/sail/index-sail-boat-shortlist.htm , http://www.hackneys.com/sail/index-sail-TCO-shortlist-comp.htm and http://www.hackneys.com/IP/IPsurveyresults.htm for examples of my typical approach.
Nonetheless, we've set up or lives, finances, real estate, etc. for a departure in this time frame, so we'll keep moving as quickly as we can in that direction.
We're developing a rough plan as we do research in parallel.
We currently see our transportation platform options as:
- our existing bike (upsides: well known and proven; downsides: nightly hotel, all meals in restaurants, picnics, etc.)
- our existing truck (2003 GMC Denali) with a lightweight camper (upsides: own it, know it, extremely maneuverable for its size - Quadrasteer; downsides: way too complex to get service and parts outside the U.S.)
- LC 80 with a tent on top (upsides: very rugged, simple and proven platform, worldwide parts & servcie; downsides: less ride comfort, handling capability & power than the 100)
- LC 100 with a tent on top (upsides: nice ride and amenities, new platform, more power than the 80; downsides: US specific IFS & gas V8, less parts & service capability outside US compared to the 80, IFS may not be as rugged long term nor as 3rd world serviceable as the 80 straight front axle)
- LC 80 or 100 with a trailer (upsides: quick galley & bed, ability to set up base camp and roam/explore with the LC; downsides: we've been on a lot of 3rd world mountain roads and wouldn't want to be up there crossing a pass with a trailer and have to back up)
- VW Westphalia (upsides: older versions known, proven, worldwide parts & service, galley, bed; downsides: dangerously underpowered, 2WD limited, primitive suspension)
- Full size 4WD US chassis van camper conversion (upsides: go anywhere capability, galley, bed, possible wet head/shower; downsides: US chassis may have limited/no parts & service, size, maneuverability)
- EarthRoamer (upsides: engineered & equipped with blue-water-marine grade systems, go anywhere that is not precluded by weight & size chassis capability, galley, bed, wet head/shower; downsides: cost (would need to have insurance on this valuable of an asset), build backlog 12/1 delivery, weight & size limit accessability, "rich, pampered Americans" syndrome inducing, outside US parts & service of Ford 550 chassis & EarthRoamer systems, small company viability/longevity risks, would need to carry the GS on the back to explore the places the EarthRoamer couldn't get to due to size & weight)
We could conceivably add Innovation Campers and Langer & Bock to the list with a modified LC chassis & custom camper. My wife speaks German and we have family & friends there.
We'll probably rent an LC with a top tent somewhere on the planet for a few weeks to check out that platform as a baseline.
I spoke with Christo Slee and he makes a compelling case for the 80 for an overseas expedition.
We are currently pondering our choices and reading as many forum threads as we can as quickly as we can to bone up on the LC 80/100 option.
Prerequisites before we depart:
- wilderness medical training
- off road driving training
- vehicle recovery training
- thoroughly test vehicle and systems
We're going to spend a month or two in language immersion so if we go with a straight LC top tent rig we can get that built while we're doing the language school.
Or we can start on the bike while we wait for something. We know that system very well and feel comfortable on it anywhere in the world. We're tying to stay flexible and let this evolve without making decisions any more rushed than we absolutely have to.
Thanks again for the input and feedback. We continue to learn from every post.
Doug
upcruiser said:
I agree with your assessment of the timeline and the priorities on getting ourselves educated, ourselves sorted, the rig sorted and the systems sorted prior to blissful departure over distant horizons.
This rush to judgement is an unusual approach for me. My normal approach is to research it to death and be on solid ground before making any decisions. See http://www.hackneys.com/sail/index-sail-boat-shortlist.htm , http://www.hackneys.com/sail/index-sail-TCO-shortlist-comp.htm and http://www.hackneys.com/IP/IPsurveyresults.htm for examples of my typical approach.
Nonetheless, we've set up or lives, finances, real estate, etc. for a departure in this time frame, so we'll keep moving as quickly as we can in that direction.
We're developing a rough plan as we do research in parallel.
We currently see our transportation platform options as:
- our existing bike (upsides: well known and proven; downsides: nightly hotel, all meals in restaurants, picnics, etc.)
- our existing truck (2003 GMC Denali) with a lightweight camper (upsides: own it, know it, extremely maneuverable for its size - Quadrasteer; downsides: way too complex to get service and parts outside the U.S.)
- LC 80 with a tent on top (upsides: very rugged, simple and proven platform, worldwide parts & servcie; downsides: less ride comfort, handling capability & power than the 100)
- LC 100 with a tent on top (upsides: nice ride and amenities, new platform, more power than the 80; downsides: US specific IFS & gas V8, less parts & service capability outside US compared to the 80, IFS may not be as rugged long term nor as 3rd world serviceable as the 80 straight front axle)
- LC 80 or 100 with a trailer (upsides: quick galley & bed, ability to set up base camp and roam/explore with the LC; downsides: we've been on a lot of 3rd world mountain roads and wouldn't want to be up there crossing a pass with a trailer and have to back up)
- VW Westphalia (upsides: older versions known, proven, worldwide parts & service, galley, bed; downsides: dangerously underpowered, 2WD limited, primitive suspension)
- Full size 4WD US chassis van camper conversion (upsides: go anywhere capability, galley, bed, possible wet head/shower; downsides: US chassis may have limited/no parts & service, size, maneuverability)
- EarthRoamer (upsides: engineered & equipped with blue-water-marine grade systems, go anywhere that is not precluded by weight & size chassis capability, galley, bed, wet head/shower; downsides: cost (would need to have insurance on this valuable of an asset), build backlog 12/1 delivery, weight & size limit accessability, "rich, pampered Americans" syndrome inducing, outside US parts & service of Ford 550 chassis & EarthRoamer systems, small company viability/longevity risks, would need to carry the GS on the back to explore the places the EarthRoamer couldn't get to due to size & weight)
We could conceivably add Innovation Campers and Langer & Bock to the list with a modified LC chassis & custom camper. My wife speaks German and we have family & friends there.
We'll probably rent an LC with a top tent somewhere on the planet for a few weeks to check out that platform as a baseline.
I spoke with Christo Slee and he makes a compelling case for the 80 for an overseas expedition.
We are currently pondering our choices and reading as many forum threads as we can as quickly as we can to bone up on the LC 80/100 option.
Prerequisites before we depart:
- wilderness medical training
- off road driving training
- vehicle recovery training
- thoroughly test vehicle and systems
We're going to spend a month or two in language immersion so if we go with a straight LC top tent rig we can get that built while we're doing the language school.
Or we can start on the bike while we wait for something. We know that system very well and feel comfortable on it anywhere in the world. We're tying to stay flexible and let this evolve without making decisions any more rushed than we absolutely have to.
Thanks again for the input and feedback. We continue to learn from every post.
Doug
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asteffes
Explorer
Scott Brady
Founder
Sportsmobile:
I agree with Adam. Now that you are entertaining larger vehicles, the Sportsmobile would be at the top of my list. I know Alan Feld (President) personally and would not hesitate to use their products for this type of adventure.
FZJ80:
They can be pretty comfortable too: DesertDude on this forum just completed a build http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148
I have traveled many thousands of miles with the 80 series trucks, and have never been disappointed. This vehicle will have the greatest durability available, and the greatest capability. They are also quite common in Latin America, and you would blend in much more. The biggest challenge is the vintage. These trucks are getting old, with the newest being nearly 10 years old.
I agree with Adam. Now that you are entertaining larger vehicles, the Sportsmobile would be at the top of my list. I know Alan Feld (President) personally and would not hesitate to use their products for this type of adventure.
FZJ80:
They can be pretty comfortable too: DesertDude on this forum just completed a build http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148
I have traveled many thousands of miles with the 80 series trucks, and have never been disappointed. This vehicle will have the greatest durability available, and the greatest capability. They are also quite common in Latin America, and you would blend in much more. The biggest challenge is the vintage. These trucks are getting old, with the newest being nearly 10 years old.
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Scott Brady
Founder
Since you are considering other vehicle options, it might be worth taking a step back and studying the requirements for an expedition platform:
These are in order of importance.
RELIABILITY:
The ability of a vehicle to perform over long distances and after years of service in rugged terrain without engine, electrical and support system failure due to component malfunction.
CAPACITY:
Payload as a % of GVWR. Ability to carry required equipment, fuel and water.
DURABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to travel rugged terrain, fully loaded without chassis or drivetrain failure with years of continual use.
CAPABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to traverse rocky, muddy, crossed axle terrain including deep water crossings, severe side slopes, hill climbs and descents.
Other factors of influence:
EFFICIENCY:
Fuel efficiency as it relates to payload, which provides the greatest opportunity for range.
The above criteria is why I most commonly recommend an 80 series or a Tacoma. The 100 series also falls into this category, but represents less of a value (if that is a factor)
These are in order of importance.
RELIABILITY:
The ability of a vehicle to perform over long distances and after years of service in rugged terrain without engine, electrical and support system failure due to component malfunction.
CAPACITY:
Payload as a % of GVWR. Ability to carry required equipment, fuel and water.
DURABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to travel rugged terrain, fully loaded without chassis or drivetrain failure with years of continual use.
CAPABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to traverse rocky, muddy, crossed axle terrain including deep water crossings, severe side slopes, hill climbs and descents.
Other factors of influence:
EFFICIENCY:
Fuel efficiency as it relates to payload, which provides the greatest opportunity for range.
The above criteria is why I most commonly recommend an 80 series or a Tacoma. The 100 series also falls into this category, but represents less of a value (if that is a factor)
calamaridog
Expedition Leader
The UZJ100 is a great platform. These are reliable vehicles which begin to show the need for maintenance and begin to display occasional electrical component failures after 80,000 mi or 5 years. This is just the nature of modern vehicle electronics. What I have found is modern vehicles are not as intimidating as people claim. I know of very few failures of components before these approximations based upon feedback from participants on the 100 series forum. Many people have few problems with high mileage vehicles.
My 2000 has had fluid changes, new tires, an oxygen sensor, and a new starter (when the contacts started going bad). I have 90,000 mi. Yes, the starter is a PIA, but when the contacts start going bad you have months notice before it quits.
The 2UZFE 4.7 V8 is used in overseas markets as well as the 4.5 I6 and the 4.2? turbo diesel, so parts ARE available. Probably not as readily available as the 4.5 I6. You can also source parts from the U.S. and get them within a week or so in any population center in the world (for the right price).
With a few thousand dollars worth of spare parts, the FSM, a handheld code reader, and the right tools, you will be good to go anywhere in the world with confidence! (I hope)
It would be insane to consider a high mileage FZJ80 over a low mileage UZJ100. Vehicle age should scare the world traveler! And since when did the FZJ80 vehicle become LESS complex than the newer UZJ100? The FZJ80 is a modern vehicle, with modern (older) electrical components. How is this any less complex?
The 4.7 V8 has proven to be one of the most reliable motors produced by Toyota in recent years. People will try and scare you because it has a timing belt instead of a timing chain. Is this perfect? No, but once again, show me a failure of the timing belt?
A LOW mileage Land Cruiser, (newer vehicle) should be considered if you go with an SUV. I would be looking for something between 03-05 depending on the budget. None of these vehicles will have ever seen dirt so that is not a problem.
Your timeframe of trying to leave in the next month is problematic
I can take you 4 wheeling locally anytime the week of May 8-12 and you can drive my LC it you'd like, assuming you are still around.
You can buy a truck locally and source your parts from online vendors. Then you can have one of the GOOD local Toyota shops build your truck for you. Protrux in San Marcos would be a good source or The Truck Shop in San Diego. They are both competant "dealer alternative" Toyota shops who also build race trucks and do custom fabrication.
Just throwing some different ideas around. Good luck!
My 2000 has had fluid changes, new tires, an oxygen sensor, and a new starter (when the contacts started going bad). I have 90,000 mi. Yes, the starter is a PIA, but when the contacts start going bad you have months notice before it quits.
The 2UZFE 4.7 V8 is used in overseas markets as well as the 4.5 I6 and the 4.2? turbo diesel, so parts ARE available. Probably not as readily available as the 4.5 I6. You can also source parts from the U.S. and get them within a week or so in any population center in the world (for the right price).
With a few thousand dollars worth of spare parts, the FSM, a handheld code reader, and the right tools, you will be good to go anywhere in the world with confidence! (I hope)
It would be insane to consider a high mileage FZJ80 over a low mileage UZJ100. Vehicle age should scare the world traveler! And since when did the FZJ80 vehicle become LESS complex than the newer UZJ100? The FZJ80 is a modern vehicle, with modern (older) electrical components. How is this any less complex?
The 4.7 V8 has proven to be one of the most reliable motors produced by Toyota in recent years. People will try and scare you because it has a timing belt instead of a timing chain. Is this perfect? No, but once again, show me a failure of the timing belt?
A LOW mileage Land Cruiser, (newer vehicle) should be considered if you go with an SUV. I would be looking for something between 03-05 depending on the budget. None of these vehicles will have ever seen dirt so that is not a problem.
Your timeframe of trying to leave in the next month is problematic
I can take you 4 wheeling locally anytime the week of May 8-12 and you can drive my LC it you'd like, assuming you are still around.
You can buy a truck locally and source your parts from online vendors. Then you can have one of the GOOD local Toyota shops build your truck for you. Protrux in San Marcos would be a good source or The Truck Shop in San Diego. They are both competant "dealer alternative" Toyota shops who also build race trucks and do custom fabrication.
Just throwing some different ideas around. Good luck!
calamaridog
Expedition Leader
A new Tacoma might also be worth considering...
I believe they share drivetrain components with other vehicles found in South America and Australia, although they are not as "heavy duty" as you may need.
I believe they share drivetrain components with other vehicles found in South America and Australia, although they are not as "heavy duty" as you may need.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Thank you all for the ideas and input. Greatly appreciated, especially the "reality checks" on requirements, 80 vs. 100, etc.
RE: Sportsmobile
Yes, we have looked at them. We have friends who own one and are very happy with it. That's the option I was referring to with the "Full Size US Van chassis," but I didn't make it brand/builder specific.
Scott, these are excellent criteria. For our purposes and intended destinations, I'd add:
SERVICE-ABILITY: A vehicle that has common parts available worldwide and is familiar to every shade tree mechanic within 1,000 miles has a huge advantage. It sounds easy to "ship in a part" from our perspective of everyday life in the U.S. watching UPS and FedEx ads with guys in brown shirts and RWB trucks pulling up to the Great Wall of China and Bedouin Tents. In reality, it is extremely challenging to ship in items overseas to remote areas, to say nothing of clearing customs, etc. We speak from experience on this one.
SHIP-ABILITY: a vehicle that requires Roll-On/Roll-Off shipping due to height will limit us when it comes time to jump from continent to continent. Even an 80/100 with a short lift and a top tent could be too tall for a regular shipping container (7' 10" / 2.388 m Standard; 8' 10" / 2.692 m HiCube). We're used to putting our bike on a plane, so this is a big criteria for us.
SIZE & WEIGHT: an 80/100 is a pretty HUGE vehicle overseas. This is another area where living here distorts our perceptions. Taxes, fuel prices, lack of space and lack of available capital, among other factors, limit vehicle size in developing countries where we prefer to travel. The transportation infrastructure is sized accordingly. Outside the US, a full size, short wheelbase, US van chassis is about the equivelant of the largest UPS / FedEx delivery truck you've ever seen. A "normal" US vehicle can be limited on where it can go outside this country. And that is before you head down that inviting two-track into the mountains.
IMPACT: A scruffy 80 with some dented Jerry cans strapped on the back wouldn't raise an eyebrow here, other than with the people offended because it was dropping dried mud on the parking lot. Any moving vehicle that shows signs of being from Somewhere Else is a human magnet anywhere in the developing world. Take a new 100 with lights, full front and back protective bars, winch, top tent, awning, etc. and drive it into a village and you might was well pull up with a carnival ride in full motion. To say nothing of the County Fair of a Sportsmobile or the Word's Fair of an EarthRoamer. This factor impacts both your interaction with the local people, something we prize, and your security profile. We've found security to be low to no concern in the developing world if you use common sense, but a big, flashy vehicle is a siren song for those so inclined. It might as well have scolling LED signs down each side reading "RICH AMERICANS, GOODIES INSIDE."
This is an example of what happens when you pull up on a bike. Imagine this scene with an EarthRoamer.
Could you get it through the entrance of the monastery?
We don't want to lose the opportunity to meet and interact with kids like these and their parents.
RE: Sportsmobile
Yes, we have looked at them. We have friends who own one and are very happy with it. That's the option I was referring to with the "Full Size US Van chassis," but I didn't make it brand/builder specific.
expeditionswest said:
Scott, these are excellent criteria. For our purposes and intended destinations, I'd add:
SERVICE-ABILITY: A vehicle that has common parts available worldwide and is familiar to every shade tree mechanic within 1,000 miles has a huge advantage. It sounds easy to "ship in a part" from our perspective of everyday life in the U.S. watching UPS and FedEx ads with guys in brown shirts and RWB trucks pulling up to the Great Wall of China and Bedouin Tents. In reality, it is extremely challenging to ship in items overseas to remote areas, to say nothing of clearing customs, etc. We speak from experience on this one.
SHIP-ABILITY: a vehicle that requires Roll-On/Roll-Off shipping due to height will limit us when it comes time to jump from continent to continent. Even an 80/100 with a short lift and a top tent could be too tall for a regular shipping container (7' 10" / 2.388 m Standard; 8' 10" / 2.692 m HiCube). We're used to putting our bike on a plane, so this is a big criteria for us.
SIZE & WEIGHT: an 80/100 is a pretty HUGE vehicle overseas. This is another area where living here distorts our perceptions. Taxes, fuel prices, lack of space and lack of available capital, among other factors, limit vehicle size in developing countries where we prefer to travel. The transportation infrastructure is sized accordingly. Outside the US, a full size, short wheelbase, US van chassis is about the equivelant of the largest UPS / FedEx delivery truck you've ever seen. A "normal" US vehicle can be limited on where it can go outside this country. And that is before you head down that inviting two-track into the mountains.
IMPACT: A scruffy 80 with some dented Jerry cans strapped on the back wouldn't raise an eyebrow here, other than with the people offended because it was dropping dried mud on the parking lot. Any moving vehicle that shows signs of being from Somewhere Else is a human magnet anywhere in the developing world. Take a new 100 with lights, full front and back protective bars, winch, top tent, awning, etc. and drive it into a village and you might was well pull up with a carnival ride in full motion. To say nothing of the County Fair of a Sportsmobile or the Word's Fair of an EarthRoamer. This factor impacts both your interaction with the local people, something we prize, and your security profile. We've found security to be low to no concern in the developing world if you use common sense, but a big, flashy vehicle is a siren song for those so inclined. It might as well have scolling LED signs down each side reading "RICH AMERICANS, GOODIES INSIDE."
This is an example of what happens when you pull up on a bike. Imagine this scene with an EarthRoamer.
Could you get it through the entrance of the monastery?
We don't want to lose the opportunity to meet and interact with kids like these and their parents.
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Scott Brady
Founder
Doug, these are fantastic images.
I certainly appears to me that your passions for travel and interaction with local peoples are complicating the decision process.
I have often thought of how it would be to travel somewhat under the radar. For example, a basic Toyota pick-up is prolific in Latin America. I have considered the idea of taking a basic, white 4wd Toyota 4cyl (like a 1984-85) and putting a shell on the back, leaving the paint fading and unassuming, then completely rebuilding the drivetrain to better than new. That vehicle would accomplish all of the above goals without question...
I certainly appears to me that your passions for travel and interaction with local peoples are complicating the decision process.
I have often thought of how it would be to travel somewhat under the radar. For example, a basic Toyota pick-up is prolific in Latin America. I have considered the idea of taking a basic, white 4wd Toyota 4cyl (like a 1984-85) and putting a shell on the back, leaving the paint fading and unassuming, then completely rebuilding the drivetrain to better than new. That vehicle would accomplish all of the above goals without question...
calamaridog
Expedition Leader
expeditionswest said:
This concept is brilliant actually. The key is to have a "like new" drivetrain.
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Calamaridog, I must respectfully disagree with the vehicle age thing. I think older vehicles (like the `beloved' 91-92 FJ80, or any 60 series) have generally seen all the gremlins and have been fixed and have many 100s of thousands of reliable trouble-free miles left in them.
I have never truly overlanded (by sea yes) for these kind of miles & countries, but theoretically I'd trust an older vehicle with spares on the consumables significantly more than even a 2-3 year old. Plus (as earlier stated) the blend-in-more factor is more on your side.
I have never truly overlanded (by sea yes) for these kind of miles & countries, but theoretically I'd trust an older vehicle with spares on the consumables significantly more than even a 2-3 year old. Plus (as earlier stated) the blend-in-more factor is more on your side.
calamaridog
Expedition Leader
pskhaat said:
I respect the opinions of the more seasoned members of the forum and world travelers, however, there are electrical components on all newer vehicles that will disable the vehicle if they are not working properly. While the new vehicles are certainly more complex, the difference between a 97 FZJ80 and a 98 UZJ100 are nominal in this respect.
This guy in particular is looking to outfit a vehicle and leave VERY soon. If you had a year, you could build an ubber reliable Toyota based on 1985 technology that would travel the world without problems and without drawing attention from anyone.
If I had to travel the world in a few weeks, I'd buy an almost new Land Cruiser with less than 20,000 miles on it, buy a ton of spares, and go for it with the available off-the-shelf OME and ARB goodies equipped for my driving comfort and safety.
bigreen505
Expedition Leader
calamaridog said:
I have to agree with Calamaridog here. A vehicle that has a few miles on it probably has most of the surprises worked out. An older vehicle could be cleaned up into an ideal expedition vehicle, but on short notice I think you need to play the odds. The reality here is that if you buy a newer low-mileage LC, you are taking a used (albeit newish) vehicle into areas where spare parts may be hard to find, but it is unlikely you will need them. If you buy a FJZ80, you are taking a chance on the previous owners ability to properly maintain the truck and their honesty. While spares will be more readily available, you will not have enough time with the vehicle to truly get a handle on its condition. What has been replaced, what is behaving today but is problematic most days, has the heater hose been replaced, etc. I also think the ability to get a good condition, low mileage FJZ80 is highly overstated. Sure they are out there, but finding a low mileage UZJ100 in good condition will be a lot easier. I am still under the impression here that getting out of town on time with a vehicle that is good enough for your trip is still the top priority. We can go on for months planning the ideal truck, but the reality is it just needs to be good enough to get them where they need to go and home again. When you sail do you buy a boat that is good enough for the trip or do you have Farr or Reichel-Pugh custom design something for you?
If I was in that boat and cost was not really an object I would get the Sportsmobile. I have never heard of an owner with anything but the highest praise, though I have heard a couple that wished they bought a diesel. Remember, the Sportsmobile is technically a RV which gives special financing and insurance rates.
Choice number two for me would be a Toyota Tacoma, built up like Scott's. The reason is it is a proven vehicle and you have a few that you can use as blueprints/prototypes. If you go this route, my first stop would be to a good car stereo shop to have the entire cabin lined with Dynamat. With that many hours on the road, quiet is good.
Last choice would be a Landcruiser, any of them. Again, we are dealing with short time lines here. An old vehicle is a bit of a gamble (though in the long run would probably be close to ideal), and a new one requires the use of premium fuel. This may not be an issue in reality, but I would want to make absolutely certain that premium fuel is available in the areas you plan to travel. One possible workaround would be some sort computer controller (lots of places sell these) that allows you to manually control/overide the engine computer and adjust the timing and fuel mixture as necessary. One possibility would be something from www.tlc4x4.com. I think their offerings may be a bit on the side of high price/low value, but you have the option of a completely restored Land Cruiser from what ever vintage you like.
Food for thought.
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