Need help on this!

[lblampman]

We are both very interested in the offroad options. I pearsonally have read of white rim and the other stuff out west and have heard of the arizona trail(i think is what it is) that is very remote. I will be wanting to go out as deep as I can fairly often(at least 25-30% of the use will be offroad), about 25-30% onroad, and the remaineder would be liveaboard.

So, the offroad part of the equation is off the table now for the main vehicle (that is, you'll use a towed Jeep, etc)? Or at least mostly so? With a large comfortable slide-in truck camper (in a bed or on a flatbed) you won't have a true offroad vehicle (although one capable of off pavement and rough roads). [See http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41173 for a report on a nice Bigfoot (high quality) camper.]

If you intend for adults to ride in the rear part of the cab for any length of time the most comfortable situation would be a crew cab (full four door) rather than just an extended cab. If you haven't tried one out yet get a ride in the back seat of an extended cab to ascertain for yourself whether or not you or your family/friends would be comfortable there.

Also, you'll really have to add up the weights. Oft times with a full size camper on board you'll be at, close to, or over the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of an awfully lot of pickup trucks and may not have enough gross combined weight rating (GCWR) to tow much with. [This is NOT to discourage you, only to point out a possible issue and some larger trucks can handle it; there's a reason Earthroamer uses an F550.] I can't find the thread at the moment but here on the Portal there's a write-up from a member that used a class 4 or 5 Kodiak crew cab for the truck on which they mounted their camper (as I understand it Kodiak is no longer produced). The Eco Roamer (iirc) uses a Ford F650 and there's also a thread here about that vehicle.

If you put a slide-in camper on a flatbed you'll gain the space below the camper that would have normally been below the upper edge of the truck's bed but you will have raised your center of gravity and overall height since the camper will sit quite a lot higher than it does when it's placed in between the wheel wells of a normal truck bed. Again, not saying something is good or bad here, only that the mounting systems are different and that bears consideration.

Sounds like you're having fun thinking about all the various ways that you might put a rig together. I know I've been down that road for many years (and am still on it) and I suspect a lot of others here have been (and are) as well. Enjoy the process! :ylsmoke:

Les
Whidbey Island, WA

 

[bwhite829]

So, the offroad part of the equation is off the table now for the main vehicle (that is, you'll use a towed Jeep, etc)? Or at least mostly so? With a large comfortable slide-in truck camper (in a bed or on a flatbed) you won't have a true offroad vehicle (although one capable of off pavement and rough roads). [See http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41173 for a report on a nice Bigfoot (high quality) camper.]

If you intend for adults to ride in the rear part of the cab for any length of time the most comfortable situation would be a crew cab (full four door) rather than just an extended cab. If you haven't tried one out yet get a ride in the back seat of an extended cab to ascertain for yourself whether or not you or your family/friends would be comfortable there.

Also, you'll really have to add up the weights. Oft times with a full size camper on board you'll be at, close to, or over the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of an awfully lot of pickup trucks and may not have enough gross combined weight rating (GCWR) to tow much with. [This is NOT to discourage you, only to point out a possible issue and some larger trucks can handle it; there's a reason Earthroamer uses an F550.] I can't find the thread at the moment but here on the Portal there's a write-up from a member that used a class 4 or 5 Kodiak crew cab for the truck on which they mounted their camper (as I understand it Kodiak is no longer produced). The Eco Roamer (iirc) uses a Ford F650 and there's also a thread here about that vehicle.

If you put a slide-in camper on a flatbed you'll gain the space below the camper that would have normally been below the upper edge of the truck's bed but you will have raised your center of gravity and overall height since the camper will sit quite a lot higher than it does when it's placed in between the wheel wells of a normal truck bed. Again, not saying something is good or bad here, only that the mounting systems are different and that bears consideration.

Sounds like you're having fun thinking about all the various ways that you might put a rig together. I know I've been down that road for many years (and am still on it) and I suspect a lot of others here have been (and are) as well. Enjoy the process! :ylsmoke:

Les
Whidbey Island, WA

It will be an offroad vehicle, but I will be towing a 2nd vehicle to be my play toy while i'm there. would an f350 or f450 not be enough for a light camper? i don't want a super plush, everything in it camper, just a kitchen, bathroom, and bed. maybe something small w/ bathroom and kitchen w/ a pop up for bed? when i said extended cab i mean full crew cab....i've ridden in the back of an extended cab...they haven't been comfy for me since i was little. so a flatbed would have higher center of gravity? i'll take this into consideration, thanks for your help.

 

[lblampman]

Hi Brian,

It's not a matter of absolutes, but rather degrees of compromises. So the answer is "yes", an F350 or F450 will handle a light camper and will tow but it's the definition of "light" that's open to interpretation (and is in the eyes of the beholder). And it depends on the year of the truck as well; early F350s and F450s didn't have the capacity ratings the new ones have (that's due to changes in frame material and/or design as far as I know). So all-in-all it's about finding the truck (model/year) you like, looking up its capacities, finding the camper you like, and looking up its weight (and adding fluid weights, cooking and living items, tools, recovery items, personal gear, etc), then making sure that weight doesn't exceed the truck's max carrying capacity (that is, keeps truck under its Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). You also have to add the weight of the folks in the cab, fuel in the truck, and any gear or fluids you store on the flatbed but didn't count in the camper weight.

If all that works out, then you can figure out if adding the weight of what you want to tow will fall within the Gross Combined Weight Rating after subtracting the weight of the truck with the full camper loaded.

Ditto on the offroad thing, it's not an area of absolutes. The Mog you were considering would likely go a lot more places than a F350/F450 with a camper on it would but whether or not that makes a difference is up to you; for some the F350/F450 would still exceed their needs (they're just not going to push it that much), others would scoff at the idea that an F350/F450 with a camper is really an "offroad" vehicle at all. This is truly an area where personal experience and personal opinions matter a lot, and the definition of going offroad is as varied as the folks that define it.

I was assuming a rather comfortable camper based on your description of your intended lifestyle in your first post. I thought you meant that you were going to travel and live in the camper full time for awhile before starting a family. I hadn't pictured a minimilist sort of camper for that, but that's based on my perceptions of comfort not yours! There a several writeups here on EP using a flatbed and a pop-up camper and they seem like very capable rigs. You'd have to decide if the amenity and comfort level would work for you and yours.

And yes, the flatbed will raise the center of gravity...all other things being equal (which they're not). Picture the bed of a standard pickup with the wheel wells protruding into the bed. The typical camper slides in on the floor of the bed and sits between the wheel wells. Now picture a flatbed; it has to be pretty much installed at the highest point of the wheel wells in order to clear the tires at their maximum deflection. That puts the floor of the flatbed many inches higher than the floor of the truck bed; the camper then sits that much higher on the truck when mounted. So it's easy to see how the center of gravity gets raised a fair amount.

On the other hand, once you put the camper on a flatbed you have the space available under the side of the flatbed for storage and utilities. You can put some really heavy items like batteries, recovery items, tools, parts, and liquids quite low so that can mitigate some (or all) of the upward increase in the center of gravity. You have to consider where you'll be traveling with regard to liquids though since they'll be exposed to the elements and can freeze up if you're in cold weather. Even if you don't intend to stay in cold weather you may have to travel through it to get where you want to be.

There is no universal "perfect". The perfect rig for you will be the one who's compromises most fit your needs. I like to invoke the 80/20 rule. If you're happy with your choice 80% of the time you've made a good one. For most of us there's always that 20% (or lower if you're really lucky) of the time when we see another rig and think...if only.

Les
Whidbey Island, WA

 

[bwhite829]

thanks for the input. Back to the drawing boards! :wings:

 

[Allroader]

:luxhello:What a great Post Les :wings:

Second that Post, everything said

 

[lblampman]

:luxhello:What a great Post Les :wings:

Second that Post, everything said

Thank you, I have lots of questions for the folks here so just trying to start paying it forward!

I've been following your build...it's great. Hope the snow goes away so you can get busy again (selfish need to see another update from you)! :elkgrin:

Les