Need some help, as usual.

[Casper]

So, I am getting ready to start restoring my 72 CJ5. Nothing huge at first as funds are tight this summer. My problem is this. In all of my searching I can't find any real threads on someone restoring an older CJ5. I can find some threads on a few newer Jeep restores, and TONS of threads on heavely modified CJ5's, but nothing for a near stock restore.

I am just looking for idea's, hints and tricks that may help with this. I have tried to ask this on a few Jeep specific forums with little luck. Most of the coments I get are "drive it the way it is" or "you need to mod it out and wheel it", needless to say neither of which is my intent for this project.

So, if you know of any threads, or tips and tricks, or have a restore of your own you would like to share post up.

Some of the things I am iterested in now are paint sceems and colors, dash layouts from stock to just plain weird. Suspension setups, something comfortable and safe to drive at speed, don't really care about "flexin". And any other opinions ya'll might have.

The basic goal for this build is to have a fun summer vehicle, that will be very reliable as well. I am not looking to build another expo rig out of it. The stance will be left right about where it is now. I know this is a tad off for this sight, but I am hoping that ya'll can help out anyway. :wings:

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

 

[Black Dog]

That jeep is...beautiful....:drool:

So are you thinking of restoring to assembly line stock, or a resto-mod kind of thing (engine swap, power steering, etc.)? If you go the resto-mod route, I personally think that a big huge powerful V8 is overkill for such a small vehicle. Something like a 283 or a 205 fits well under the hood and still has enough power to make it fun. I'm not sure what the CJ5's came with from the factory, but I'd bet it was pretty close to that.

I think the orange paint scheme looks pretty nice too, maybe get a little bit of flake in it to make it really shine.

 

[DrMoab]

Wow, you don't see too many unmolested CJ-5s anymore. Glad to see you aren't planning on chopping it up.

I have a feeling that one day they are going to be worth quite a bit of money. They sold tons of them but so many were cut up and destroyed to make rock crawlers out of.

Honestly if you are planning on keeping it close to the way it is, you might find more info on the hot rod restoration forums. Body work is body work is body work.

My brother did a frame off resto on a CJ-7 a few years ago. It was a lot of work and mostly just sweat and blood.

 

[Root Moose]

Have you done any research at this site:

http://www.earlycj5.com/

These guys tend to be more serious CJ people. Not kids that want to beat the snot out of what they dragged home. I haven't been there in a while but I'm sure it is the same.

http://cjoffroad.com has some good content also. There is almost a "parallel" Internet for the old Jeeps once you know where to look.

My next Jeep build I'm going to do a little differently than the last one. I'm going to break it down into weekend projects and try to keep the Jeep drivable throughout.

Why? Having a completely disassembled Jeep in your shop can be a bit of a killjoy at times. At least that is the way for me. I get bogged down in the intensity of the stuff that needs to be done and then lose momentum. Makes it real easy to have other projects get the queue.

In your case, what is the end goal? Total frame off rebuild? If so, I would recommend that you do all the other comfort stuff first. For example, if you wanted to add TBI fuel injection, GM ignition, shackle reverse, new seats with a custom console, change the ring and pinion ratios, add lower ratio transfer case gears, whatever... Do all that stuff as a weekend or two project as opposed to having the entire vehicle apart as you are doing things. You'll get more satisfaction from having those things done and still being able to drive the vehicle.

Engine rebuild can be a weekend project (pull engine - have machine shop rebuild over course of week or two or have bench built one ready to go - reinstall "new" engine). Do the same with the transmission.

Once you have all the weekend project stuff done... I guess the Jeep is more or less done. Disassemble and get the tub repaired, frame blasted painted, etc. Couple of weekends and it could be done.

You see what I'm getting at I guess.

MY72, does that have the Dana 20 or Dana 18? Is the rear axle offset?

I really like a "stealthy" build on early Jeeps. Well, any Jeep for that matter.

For your intended usage, I'd be inclined to do something along the following lines:

- add wide track axles from the later CJ5/7 (upgrade rear to Dana 44 at the same time - just because).

- settle on a tire size. I figure 31x10.5x15 is plenty big for a CJ5 with your intentions.

- tune suspension to fit tires/axles above. I'm not "up" on what is the trick setup on the early CJs with 2" wide springs. I'd expect some web research will give info on the best riding springs. If you can somehow run longer, wider springs without hacking the Jeep up that would be ideal. YJ springs are a good spring to use if you can make it work. Also, some of the aftermarket manufacturers have a good reputation for ride quality (OME).

- Consider a shackle reversal in the front. Make sure that your front propellor shaft has enough plungle to deal with the axle moving backwards toward the transfer case in suspension bump motion.

- Interior, tune to taste. Nice seats, center console, weather friendly stereo, etc., etc. I'm not a fan of hacked up dashboards personally. Run what you have, replace all the back lighting with LEDs so that it look modern yet retro at the same time.

- Engine, seriously think about a EFI 4.0 out of a newer Jeep.

- Get a quality soft top - I'm a fan of the BestTop one that has the modernish belt around the top of the tub so that you don't have to use snaps. Snaps suck (Bt/dt sold the vehicle in frustration).

- Colour... I'm big on OEM colour schemes on the old Jeeps. Modern paint can look good too. I'm not big on "flash" colours on Jeeps but if I had your Jeep I'd likely respray in the factory metallic orange colour.

For printed resource:



Sorry for the novel. Just really like old CJs. Can you tell?

 

[Casper]

That jeep is...beautiful....:drool:

So are you thinking of restoring to assembly line stock, or a resto-mod kind of thing (engine swap, power steering, etc.)? If you go the resto-mod route, I personally think that a big huge powerful V8 is overkill for such a small vehicle. Something like a 283 or a 205 fits well under the hood and still has enough power to make it fun. I'm not sure what the CJ5's came with from the factory, but I'd bet it was pretty close to that.

I think the orange paint scheme looks pretty nice too, maybe get a little bit of flake in it to make it really shine.

Thanks for the coments. You guys are right that you don't find many that have not been cut up. That's one of my problems as I am looking for a good used tub since mine has a bit of cancer in it, and although I know how to fix dents, welding in new body panels to patch the holes is out of my skill range.

I am not looking at "assembly line" stock, but more the resto-mod route. Body will be stock, suspension upgraded to something that rides a tad better. Engine, it has the stock 258 inline six. To be honest I am thinking I will keep it, providing the loss of oil pressure I get now when it warms up is a guage problem and not the engine itself (crossing my fingers on this one). If it's the engine, then I might look into putting a 304?? in it as they came from the factory with that option and would be an easy upgrade. Gauges and dash will be upgraded. I like the heater controls from the 76 and up models better, and would like a slightly update look for the gauges themselves.

Color, I like the orange, but want to keep my options open here. Since I plan on keeping this for a long time, I just want to make sure I am happy with the color I choose. The hard top, I keep going back and forth on that one. I don't really like the looks of it, but it is vintage.......... so we shall see. Unfortunately it got a tad damaged this winter by the snow. Slightly bent and one broken window

If things were perfect, I would love to find a new tub for it soon. That way I could slowly work on that during the summer, while still being able to drive it :smiley_drive: Then next winter I could work on the frame, engine and the rest. Having it back together and restored for the next summer. However we know how these kind of plans tend change during the process. :Wow1:

DrMoab, I never thought to look at the Hotrod sights, thanks for that tip.

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:victory:

 

[alosix]

I love the look of that Jeep as it sits.

Given what you said I'd concentrate on reliability and drive-ability.

To me that's an engine that starts all the time every time, and that means fuel injection, wiring, and a decent charging system.

If you were an engine swap I'd probably put a 4.3 vortec in. Decent size and reasonable power for that size vehicle.

Is the hardtop/doors something that will stay on in the summer? Adding some AC might be nice.

Seats and some sound insulation never hurt for driving enjoyment.

Another thing that I would concentrate on is getting the steering tight and bushings fresh in the leaf springs. If you've got it in you, pulling the spring packs apart and putting fresh 'teflon' in between the leaves and reassembling wouldn't be a bad thing. Should easy the ride a bit.

Jason

 

[Casper]

Have you done any research at this site:

http://www.earlycj5.com/

Sorry for the novel. Just really like old CJs. Can you tell?

No appallagy nesessary. I can use all the info I can get.
I have seen the earlycj site, but not the other one. Will have to check that out.
Question, why the wider axles? I understand if I were to wheel it, but that is not the intent of this build. Just wondering. I hadn't thought ot do that.

Tires, 31's will be the largest it ever sees, might even go one size down. I will be taking it to a friends tire shop lator and playing with a few different sizes. I want the tires to perfectly match the wheel well openings (sounds stupid, I know)

Engine, I really want to keep it simple. I like the idea of no more wires and a carb. It's been a while since I have owned such a simple vehicle. I like it. But we shall see..

I have been looking at that exact book. I was able to get a factory service manuel for my model and year, so that is helping as well.

I understand the "weekend project" mentality. That was my thinking as well, with a twist. I want to get a new tub this summer and work on that while I drive the CJ around. Then this winter I can take the CJ off the road and do the rest.

Thanks for all the advice, please keep it coming.

I love the look of that Jeep as it sits.

Given what you said I'd concentrate on reliability and drive-ability.

To me that's an engine that starts all the time every time, and that means fuel injection, wiring, and a decent charging system.

If you were an engine swap I'd probably put a 4.3 vortec in. Decent size and reasonable power for that size vehicle.

Is the hardtop/doors something that will stay on in the summer? Adding some AC might be nice.

Seats and some sound insulation never hurt for driving enjoyment.

Another thing that I would concentrate on is getting the steering tight and bushings fresh in the leaf springs. If you've got it in you, pulling the spring packs apart and putting fresh 'teflon' in between the leaves and reassembling wouldn't be a bad thing. Should easy the ride a bit.

Jason

Yep, will be getting the suspension and steering up to date.
More than likely the hard top will not go back on, but that is still in the air.
Seat, I am trying to find a stock set to redo. (this is turning out hard than I thought)

Engine, just want to keep it simple. I like the little 258.

Keep the ideers coming.

Cheers
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

 

[OverlandZJ]

Josh, could you use any or all of this? I recently found it in a box in garage, leftover from a 68 CJ5 i briefly had.

Love the Jeep..

 

[Root Moose]

Question, why the wider axles? I understand if I were to wheel it, but that is not the intent of this build. Just wondering. I hadn't thought ot do that.

Just to make it more stable. Not that the Jeep is unstable now but if you can find some wide axles that some guy that has already built but is selling because he now feels he needs Dana 60s... you can profit by him dumping the "junk" axles. Case in point, on our local club a Dana 30 for an XJ with 4.56 gears, ARB, etc., etc sold for $750 on the weekend. Rear Dana 44 with ARB and 4.56 for $450. Nuts. I almost bought them for myself...but I need wheels for the coming racing season.

If you can take advantage of something like that...

Also, if you can overhaul a second set of axles while still driving on your stockers then why not? At the same time do some cheap updates that effectively don't cost anything (going wider for example).

Tires, 31's will be the largest it ever sees, might even go one size down. I will be taking it to a friends tire shop lator and playing with a few different sizes. I want the tires to perfectly match the wheel well openings (sounds stupid, I know)

No, that's a perfectly valid reason. That's why I'm running the P-metric equivalent of 32s on my XJ. I like 31s because they are a common size that you will find for sale used a lot.

People really get hung up on tire size. All the cool kids are always running at least a few sizes larger than I am.

Reality is that you need to balance how you will really use the Jeep versus what the old timers tell you with respect to ease of upgrade, strength of materials, etc., etc. Rule of thumb, stay clear of the buggy guys.

Engine, I really want to keep it simple. I like the idea of no more wires and a carb. It's been a while since I have owned such a simple vehicle. I like it. But we shall see..

Well, that's a philosophical thing at that point. I'll never own a carbed vehicle again - or at least any carb'ed vehicle I ever bought would end up with EFI pretty quickly. EFI is so "fire and forget" and there is really not that much complexity to it IMO. There's a handful of sensors and the ECM. The service manual tells you how to troublshoot. And the Jeep 4.0 is so common you could probably post a help request on an arts and crafts forum and get some help. Familiarity is good.

If the engine has good compression you could consider adding a EFI head (and electronics) to your 4.2 bottom end. I may do that with my YJ.

I wouldn't do an AMC V8 in a Jeep universal personally. I like the industrial noise that the six makes.

I have been looking at that exact book. I was able to get a factory service manuel for my model and year, so that is helping as well.

I have it and feel it worth having.

I understand the "weekend project" mentality. That was my thinking as well, with a twist. I want to get a new tub this summer and work on that while I drive the CJ around. Then this winter I can take the CJ off the road and do the rest.

You know, the tub is the last thing I would do. Doing all the other weekend projects will end up making scratches or whatever on the tub. I did a similar thing when I went through my SJ-413 (tub near the beginning). By the time I had done all the other stuff there was visible wear and tear in places... even just spending an evening leaning against the front fender while messing around under the hood (damn carb) showed signs.

Do you really need a new tub? You haven't shown what the floors look like but from what I've seen above I'd say you could get a local body shop to put it to right for much less than a new tub.

I was shopping for a new tub for the YJ a few weeks ago and was shocked to see the price has gone up ~$1500 since the last time I shopped a few years ago. $3500 will get your tub looking show room condition (with paint!).

For suspension, consider doing front coils? That'll give a great ride. Pricey to do though. There are kits for CJ7s so I suspect that they will fit a CJ5. You could do that style of lift with a high pinion axle out of a XJ for more front end strength as well. See, buy a used XJ for say $500-$1500, provides a EFI engine and hardness that is known to be working, use the front and rear axles. Add front coil kit. Use OEM backspaced wheels (TJ rubicon wheels with 245s) to get the wheels back under the Jeep.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Casper]

Root Moose,

Cool, thanks for all the good info. I get what you are saying about wider axles now. I hadn't considered it, but will now look into it further. Thanks.

Tires, every vehicle I have built has been built around the tires. My last project I wanted 35's, so I started there and did everything to make that work. This project is no different, except the size of the tire is quite a bit smaller. I actually really like the stance of the CJ now with the wheels and tires, just not sure if the rear tire fits the wheel well (looks wise) Thats why I want to play with the sizes alittle. It's nice to have a good friend with a tire shop so I can do this.

Tub, well have a look. These are just a couple photos that don't show everything.

I beleive this is where the stock tire carrier was. Apperently the person who removed it didn't have a wrench.

Back corner, photo doesn't do it justice. It's pushed in pretty bad. And no, I am not the one who used a wood screw to hold the tail light on. :Wow1:

Rockers, since I sanded it down, there is more metal missing than you can see. The part towards the front on the rocker goes all the way up to the door opening.

Floor, actually look pretty good, but I need to get under it and really see. They are covered in a thick paint, so you never know. Body work doesn't scare me. I am not the best at it by any means, but I have found I can do a great job, it just takes me 5 times longer than most body men. It's the welding in of "patch" pieces or new panels that I can't do. (heck, I can't even weld at all, but am signed up for Begining welding at the local college, :wings: for the summer. It's been almost 19 years since I went to school, hope it's not as scary as I think it will be)

The only reason I was thinking body first was if I end up with a used tub. Then I could work on it seperatly. If I end up fixing this tub, then it will definately be the last thing I do.

Engine, we shall see. I was dead set on keeping this one origanal. But I am now keeping my mind open. I have seen there are a few ways to make this one injected, but have read alot of mixed feelings on whether it was worth it or not.

Coil overs, I have been thinking the same thing there as well. The only reason I was steering away from it was cost. We shall see.

Thanks for all the great insight. I am getting really siked to start this project. Keep the ideas coming.

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

 

[Casper]

Josh, could you use any or all of this? I recently found it in a box in garage, leftover from a 68 CJ5 i briefly had.

Love the Jeep..

OverlandXJ,
Thanks for the offer. Not sure what I am doing with the dash at this moment. I do have a good working speedo and turn signal switch in it now though. So no need for more. Got anthiny else in boxes lieing around??? :coffeedrink:

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

 

[Casper]

On a side note, I need to slow down my typing and check my spelling better. Sorry about that guys...

JSP

 

[OverlandZJ]

OverlandXJ,
Thanks for the offer. Not sure what I am doing with the dash at this moment. I do have a good working speedo and turn signal switch in it now though. So no need for more. Got anthiny else in boxes lieing around??? :coffeedrink:

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

You sure? Freebies.. just pick up shipping. Spares? Probably fit in a 14.50 flat rate USPS box.

Nothing else.. all gone.

 

[Root Moose]

Ok, I see your issues with the tub now. It's workable but not as nice as I thought it was. Where are you located again? Colorado?

Getting a used tub from the desert should be workable, no?

Quadratec has your vintage tub for ~$3350. That's bare metal. You might get it a few hundred dollars less if you shop around.

I'm not a fan of coil overs as a general rule. If you could find or modify a kit that used TJ coils that would be better for a daily driver style of Jeep IMO.

I guess a lot of all of this depends on how much of mega project you want to get into.

 

[Black Dog]

I beleive this is where the stock tire carrier was. Apperently the person who removed it didn't have a wrench.

Thats pretty funny.

i wish I could give you a link but I can't. That square hole where the tire carrier was shouldn't be too terribly hard to patch since its pretty uniform and not jagged (I'm not much of a body person) And for the rusty parts, if older jeeps are anything like older volkswagens then you'll be able to get replacement pieces where you'll trace a template unto the tub and cut out the rust along your dotted line, then weld in the new piece.