Need to buy a fullsize truck, diesel, gas, 3/4 or 1/2 ton?

[DesertJK]

Hello everyone,

This spring I need to get a full size pickup. I would really like a flatbed truck with stake sides, and I would sew myself a canvas cover for it. I will use this truck for hauling large and heavy items, and for at least one trip in the summer north into Canada, and maybe Alaska, and then possibly a trip south next summer. I will tow my trailer seen here

So I keep going back and forth between gas and diesel. I always wanted a diesel truck, if Jeep would have had a diesel Wrangler, I would have bought it. Problem is that I see rural stations out of diesel more often than gas, diesel costs more right now, and I do the math of fuel efficiency VS. price of fuel, gas usually still wins over diesel. I have been looking at Dodge Ram trucks. If I go gas I can get a 1500 1/2 ton, and have a lighter vehicle that can still tow what I need. If I go diesel, I can find a 6 speed, and there are more that already have a flat bed around here.
I can also find a really nice 1500 Dodge for WAY less than a 2500 with a Cummins. It would take 10 years to use enough gas to make up the price difference between the two, and that is if Diesel is the cheaper fuel in the long run. I don't have fantasies about making homebrew diesel. From what I have seen it is a messy pain in the ***. I would pay a premium to burn a locally made bio fuel and the Pacific Pride station up the road from me sells bio diesel, but what about while traveling?
I am just rambling on here, it may all be a pointless thing to be concerned about anyways with the expected fuel price increase this summer, and the fact that it will be driven even higher because Wall Street is betting on fuel price futures. I may not be able afford riding my motorcycle this year, let alone a V8 truck, or a pig of a Jeep.

So, any regrets from Diesel P/U owners? Any Dodge 1500 owners who wish they would have gone with a 2500?

 

[DesertJK]

I should also mention, I am looking at used Dodge trucks, not new ones. I think I will be able to spend between 10K and 13K on one, but less for more is always better. Thats why I started looking at the 1500's.

 

[Hawkz]

I have a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 quad cab with the 5.7 and 3.92 gears that I bought new. Overall I have been very happy with it. It is my daily driver and I sometimes tow my Jeep on a trailer with it. The 5.7 w/ 3.92 gears is rated to tow 8600#, which is more than I need. I am at 99,000 miles and I have only needed to replace the EGR valve and the power steering cooler. (Plus normal wear items like brakes, tires, fluid changes, ect.) Overall it has been one of the better trucks I have owned.

My only issue is the IFS. I have not actually had any issues with it, but I also haven't bothered trying to lift it. If you plan to leave the suspension mostly stock, a 1500 should work just fine.

If I had to do it over, I probably would have bought a 2500 with the same 5.7 gas engine. The solid front axle and bigger breaks would be nice. I agree the diesel is tempting, but for how I use it, probably not worth the extra cost.

 

[Code Monkey]

I think where diesel pays off is when your GVWR/payload/tow weight gets up there where you are really pushing it. I got my diesel because I wanted its performance with regards to towing and weight carrying.

With a light to middleweight trailer and not much weight then gas is okay, although diesel will often get better mileage if you are doing any work like towing.

But like you say, diesel is more expensive usually. Just bear in mind that some gas rigs require higher octane gasoline, and that while you can usually run them on lower octane fuel, your performance and fuel efficiency will generally suffer making the cheaper fuel not that much of a bargain.

As for availability - you don't notice it that much until you need to buy it. Before I bought my truck ('97 3500 CTD 4x4 with a 12' flatbed), I just glanced around and noticed diesel from time to time and thought 'no problem', but then I actually had to find fuel it opened my eyes a bit as to how few stations carry diesel. It isn't rare, but a significant number of gas stations just don't carry it period.

Rural areas - if there is any farming going on, then I would expect there to be a diesel supply somewhere. But again it just won't be as popular as gas. On any highway where there are semi trucks there will be fuel though.

For a flatbed, you may want to consider getting a UTE flatbed for your purposes.

http://www.uteltd.com/

If you aren't looking for a work related flatbed that has to handle forklifts bumping into and such, then these are nice.

 

[Outdoorsben]

IMO i'd choose between a 1500 gasser or a 2500 gasser. I have a 1500 quad cab hemi. It gets 14mpg city and 17 highway. It's very expensive to lift an IFS vehicle so if u want a huge lift and big tires then a 2500 is what you want. If you want a truck with maybe a coil spacer then the 1500 would be fine. I've towed with mine and loaded up the bed with lots of things and it's always got enough power, of course towing and hauling the gas mileage suffers.

 

[OTR]

Why not a newer (2007+) Toyota Tundra with a 5.7? I have over 100,000 miles on mine with zero problems. Other than oil and tires the only thing I have replaced is the windshield wipers and front brakes. I recommend test driving one before pulling the trigger on a Ram. I recommend even more of finding a used high mileage truck of anything you want to buy to test drive and pay close attention to seat comfort, cabin ergonomics, wind noise steering/suspension for play/squeaks and rattles inside the cabin. I can attest that my truck still drives like new after 3 trips up the Alcan, hundreds of miles off-road, and 2 very harsh winters in northern Alaska. I almost want to test drive a new Tundra to see if I can tell any difference myself.

 

[DesertJK]

I think where diesel pays off is when your GVWR/payload/tow weight gets up there where you are really pushing it. I got my diesel because I wanted its performance with regards to towing and weight carrying.

My trailer is 1900 empty, and has a gross weight of 5500. If I pack everything I need for a long trip, including my dirtbike, I can still tow it with my JK so I think a 1500 would be fine.



Rural areas - if there is any farming going on, then I would expect there to be a diesel supply somewhere. But again it just won't be as popular as gas. On any highway where there are semi trucks there will be fuel though.

I live in a rural area that grows most of the worlds apples. The farmers don't buy regular highway diesel, they buy farm diesel and from what I have heard, is prepaid for the season and illegal to run on the highway. I am thinking other areas have similar deals.

For a flatbed, you may want to consider getting a UTE flatbed for your purposes.

http://www.uteltd.com/

If you aren't looking for a work related flatbed that has to handle forklifts bumping into and such, then these are nice.

Those Utes are cool. I want a bed somewhere in the middle of a Ute and a work bed. I need to be able to carry logs, busted airplane parts, and big rocks and equipment. I think my best bet will be to build my own when I get the truck. I want to put a removable cage/rack over it, boxes below, and sew up a canvas cover that secures down nice and tight. I would rather build it out of steel than aluminum due to cost, field repairs, and dent resistance. I can make the think pretty sparse compared to the heavy work beds I usually see and not get too heavy with it.

IMO i'd choose between a 1500 gasser or a 2500 gasser. I have a 1500 quad cab hemi. It gets 14mpg city and 17 highway. It's very expensive to lift an IFS vehicle so if u want a huge lift and big tires then a 2500 is what you want. If you want a truck with maybe a coil spacer then the 1500 would be fine. I've towed with mine and loaded up the bed with lots of things and it's always got enough power, of course towing and hauling the gas mileage suffers.

I really don't want to lift it anymore than what it will take to level it. I have a Jeep Rubicon, and a few off road bikes for off road. I only really need 4 wheel drive for winter in this truck. I will put a decent bumper on it and some AT tires, but that is about it. I also do not want to suffer the mileage penalty that a lift will cause.

It looks like it will be a 1500 Dodge. I guess I should look at Ford too. I like the Dodge simplicity better, but the F150's seem pretty well made. I don't like GM much, I have never owned one though, but work trucks I have been in seem to rattle more than most on gravel.

 

[lllateralus]

If you are looking for a GREAT truck with a proven bulletproof and forever lasting motor, super heavy hauling ability and towing ability, not crazy expensive, solid front axle instead of weak IFS, go with a 1999 - 2002 Ford Super Duty with the 7.3 liter diesel.

I recently bought a nice 2001 F350 7.3 crew cab 4X4 and she is about to turn 100K miles and is solid as a rock in every aspect.

Owning a diesel is more than just trying to offset price with increased fuel economy, etc... its about the truck itself.
Driving the truck is just plain fun. (banks exhaust, banks chip, etc.. just makes the truck just THAT much more fun and powerful)

The longevity, fuel economy, turbo sound, etc... icing on the cake.
:sombrero:

 

[4Rescue]

If I were going to buy a FS truck, I wouldn't even THINK about a gas motor. I'd personaly choose a Cum mins powered Dodge (best motor and trucks out there IMO) or the above mentioned 7.3 Detroit powered Super Duty... Half the draw of the FS trucks is that you can GET a diesel her ein N.America... If I could GET a factory diesel Toyota with one of their new brilliant TD's I'd buy that personaly because IMO Toyota is > then anything Domestic in every way EXCEPT for offering a Diesel (A Turbo-Diesel 75-troopy is my dream truck)... That said a Cummins 6spd manual Dodge could make me VERY happy. I used to drive an 05 Superduty with a manual-tranny and the 6.0L PSD and while it was a ROCKET ship it had some very well known issues. I LOVE the syling of those trucks though (not much for the new ones YUCK) but the bare-bones, Man-tranny quad cab SD's are REALLY nice looking IMO and teh 7.3 really makes them a winner.

Diesel is a "thing" for me, I used 75-series UTE Cruisers in Australia VERY HEAVILY and was so impressed I couldn't stand not being able to have one here... SOme day my 4Runner will be 1KZ-T powered...Another plus I found is that when actualy USED as a 4wd the diesel is SO much better in terms of power delivery and fuel milage on trail it's just rediculous. PLus you can ford more water and in general worry far less about having a dead truck from every angle. We forded window deep water and litteraly ran down cattle in our Diesel Cruisres and they never complained. Plus there really was no "lugging" the motor down, it just loved to get used. I WANT ONE SO BAD!!!!!!

back on track, I guees I'm saying: GO DIESEL. you'll never regret it. Or at least I never would. I keep trucks for a LONG time so the added strength and systems of a 3500 diesel will pay off in the long run and I WOULD recoup my costs through milage alone... anyone who say you won't either turns over vehicles at an alarming rate or has never actualy owned a diesel and is just bench-top racing on the internet. I've owned several VW diesel's and still have a 1.9 to swap into something one of these days. They really are all they're cracked up to be. You just need adaquate power out-put reletive to the size of the rig you're hauling around with it. And with diesel small can be made to do FAR more then with gas motors without blowing a rod through the block or burning up the rings...

YMMV, but I think Diesel is the way of the future.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Rovertrader]

here are a couple pics of my PW with a Ute- great combo for me. I would suggest going this route and add the thick rubber stall flooring to protect it from dents etc. The weight saving is huge, thus extending the load capacity.

Gas vs diesel? Age old issue. I use a diesel Ford for towing and long haul trips like cross country retrieving Rovers, etc. The PW for all local and bed loads and camping/exploring trips.

After a lifetime of swapping back and forth, gas diesel, 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton, etc it is cheaper and better for me to have one of each, stop the switching back and forth. The 1/2 tons are too light for hard work. The diesels do not like around town start and stops. Just my 2 cents and 40 years of driving and trying to answer the same question... Also, as a note, if you modify your trucks, calculate the cost of that with each traded vehicle.

 

[Humvette]

Rovertrader:
Did you notice a mpg increase when you took off your inner dually wheel?
I am thinking about doing this. I want to just put 4 regular tires on and then when i need to tow the H1 i through the other set of rears on???
Thx,
M

 

[Rovertrader]

mine was SRW to begin, sorry.
Miss my H1 at times- had an '02 for a couple years- great trucks!!

 

[locrwln]

I'd personaly choose a Cum mins powered Dodge (best motor and trucks out there IMO) or the above mentioned 7.3 Detroit powered Super Duty... =

Pssss. 7.3's were built by International. Detroit helped GM when designing the 6.2. :ylsmoke:

I like diesel pickups as well, well enough that I have two. But I will say, that you have to either really need or want a diesel to own one. Anyone who thinks owning a modern diesel is cheaper than a gas truck is living in a dream world. Diesels take more oil, more filter changes and when they break, they are expensive (luckily I haven't had any problems, yet, knock on wood). But when you are at 8k feet with a load and you still have power, that is what is hard to beat. Besides, both my diesels get loaded mpg what a comparable gas truck gets for mpg when unloaded. It's not even close when they are both loaded with similar weights on either power or mileage.

Of course, you must keep in mind that most diesel truck owners lie about their mileage and Cummins owners seem to be the worst. You have all heard the Dodge guy that is pulling 10k at 80 mph getting 22 mpg...:Wow1:

I have owned several 1/2t and now a 3/4t and 1t. The one thing I don't like about 1/2t, is that you run out of capacity very quickly, whereas a 3/4 or 1 has a lot more before you are overloaded. With a 1/2t you can either tow or haul, but not very much of both at the same time. With a heavier duty truck, you can. Not sure you ever will, but it is nice to know you can. You will have to decide whether gas or diesel makes sense to you.




Jack

 

[Humvette]

locrwin
I love you setup. Go International Deisels!!! :wings:

 

[Terrainist]

Seems like it is a weekly occurrence the past few months that there is a thread like this that goes round and round about gas or diesel. There should be a few more threads with opinions on both if you are so inclined to read them.

Anymore I'm telling anyone that has to ask, buy a gasser. If you have to ask, buy gas. That way there is less demand for diesel fuel. And the market for my preferred trucks is better. And it gets tiring trying to explain how much better a diesel truck is, there is no comparison. Cost to use and durability is so far apart they aren't even the same species. Assuming you get the right diesel.