New Defender Buyers Discussions

[JackW]

I was thinking that if enough of us prospective new Defender owners email landroverusa.com telling them that we really want the diesels here it might make them consider it. I responded back to one of the updates the company sends me pointing out that the typical potential new Defender owner is a lot more likely to want a diesel than any other vehicle they sell. My local dealer has sold a lot of diesel Discovery 5's and F-Pace jags.

 

[blackangie]

I was thinking that if enough of us prospective new Defender owners email landroverusa.com telling them that we really want the diesels here it might make them consider it. I responded back to one of the updates the company sends me pointing out that the typical potential new Defender owner is a lot more likely to want a diesel than any other vehicle they sell. My local dealer has sold a lot of diesel Discovery 5's and F-Pace jags.

Good point, imo your best bet is to email your local dealer contact asking them to pass onto head office, also email head office direct with request to pass on as feedback.

Start a thread on here, get numbers saying yes, start a change.org or petition, email it through.

I would be pretty surprised if you don't get the 3 L straight 6 diesel.

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[DieselRanger]

I would be pretty surprised if you don't get the 3 L straight 6 diesel.

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Unfortunately, it's not entirely up to either customer clamoring or Land Rover's good will. The EPA, and more importantly, California Air Resources Board, have far more say in what engines are offered for sale in what vehicles in the US.

 

[blackangie]

Hybrid diesel will be an option if all else fails

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[DieselRanger]

Hybrid diesel will be an option if all else fails

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Small diversion for a bit: Unfortunately the Democratic People's Republic of California hates diesels. They even want to ban them from non-highway vehicles like farm tractors and construction vehicles.

What's worse is that 17 or 18 other states (might be over 20 now? Too lazy to Google it at the moment...) have adopted California's emissions standards wholesale, which are more strict than the US EPA standards. And that means if you want to sell a car in America, you have to meet the standards dictated by one state. And for a small automaker with centralized production, if you want to sell a car worldwide at any kind of volume, you have to build at least a modular emissions system that allows you to configure it on the production line, and that's expensive. So often times you design emissions to meet the strictest of your markets that's worth selling in - so if you want to sell a diesel in America, and the rest of the world, that means California is driving what your choices are.

Whatever you might think of our current Tweeter-in-Chief, he has forced that issue into the courts recently, and I for one hope it forces California's regulators back inside their borders.

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[mpinco]

I was thinking that if enough of us prospective new Defender owners email landroverusa.com telling them that we really want the diesels here it might make them consider it. I responded back to one of the updates the company sends me pointing out that the typical potential new Defender owner is a lot more likely to want a diesel than any other vehicle they sell. My local dealer has sold a lot of diesel Discovery 5's and F-Pace jags.

I told my dealer we would not consider the current Luxury Defender because of the limited engine options, a 2.0L (too small) and the MHEV petrol (too complex). They quietly told me a diesel should be coming but no specifics. Hopefully that makes it back to JLRNA.

 

[mpinco]

Small diversion for a bit: Unfortunately the Democratic People's Republic of California hates diesels. They even want to ban them from non-highway vehicles like farm tractors and construction vehicles.

What's worse is that 17 or 18 other states (might be over 20 now? Too lazy to Google it at the moment...) have adopted California's emissions standards wholesale, which are more strict than the US EPA standards. And that means if you want to sell a car in America, you have to meet the standards dictated by one state. And for a small automaker with centralized production, if you want to sell a car worldwide at any kind of volume, you have to build at least a modular emissions system that allows you to configure it on the production line, and that's expensive. So often times you design emissions to meet the strictest of your markets that's worth selling in - so if you want to sell a diesel in America, and the rest of the world, that means California is driving what your choices are.

Whatever you might think of our current Tweeter-in-Chief, he has forced that issue into the courts recently, and I for one hope it forces California's regulators back inside their borders.

Agreed.

 

[jmodz]

There are articles written in July about NA getting the straight 6 diesel in 2021. They were of course written before the September unveil. However nothing since then has come out to suggest those plans have changed. Personally I’m waiting until the 90, diesel, and plug in hybrid are released until I make my decision. The good news on that front is the article that Blackangie posted said that the 90 pricing will be released at the LA auto show, which is during thanksgiving week. So I’m super excited for that!

 

[mpinco]

Hybrid diesel will be an option if all else fails

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As already discussed that would not be a desirable option. The MHEV petrol is already very complex and expensive. A MHEV diesel would be of similar complexity to the MHEV petrol, at even higher cost.

 

[blackangie]

Small diversion for a bit: Unfortunately the Democratic People's Republic of California hates diesels. They even want to ban them from non-highway vehicles like farm tractors and construction vehicles.

What's worse is that 17 or 18 other states (might be over 20 now? Too lazy to Google it at the moment...) have adopted California's emissions standards wholesale, which are more strict than the US EPA standards. And that means if you want to sell a car in America, you have to meet the standards dictated by one state. And for a small automaker with centralized production, if you want to sell a car worldwide at any kind of volume, you have to build at least a modular emissions system that allows you to configure it on the production line, and that's expensive. So often times you design emissions to meet the strictest of your markets that's worth selling in - so if you want to sell a diesel in America, and the rest of the world, that means California is driving what your choices are.

Whatever you might think of our current Tweeter-in-Chief, he has forced that issue into the courts recently, and I for one hope it forces California's regulators back inside their borders.

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Taking this further, why do you want a diesel and why is the p400 not engine of choice?

Modern diesels are far from non complex

 

[JackW]

The range and torque of a diesel make it desirable - and premium fuel is more expensive than diesel by about ten cents a gallon. The six cylinder non-MHEV may be an acceptable option if Californistan is successful in killing the evil diesel in this country.
But we don't want the added complexity of the 48V auxiliary system that is part of the MHEV system. I really like my diesels and hate that after we finally get some back in the USA we may lose the opportunity to buy them because of freaking California...

 

[DieselRanger]

Taking this further, why do you want a diesel and why is the p400 not engine of choice?

Modern diesels are far from non complex

I LOVE my turbodiesel. My Touareg was a beast, and the Disco with the Td6 is even better. I love the range, efficiency, and the effortless low end torque. I love the sound. I drive often above 10,000 feet MSL, and almost all of my off-roading is above 10,000 feet. It just goes up there, and it feels unstoppable. I feel like a MHEV will eventually become a standard turbo-4 down on power and torque on a extended low-speed overland where the MHEV battery can't regen enough - until you find a downhill of sufficient steepness and duration, and another, and another.

My fears may be unfounded, but I think if it was between the P400 and a butter-smooth inline 6 turbodiesel with ~300hp /~500lb-ft, I'd take the turbodiesel every time. If no turbodiesel, I'd take the P400 and probably not look back.



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[blackangie]

I LOVE my turbodiesel. My Touareg was a beast, and the Disco with the Td6 is even better. I love the range, efficiency, and the effortless low end torque. I love the sound. I drive often above 10,000 feet MSL, and almost all of my off-roading is above 10,000 feet. It just goes up there, and it feels unstoppable. I feel like a MHEV will eventually become a standard turbo-4 down on power and torque on a extended low-speed overland where the MHEV battery can't regen enough - until you find a downhill of sufficient steepness and duration, and another, and another.

My fears may be unfounded, but I think if it was between the P400 and a butter-smooth inline 6 turbodiesel with ~300hp /~500lb-ft, I'd take the turbodiesel every time. If no turbodiesel, I'd take the P400 and probably not look back.



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Fair enough, although a 3L straight 6 will not be gutless with a turbo, even without the MHEV
In Australia anything with DPF has a bad name at the moment especially toyotas, LR seem to have avoided the drama with Adblue. Have you experienced LRs system?

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[DieselRanger]

Fair enough, although a 3L straight 6 will not be gutless with a turbo, even without the MHEV
In Australia anything with DPF has a bad name at the moment especially toyotas, LR seem to have avoided the drama with Adblue. Have you experienced LRs system?

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I drive one right now. The Td6 has a DPF and SCR. It guzzles the AdBlue - I get maybe 5,000 miles out of a tank. But it's cheap and ubiquitous here, and it's easy to fill in the D5. Much easier to fill than it was in the Touareg, which also had a DPF and SCR system, though apparently it didn't use the SCR system all that much if West Virginia University is to be believed. I'll gladly take refilling AdBlue in trade for not having to replace spark plugs and cables and PCVs even though that's nowhere near as frequent.

The extra torque in the P400 MHEV comes from the electric motor. If that system runs low on battery because it can't regenerate, then the difference will likely be noticeable. Not gutless as you say, but noticeable, especially in low-speed high-load situations like climbing in low range, where it will provide the most benefit.

To be fair, I'm sure LR has tested it to the bejeezus, well into that scenario, and you'll get through what you need to and get home just fine. And if it's my only choice - well, we're Costco members and I'm retired Air Force so I can get cheap Premium fuel when I want to.


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[Victory_Overland]

Because I have a bit more time on my side these days, I decided to do a little Defender 110 Configurations. Many of you may know I am considering the Petrol 2.0 4cyl due to the $12k cost of the Petrol 6cyl and almost no hope the TD6 coming to the NAS market.

Keeping in mine, I am gambling that if I was to order a new Defender 110, by the time it arrives there would most likely be a year of deliveries and hopefully some aftermarket components and if not I will do what I do and make custom.

With that said, I configured this Defender with the budget build in mind and cost savings on aftermarket over JLR factory components and options. I did not include any notes that are identical to spec from the 4cyl to the 6cyl upgrade such as interior size, etc.

In GREEN you will find upgrades I feel are going to be a necessity as they may be specific only to my ordering option at the time and not avail later on.
In ORANGE you will find upgrades/SPECS in which I feel are indecisive and keeping me from ordering; just need more information
In RED you will find upgrades in which I feel I can probably get away with DELETING to spare some further cost but I may loose some items I would like in the future and make transit and potential DD use more comfortable; some can be DELETED as their is likely to be aftermarket components or custom options available by distributors or myself.

Again the idea is a budget configured D110 sparing as much factory up-charge.

As you can see, no frills configuration and no roof rack; I have no doubt I can get a Rhino Rack or FR rack on there with custom feet so it's not really even a slight discussion unless for some reason people think the expedition/safari box is attached to the rack and necessary? For some reason the custom brochure did not put the pics of the side touring box but it is in the cost. Off-Road tires, steelies, no rack (aftermarket), no snorkel (aftermarket), no spare cover (cuz why?).

I am curious to see what everyone thinks of the analog gauge option over the interactive display as it doesn't say anything and its a zero cost item; pick either or!



1) I could ditch the black roof but I think I will keep that for sure; $870 upgrade I could always wrap the white roof but the cost would most likely be comparable so I decided it is an option I would keep.

2) Obviously the terrain PACKS and LOCKERS need to stay but the Driver's Assist for $1275.00 could be DELETED. I have driven with Adaptive Cruise and I really like it for long trips on the open road. Again, that could be another saver to get me under $60K but we shall see thoughts on this.


Here are where I started deciding whether or not I actually need these items as the aftermarket community (Lucky8) and custom options may be available for better and cheaper options. Curious to everyone's thoughts in this area? Overall OPTIONS totaling $5305.00.

3) 3 Zone Climate Control adds a bunch of comfort to the overall vehicle and that of the back with filtration; but is it necessary; it requires the $175 in filters and although they are in there for quite a while, it's overall maintenance cost in the long run as well? $1250.00

4) $2767.00 in underbody protection. Not saying they obviously do not work as the testing shows it but damn......DAMN $2767.00 and that does not include sliders as they do not exist yet.

5) Wheel arch protection is staying; no brainer here and I eat the cost.

6) Mud flaps at $214.00 front and back; might be able to get some sweet aftermarket old school D110 that are better.

7) $154.00 D110 hood blackout; not required but nice touch for the new D110 style and I'll be honest, it will get a hood blackout no matter what its just that I paid $90 for mine on the LR3 so I can assume I can make one fit or go custom for cheaper.

8) Sunshade $67 at this point its a wrap, that's cheap for a perfectly fit one.

9) $974.00 for the Safari Box set-up. If JLR can mount one on the side, that means custom applications would be there and might offer better sourcing. From what I can see, it's only one box on one side but I saw all the promos with a box on each side so can someone clarify if they know?????


10) NO PUBLISHED FUEL ECONOMY for the 4cyl really bugs me and tells me they either do not want to release it or they are not sure what this thing really gets due to lack of testing; if lack of long term testing, it scares me a bit to see where the other actual performance numbers are coming from outside of the engine stand. It's possible the numbers are really good and they may not be releasing them because it might draw from the massive $12k 6cyl up-charge and put more people in my think-tank on the 4cyl. Right now, I have only seen a few people say they are going with the 4 banger so more proven numbers on the engine might draw numbers from huge profits on the 6cyl; just my two cents.

11) I put the ENGINE CHOICE in ORANGE because it is really a decision process I have not decided on due to the lack of data and reviews out there. The caveat is the 4cyl may perform just as good and if not better than comparable 4cyl engines such as other OEMS are now producing with staggering performance data; again, TBD on that.

12) Weights are highlighted in ORANGE because they are obviously diminished compared to the $12k 6cyl.



In the end, shaving all of the components off that MIGHT be available or customizable would shave off quite a bit. I didn't put the destination charge on the second column but it's in the math.

TOTAL: $7576.00 reduction in upgrades and comfort putting the final price at roughly $55k before tax, tags, title, and anything else Cali puts on me then.

Let's see where this goes with the thought process from others.