New to the LR World

[ADVNOMAD]

My wife and I are looking for our next adventure rig. We have had many Jeeps in lots of forms over the years. Maybe looking in a different direction this time(comfort). Went to Autotrader and for the heck of it typed in Land Rover. Interesting that I found a lot of 98-04 DII's with some very modest prices compared to other daily driver slash weekend overland platforms. They almost seem affordable or in our price range anyway. Most of the lower price range ads show less than 150K mileage too.

Why is that?

I'm not an ace mechanic but I haven't shied away from a complete 98 XJ Cherokee full on OME build either.

 

[David Harris]

The Discovery II's have a reputation for poor reliability, especially the engines, which are known to have slipped liner issues from 99-04, and the electronics (traction control, abs, etc.). So the prices are low. In reality, some vehicles are good, while others are lemons, depending on service history and shear luck on the day it was built. If you want one of these buy low and spend the rest on maintenance to bring it up to par. Being a mechanic or willing to become one is essential in owning most LR's unless you have a lot of money to have someone else fix it. This is the price for owning the best 4x4 in the world.

BTW: The earlier Discovery's (94-99.5) and the RRC are simpler and more reliable than the Discovery II's. Also definitely take a look at the newer LR3/4's. Prices are coming down, and while they are much more electronic dependent, they have pretty good reliability records.

 

[ADVNOMAD]

Thanks for the heads up on the early Discovery info. What are the options and cost range of a high mileage engine rebuild? Seems like that would be my major concern.

 

[David Harris]

Thanks for the heads up on the early Discovery info. What are the options and cost range of a high mileage engine rebuild? Seems like that would be my major concern.

Actually, one of the best ways to get into a D2 is to buy one which already has a blown engine for about 1000.00 and then put a used or brand new engine in. I bought a very clean 99 like this and then installed a good used long block from an earlier Discovery (97) along with the rest of the components from the original engine. New head gaskets, camshaft, timing, etc while I was at it. Altogether I had a nice running D2 for 2200.00. The best long term solution is to by a rebuilt engine from someone like Cannibal V8 or Atlantic British, who installs improved top hat cylinder liners along with new everything else. This type of build permanently solves the weakness of the engine and your good to go for the foreseeable future. Several thousand for the engine this case though. If I were to do it again, I would still just go the used engine route using a tested D1 engine block, which are much more reliable than the later ones and do a top end rebuild as before. This should easily go another 100K or more without problem. Remember the 03 and 04 D2's have a 4.6L engine versus the 4.0L in earlier ones, which is a definite upgrade, but means higher engine replacement cost as well. The 03 and 04 also have factory locking transfer cases which is a plus.

David

 

[ADVNOMAD]

HHMMM. Got me really thinking now. Can't stand to leave it alone and look like all the other cookie cutter 4bys. Now that we're getting older and maybe looking at our last off road rig.......
Really like the white Discovery in the BajaRack ads.

 

[Mack73]

The 03 and 04 also have factory locking transfer cases which is a plus.
David

Only the '04 has one from the factory. 99-01.5 has the hardware in the transfer case but is missing the shifter with a lock (late 01 - 03 do not have a locking transfer case)

All DI's have a locking transfer case.

 

[Nelson Santiago]

Find a '99 D2 with bad engine and get a 4.6 from a P38.

 

[David Harris]

Only the '04 has one from the factory. 99-01.5 has the hardware in the transfer case but is missing the shifter with a lock (late 01 - 03 do not have a locking transfer case)

All DI's have a locking transfer case.

Thanks for the correction. Also, if the D2 is nice otherwise but is a year without the locking transfer case, then you can just add one from a D1/2 with the linkage for about 200.00 or so without labor to install.

 

[TRIARII]

I have a 2004 Disco 2 with 146,000 miles and still running strong. Original head gaskets, original engine and I live in New England. Lots of horror stories about the D2 but the moral to the story is neglect and poor maintenance by the owners led to most of the problems associated with these trucks. If your brake pads get to thin, change them out. Some people wait until the pad gets SO THIN then you hear metal to metal grinding and before long you are haunted by 4 warning lights in the dash (3 amigos), then you bring it to a shop and pay outrages price to have the system diagnosed and have your brakes done then you go home and complain about how unreliable the truck is.

Change your oil every 3,000 miles, follow all the basic routine maintenance recommendations and your potential D2 will be as good as any. When you consider getting any Land Rover, ask yourself how much time and money you are willing to invest to keep your truck in good working condition. New parts for these vehicles can be purchased alot cheaper than the dealership prices thanks to some dedicated after market companies who cater specifically to Land Rovers. It all comes down to you. If your the type who does not want to get your hands dirty, or you dont keep track of your oil changes then you should not get a D2 or any other Rover for that matter. Im a senior member on landroverforums.com and i can tell you that most of the D2 owners there are NOT rich, their wallets are not fat yet they manage to drive their Disco's day in and day out. Some of them even managed to put over 200k on them and they still keep going. Why? because they kept up with the maintenance, changed the oil often and they do most all the mechanical work themselves and save tons of money. You dont have to be rich to own older Land Rover, you just need to be smart, resourceful and dedicated.

Good luck

 

[TRIARII]

and if you are going to buy a older Rover or potentially a Disco 2, dont find one with a blown engine because youll be stuck putting more money into the truck to soon, perhaps more than its worth by that point. Instead take your time searching, to rush into the first vehicle you find, even if the price is good. May be cheap now but if the truck was not properly maintained then you will pay for it down the road. Seek out Rovers for whom the owners kept extensive service records. Any truck that had the water pump and head gaskets already replaced is both a blessing and a curse. If the truck had a history of overheating then there could be bigger problems down the road with the engine. If they truck was shut off immediately once the truck started overheating and the issue was properly addressed then it would be a big bonus for you. So when you look over the truck, consider bring it to a local shop and get a compression test done. Find out what condition the head gaskets are in. Next examine the front drive shaft. The old one is a defective part becasue its not serviceable, so learn weather it was replaced or not, if not replace it. Next inspect the abs lines for any signs of wear, next check the wheel hubs. Finally get a code reader that can read both abs and check engine codes and hook it up and see if there are any saved but deleted codes in the system. If everything checks out and there are extensive service records then you have yourself a dam good truck.

Dont waste your money and time on a vehicle with a blown engine unless you are really that desperate for a project vehicle. Just find a good truck and dont worry about it.

 

[proper4wd]

I will interject that replacing an engine does not make a DII a "project vehicle". The engine swap can be completed in a day... hardly a project. It's a repair.

 

[TRIARII]

Thats assuming the new owner has a engine hoist and all the additional specialized tools, plus all the standard tools PLUS the advanced mechanical know how to remove the bad engine and install the new engine. For most average joe DIY'ers a simple job takes a entire weekend, I doubt an engine replacement couple be done without complications and in a day unless you have one hell of a shop and all the resources.

Again I argue that most people probably do not have the experience nor desire to do an engine swap. If you can do it than kudos though.

 

[David Harris]

The thing with D2's is that you can have one with perfect service records, runs perfectly, and checks out with tests and it can still blow up in short order. It's just really hard to tell with Rover V8's of that vintage. The one I bought with a blown engine checked out completely and was serviced to the letter at the dealer before it self-destructed with no warning. If I were looking for one in running condition, I would go with a higher mileage one that's running well, because the odds are that one has a good block. Some of the Rover V8's of the D2 years blew at 25K miles or so. That's how unpredictable they are. That's why it's good to buy a 1000.00 truck and put an earlier block into it, rebuilding the top end while your at it. Then you have a more known quantity for fewer dollars in the end.

 

[TRIARII]

The debate over the Rover V8 is just that..... a debate. Many folks swear up and down that the Rover v8 is cursed and that the defects are in the engine itself. Meanwhile Ive had arguments supporting this claim with a couple mechanics who have been working on Land Rovers since before I was born, and they seem to stand behind the Rover V8, stating that the engine was used by drag racing cars back in the day and also used in many other vehicles and thus a popular engine. They go on to say that more often times than not any engine issues were human error. IE: not changing oil on time, not topping off engine oil, not changing the coolant every 2-3 years etc. The guy says in all his years of working with these vehicles he has only seen one defective Rover v8. He went further to say that hes worked at a couple dealerships before and some of the mechanics employed are not doing a good job. So it seems that nobody can agree on the debate.

 

[David Harris]

The debate over the Rover V8 is just that..... a debate. Many folks swear up and down that the Rover v8 is cursed and that the defects are in the engine itself. Meanwhile Ive had arguments supporting this claim with a couple mechanics who have been working on Land Rovers since before I was born, and they seem to stand behind the Rover V8, stating that the engine was used by drag racing cars back in the day and also used in many other vehicles and thus a popular engine. They go on to say that more often times than not any engine issues were human error. IE: not changing oil on time, not topping off engine oil, not changing the coolant every 2-3 years etc. The guy says in all his years of working with these vehicles he has only seen one defective Rover v8. He went further to say that hes worked at a couple dealerships before and some of the mechanics employed are not doing a good job. So it seems that nobody can agree on the debate.

The reason there is a debate on this is that some engines are good and some aren't, sending mixed messages on its reliability. This is down to variable build quality on the part of Land Rover, compounded by the fact that the company has changed owners a few times in recent decades. For example, when BMW took over they invested in the company at first, and then started putting in as little as possible into the 2000's on their way out. This may explain why the build quality went down during the time of the D2. Others say that the block problem was down to factory tooling which was getting pretty long in the tooth after being used since the 1960's. The fact is that many more D2's have engine problems than the earlier trucks, so unless owners all of the sudden started maintaining their trucks less well beginning with the D2, something else is going on. Maintenance does not explain why some factory engines blew at 25,000 miles.

PS: I really like the Rover V8 and believe that if built well and maintained well, it will perform and last for a long time, as proven by many owners with well over 200K and even over 300K on some.