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Jsweezy

Explorer
Nice work! I love sound deadening...

Btw that MLV you got from your local place looks exactly like the stuff MG recommended from Cascade. Cascade also has a website under zeronoise.com that I left the link to after you asked about how to make the 7.3 quieter. They sell most of their stuff online there except for the bigger stuff.
 
As said above stainless on stainless galls, it just does. You can slow down and be very careful and it may still gall. The best solution I've found is anti seize. We use a ton of stainless at work and never have an issue as long as we use anti seize.
 

mothgils

Member
And if you have advice on why the stainless would gaul - let me know. I'd hate to have to go back to steel but I know I wouldn't have that problem. I'm guessing I should have just put antisieze on them and it would have been fine.

Gregor

Gregor

Stainless on Stainless will almost always gaul up. At my shop (jobshop - sheet metal fab/welding) we manufacture our own line of basketball goals (shameless plug - http://aegoals.com ). Anyway, we have always used stainless on stainless and have had issues. My local installer actually found that 3M spray adhesive on the threads would prevent them from seizing. Don't ask me why or how it does but I guarantee you it works like a charm! We have been looking into different types of hardware to correct the issue.

What kind of nuts are you using? Nylock? If so, we were researching/testing various ss nylock nuts (regular vs waxed, import vs domestic) and most all had the same issues. When they install the nylock ring, it usually damages the first thread so when you get to the damaged thread, it seizes.
 

brianjwilson

Some sort of lost...
There are a number of lubricants for stainless fasteners that definitely help. A couple important tips are to go slow (install by hand), lubricate threads, use the shortest practical bolt, don't over tighten. Nylon lock nuts can especially be troublesome because the extra friction can cause excessive heat when installing. Then, it is especially important to use as few threads as needed, thread on slow and use lubricant. I used a product called sea lube a lot on my sailboat hardware, which is advertised for stainless steel turnbuckles under a high load and frequently adjusted.
 

sakurama

Adventurer
Okay, so it turns out I was doing everything wrong on the stainless front. I bought bolts too long because I wasn't sure if I'd need the length, I didn't use any lubricant and I was impatient and tried to drive them with a drill. Three strikes and your out.

It has been raining the last week and the thought of laying in a muddy driveway fighting with hardware wasn't appealing. I finished up my photo work and the 1/2" solid rubber exercise mats I ordered showed up.

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When four mats show up in a box truck with a lift gate on their own pallet, well, you know they're not light.

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Determined to not repeat my mistake we cut bolts shorter with a hacksaw and then dressed the ends on the belt sander and the scotchbrite wheel.

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I considered trying the spray adhesive suggestion but figured I'd try my standby anti-seize. I've had this container for 20 years at least and it's nice to know I'll be able to hand it down to my kids when they start a stainless project.

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This mat is what MG recommended (NW Rubber Stamina Exercise Mat)and it's the heavy solid rubber mats that you'd see in a weightlifting room. It's closed cell around a lead core. Okay, the lead core I'm not sure about but it seems like it. Each 4x6 matt weighs in at nearly 70lbs - it's a lot more than a sheet of plywood. I gathered up a bunch of measuring tools and my handy Festool track saw because I wanted the cuts to be perfect and not as wonky as the ones I did on the MLV underneath.

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Let me save you some trouble - you can't cut rubber mats with a saw. It's just too soft and while, perhaps, a more coarse blade would have helped it was clear that this wasn't the way to cut this stuff. Saws create heat and rubber doesn't like heat.

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This is how you cut this stuff. With a fresh blade in your utility knife. The key to cutting them is to use a straightedge and to make your first pass with the knife lightly and solidly against your straightedge. Don't get cocky and try to go deep or fast because your first cut is the path for the entire cut. Once you've run one pass with the straightedge you can pull it away and keep making light passes in the same cut.

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It's helpful after the first pass to let your mat hang off the cutting table at the cut line so it's weight is trying to open the cut up. After this you just keep making light passes and the material just sort of opens up - exactly like cutting whale blubber. What? You don't cut whale blubber? Okay, so my sister is a marine biologist and that may not be helpful to you but somewhere out there another van owning marine biologist is slapping his forehead saying, "Oh my god- exactly!"

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On to measuring!

I switch between metric and imperial units the way a NYC cabbie switches between gas and brake - with total disregard for your comfort. If I'm explaining a size I'll use feet, if I'm trying to measure something small I'll use millimeters. Especially if I'm going to need to add or subtract them. If I am working on the lathe or mill I may go back to tenths, hundreds and thou. Getting this mat in right required mm's...

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...and a marine biologist familiar with cutting whale blubber. So let's just say this is an above average difficulty project. The 1/2" this mat sits just slightly below the tracks - like maybe 1mm or a 1/16th. I'm just messing with you - it's about 80 thou.

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Pencil worked great for marking and the wheel wells taper in a 7° or so and the corners are about as round as my Starrett angle gauge. You use what's at hand.

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And then I looked around for some weights that I could use to test the installation. All I could find was a set of 50lbs dumbbells.

I think that MG designed this set of floor plates as his first ones and the tracks are probably spaced for his interior builds. I think I'd like to have them centered to assuage my OCD as I was hoping I might be able to flip one of the seats to get it to face backwards so we could have a nice dinette situation. For now I need to make up a way to secure the seat tracks to a horizontal fixture piece that I can then put into the track. That's tomorrow. It has to be done tomorrow because my first race of the season is Sunday.

Gregor
 
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mgmetalworks

Explorer
I think that MG designed this set of floor plates as his first ones and the tracks are probably spaced for his interior builds. I think I'd like to have them centered to assuage my OCD....

Gregor

Blame Ford... the spacing of the track is based on the peaks and valleys in the floor. The weld nuts on the bottom had to be in the valleys and the two plates come together at a peak. I wanted it perfectly centered too but then the Ltrack spacing would have been weird. On the other hand, the floor of the van is so thin that one could just turn a peak into a valley with hammer. ;-)

Floor looks great! I think you'll like the rubber for your usage model. It has been holding up well to our "hauling kids to school and then go pick up loads of laser cut metal" routine.
 

sakurama

Adventurer
Blame Ford... the spacing of the track is based on the peaks and valleys in the floor. The weld nuts on the bottom had to be in the valleys and the two plates come together at a peak. I wanted it perfectly centered too but then the Ltrack spacing would have been weird. On the other hand, the floor of the van is so thin that one could just turn a peak into a valley with hammer. ;-)

Floor looks great! I think you'll like the rubber for your usage model. It has been holding up well to our "hauling kids to school and then go pick up loads of laser cut metal" routine.

Funny. Now you say that and I look at the last photo and see that the tracks line up perfectly with the valley. I can't see the forrest through the trees. Yes, I'm surprised at how thin the sheet metal is. It's worked out well when there was a high spot or the fender well bulged, "Hmm, it's 80mm, 80mm, 86mm, 80mm, 80mm... where's the mallet?"

Taylor dropped by the other day and we were talking about how much quieter you can get these vans with this treatment system. It's quite obvious now that all the sound is coming from the front of the van - the back is dead quiet. I doubt I'll have time today but I'm going to try to pull the front floor mats and Rattletrap the whole thing. Same with the doors in back. It's all such low hanging fruit that it's crazy to not do this. Even my sister was saying that she'd like to pull the mats on her Forerunner and do the floors.

So we're quieter but still have a ways to go. Seats go in today. Well, one seat at least.

Onward!

Gregor
 

sakurama

Adventurer
So Saturday was a mad rush to get the van ready for my first race of the season. I mean, we could have taken the pickup truck but why would we want to do that when we have the van? Oh, right because we don't have any seats in the back yet.

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For the tricky sides I made cardboard templates and transferred the measurements to the rubber being as careful as I could because this stuff is tough to cut and I didn't want to screw up and have to remake any section.

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Meanwhile Lara stuffed the back doors with some R18 I had for a home project and then Rattletrapped the inside and outside skins of the doors. I don't know that it made any difference to the overall sound deadening but holy cow are the doors solid sounding now. It sounds like shutting the door of a Mercedes now... well, perhaps a Lincoln.

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I was using a piece of aluminum welding wire to hold the second smaller side door open and got frustrated with that and figured I could solve that pretty quickly. Scrap of 1/8" 6061 aluminum with dykem for marking...

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A six year old to run the lathe for the spacer of delrin...

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And now the door stays open... with style!

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And this is about as much as you'll see of me making the seat base for the Transit seats. Of course I didn't have any steel that would be appropriate for the bracket so I had to make a run to Metal Supermarkets and pick up some 1-1/4" by .25" (see how I mess with you?) cold rolled steel. It took me a while to come around to cold rolled but now that's all I want to use. I hate mill scale and grinding - I'll pay to not do it.

I'll try to get a shot of the bracket I made but it's pretty simple - I just welded the bar stock across the stock seat receiver. I quit taking photos because at 6pm I was still welding the seat bracket and I had to make dinner for the kids, get them packed for the day at the races, put them to bed and then do all the maintenance that my race bike needed: oil, filter and tires and then load everything because daylight savings meant we had to leave at 4am... oh, 5am now. I was overwhelmed.

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Which I guess is good for your head space as I got the hole shot and led the race but lost the front in a corner and ended up second. I found at the end of the race that I'd actually flatted but was using the Tubliss system and didn't really realize I was flat - I just thought the ground had been really chewed up and was soft. Nice that I didn't have to stop - that stuff works.

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So you can see the Transit seat in there, barely, but the new floor L-track is amazing! Changing the speaker box to give more clearance and now this floor have made this thing the perfect moto van. I got a few compliments at the track too. I have to say that I'm not sure I'll keep the Transit seats. They're really wide and you might notice in the photo above that the seatbelt pods on the top actually don't clear the sides. If my van didn't have the big windows they probably wouldn't fit and they don't fit between the windows. They're also incredibly heavy. One seat is probably twice what all the seats I removed were. But most of all I've gotten really used to having an isle to walk from front to back and that is impossible now - that seat takes up 100% of the width of the van.

I'll most likely leave it for now - maybe for the summer - and look for another option. Maybe stock Ford van seats... oh, right I'd need a seat with integrated belts. Maybe Sienna seats? Not sure what the options are but the track is a clear winner. Next week the van heads back to MG while I'm out of town so he can take a look at a couple of things and hopefully get the auto hubs working too.

Oh, and there was no additional sound attenuation with the rubber mat. I can hear the difference but what this tells me is that all the noise now is from the front of the van. The front floor panels are bare steel with a thin plastic floor mat and a few spots of insulation. The front floors are the next thing to be done. I'd like to actually put carpet in in place of the plastic. I feel like it would make the van a little more quiet and comfortable and I don't spill nearly as much as the kids. Does anyone know a good carpet kit for these vans?

Gregor
 

Raul

Adventurer
Oh, and there was no additional sound attenuation with the rubber mat. I can hear the difference but what this tells me is that all the noise now is from the front of the van. The front floor panels are bare steel with a thin plastic floor mat and a few spots of insulation. The front floors are the next thing to be done. I'd like to actually put carpet in in place of the plastic. I feel like it would make the van a little more quiet and comfortable and I don't spill nearly as much as the kids. Does anyone know a good carpet kit for these vans?

Gregor

I've used neoprene mats from Harbor Freight. I think it provides a decent noise and vibration dampening and very good thermal (both of my cats are under the passenger foot well and you can not feel the heat anymore. I had plywood on top of the neoprene in the back and just the neoprene and Home Depot outdoor carpet at front.
 

sakurama

Adventurer
Tubliss is amazing and so is this van. What class do you race?

I'm in 50 Am right now. Not sure if I want to do the whole season as I'm going to be spending time developing that BMW but it's a good excuse to get into shape and keep my riding sharp and on point.

That race was in Eddieville near Centerville, WA. Not a fan of MX tracks but it's mostly natural terrain. I never jumped as a kid so it's something I'm not entirely comfortable with. It was fun though.

In in other news MG has my van and is going to put some new, lower springs up front so my ride height is equal and hopefully get the vacuum hubs working. Provided it's all right next week we head to Colorado for spring break. I'm going to try to find a new set of wheels for the trip and see if I can improve mileage.

Gregor
 

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