24HOURSOFNEVADA
Expedition Leader
ChuckB said:
I'm not sure. I grabbed the pics because it was for sale and I really liked it.
Not your typical 80 ?, manual tranny involved...
- Thread starter ChuckB
- Start date
I'm not sure. I grabbed the pics because it was for sale and I really liked it.
Grease Cruiser
Adventurer
Chuck:
Here are my thoughts. First off, the 80 series never came with a H55F, they came with a H151. Slapping a H55F behind a 3FE is not going to happen. A 5 speed in an 80 series has to have the shifter WAY back there in order for it to not come out underneath the heater box. A NV4500 is a better option but depending on the application, you may still have problems with the shifter location.
I may get flamed here but I am not a big fan of the NV4500. It is a big, clunky transmission that is sometimes difficult to find 1st and reverse. Yes, they have great low end gearing but it is a truck transmission and drives like a truck transmission. They don't even compare to a H55F or a H151. If you put a NV4500 into an 80 series, you are taking one step backwards, imo.
Also, putting a 2F into a FJ80 is illegal. You will be hard pressed finding a shop to put this engine in for you. You think it may be hard to get a Cummins 4BT or a Toyota diesel to pass inspection, try getting a 2F in a FJ80 passed! Under Federal Law, the donor engine in any engine conversion must be of the same or greater technology of the engine that came out of the vehicle. Ie, no carburated engines being put into vehicles that originally had fuel injection.
A 3FE with a manual tranny really makes the 3FE come alive. We have done several swaps with 3FE's and H55F's into 40's and 60 series. They run great and return about 18mpg with a light foot.
We just finished up a 5.3L Vortec/4L60E conversion into a 1997 FZJ80 and it came out great. The owner is very pleased with it. It has plenty of power and gets 20+ miles to the gallon. We went with a FJ60 split case mated to the 4L60E using a Advanced Adapter. I have said it many times and I'll say it again, the 5.3L Vortec is the biggest bang for your buck when it comes to conversions into Land Cruisers. They get just about as good as mileage as a diesel, parts are readily available, and you have plenty of power and torque. This is coming from a person who owns 4 diesel Cruisers. When you run the #'s, right now it is cheaper to run a 5.3L Vortec powered Cruiser than it would be to run a diesel one. That is not taking into account running bio-fuels but just paying (paying out the nose of course) for your fuel.
Here is another thought:
If you are insisting on an 80 series with a 5 speed and leaning towards a V8, I would consider buying a 1991-1992. For one, they are cheaper. Two, if you get one with a good 3FE, you can always sell the 3FE to offset the cost of the conversion. We sell good running 3FE's for $1,000-$1,500 depending on the mileage. This would greatly help out considering the cost of the conversion. It would pay for a ARB rear locker and compressor.
That's all I have for now. Carry on.
Here are my thoughts. First off, the 80 series never came with a H55F, they came with a H151. Slapping a H55F behind a 3FE is not going to happen. A 5 speed in an 80 series has to have the shifter WAY back there in order for it to not come out underneath the heater box. A NV4500 is a better option but depending on the application, you may still have problems with the shifter location.
I may get flamed here but I am not a big fan of the NV4500. It is a big, clunky transmission that is sometimes difficult to find 1st and reverse. Yes, they have great low end gearing but it is a truck transmission and drives like a truck transmission. They don't even compare to a H55F or a H151. If you put a NV4500 into an 80 series, you are taking one step backwards, imo.
Also, putting a 2F into a FJ80 is illegal. You will be hard pressed finding a shop to put this engine in for you. You think it may be hard to get a Cummins 4BT or a Toyota diesel to pass inspection, try getting a 2F in a FJ80 passed! Under Federal Law, the donor engine in any engine conversion must be of the same or greater technology of the engine that came out of the vehicle. Ie, no carburated engines being put into vehicles that originally had fuel injection.
A 3FE with a manual tranny really makes the 3FE come alive. We have done several swaps with 3FE's and H55F's into 40's and 60 series. They run great and return about 18mpg with a light foot.
We just finished up a 5.3L Vortec/4L60E conversion into a 1997 FZJ80 and it came out great. The owner is very pleased with it. It has plenty of power and gets 20+ miles to the gallon. We went with a FJ60 split case mated to the 4L60E using a Advanced Adapter. I have said it many times and I'll say it again, the 5.3L Vortec is the biggest bang for your buck when it comes to conversions into Land Cruisers. They get just about as good as mileage as a diesel, parts are readily available, and you have plenty of power and torque. This is coming from a person who owns 4 diesel Cruisers. When you run the #'s, right now it is cheaper to run a 5.3L Vortec powered Cruiser than it would be to run a diesel one. That is not taking into account running bio-fuels but just paying (paying out the nose of course) for your fuel.
Here is another thought:
If you are insisting on an 80 series with a 5 speed and leaning towards a V8, I would consider buying a 1991-1992. For one, they are cheaper. Two, if you get one with a good 3FE, you can always sell the 3FE to offset the cost of the conversion. We sell good running 3FE's for $1,000-$1,500 depending on the mileage. This would greatly help out considering the cost of the conversion. It would pay for a ARB rear locker and compressor.
That's all I have for now. Carry on.
Grease Cruiser
Adventurer
Chuck,
Why don't we take that nice 55 of yours and put the body onto a FZJ80 frame and drivetrain?
We have a 1994 FZJ80 at the shop with 120K miles on it and no body. It's also quite cheap but no lockers.
One of the neatest rigs I have seen is a FJ60 body on a HZJ80 frame and drivetrain. A guy from Denver drove his 60 down to Panama in the early 90's. He wanted a diesel Cruiser so bad that he hung around in Panama waiting for the right Cruiser to come up. He found a HZJ80 that had been rolled. He the found a shop locally to transplant his 60 body onto the diesel 80. He then drove the 60 up to the states and had it in Denver for years until he sold it. He sold it about a year ago. It was very clean and really cool. The body needed a little attention as it had some rust spots forming.
You still have your 55 right? Why don't we just pimp your 55 out and make it a nice modern day daily driver?
You know how to get a hold of me if you want to discuss further.
John
Why don't we take that nice 55 of yours and put the body onto a FZJ80 frame and drivetrain?
We have a 1994 FZJ80 at the shop with 120K miles on it and no body. It's also quite cheap but no lockers.
One of the neatest rigs I have seen is a FJ60 body on a HZJ80 frame and drivetrain. A guy from Denver drove his 60 down to Panama in the early 90's. He wanted a diesel Cruiser so bad that he hung around in Panama waiting for the right Cruiser to come up. He found a HZJ80 that had been rolled. He the found a shop locally to transplant his 60 body onto the diesel 80. He then drove the 60 up to the states and had it in Denver for years until he sold it. He sold it about a year ago. It was very clean and really cool. The body needed a little attention as it had some rust spots forming.
You still have your 55 right? Why don't we just pimp your 55 out and make it a nice modern day daily driver?
You know how to get a hold of me if you want to discuss further.
John
ginericLC
Adventurer
Wow! Where do I start?
I'm in the beginning stages of dropping a 60 body on an 80 frame. I'm doing mine different than lowtideride did his on Mud. I'm keeping the Auto tranny, he switched to a 4 speed manual which I think was a mistake. If you want to go manual go with the h55f.
I also built a manual V8 FJ60 with a Ranger Underdrive and started with a h42, but went a h55f eventually. That tranny worked very well behind the 350TBI. At the same time I had two friends who also did V8 swaps in their 60s. One went with the NV4500 and the other with a 700r4 Auto. Out of the 3 the best performing on and off road was the auto. I definitely preferred driving my h55f over the NV4500. You can run through the gears in the h55f much quicker and more smoothly. The NV4500 is notchy and very much a big truck tranny. The one thing I learned from being around these conversions is that if it isn't broke don't fix it. Seriously, if you have a good drivetrain don't switch it. You will never get your investment back out of it.
I've also owned a couple of 80s, both FJs and FZJs. I don't think the FZJ really towed significantly better than the FJ. I pulled similar pop up style trailers with both of them. Both are pretty slow. They are not ideal tow rigs. If you are down to 40 mph in an FZJ80 going up a pass or you are down to 35mph in a FJ80 does it really matter? There were times when rock crawling that I definitely needed the extra HP of the FZJ over the FJ, but in everyday driving they did not really perform much different. The FZJ was a little lighter on fuel and when you pulled away from the stoplight you could feel the difference, but they would definitely be in the same class for performance, slow. The biggest plus to the FZJ over the FJ is the brakes. Rear disc brakes are a huge plus, especially after you add 35" tires and all that extra gear. I made a mistake when I bought my FZJ and did not wait for one with lockers. I later retrofitted factory lockers which worked well but it did take some time and money to do it. I'm a big fan of ARBs, however I do not like paying for them. If you think that you might want or need lockers some day buy one with lockers or budget at least 2500 to add them later.
The biggest problem with buying one with a bad motor is that the rest of the truck is going to be in pretty sorry shape. There are fewer and fewer 80s that are what I would consider good buys these days. The cheap ones are pretty ratty and need a lot of care to get them back up to snuff. The nice ones are way overpriced. I believe the 80 series to be the first LC model that people are actually wearing them out. Over time things like door hinges, seats, etc... wear out. Their ability to do so well off road and to drive so nice on the highway is what is killing them. People drive them and they are starting to wear them out. If you found one with a bad motor, you'd be probably be looking at interior upgrades, maybe paint (the clearcoat on a lot of 80s sucks), axle seals, etc... so don't just say, "I can build a motor and tranny for this much and then I'd have a rig that will last me a long time." I have a friend who even wore out a Cruise Control switch in his FJ80 because it has so many highway miles on it. Be prepared for those types of expenses. It might be better to start with a nice one to begin with? Maybe cheaper in the long run?
I've lusted over diesel Cruisers for years. I even owned a BJ60 for a short time. For a long time I thought a diesel 80 with a manual would be my dream truck. Now I'm thinking the auto would be just fine. I guess I'm getting older. But I also have found it to be more relaxing to concentrate on the road and steering wheel than having to shift too. And I can attend to my son, etc... without worrying about missing a gear, or get a drink, or take a photo while creeping forward.
The only place I see an advantage to a manual is in engine braking. Going down hills I wish the autos would hold back more with the engine.
Good luck!
I'm in the beginning stages of dropping a 60 body on an 80 frame. I'm doing mine different than lowtideride did his on Mud. I'm keeping the Auto tranny, he switched to a 4 speed manual which I think was a mistake. If you want to go manual go with the h55f.
I also built a manual V8 FJ60 with a Ranger Underdrive and started with a h42, but went a h55f eventually. That tranny worked very well behind the 350TBI. At the same time I had two friends who also did V8 swaps in their 60s. One went with the NV4500 and the other with a 700r4 Auto. Out of the 3 the best performing on and off road was the auto. I definitely preferred driving my h55f over the NV4500. You can run through the gears in the h55f much quicker and more smoothly. The NV4500 is notchy and very much a big truck tranny. The one thing I learned from being around these conversions is that if it isn't broke don't fix it. Seriously, if you have a good drivetrain don't switch it. You will never get your investment back out of it.
I've also owned a couple of 80s, both FJs and FZJs. I don't think the FZJ really towed significantly better than the FJ. I pulled similar pop up style trailers with both of them. Both are pretty slow. They are not ideal tow rigs. If you are down to 40 mph in an FZJ80 going up a pass or you are down to 35mph in a FJ80 does it really matter? There were times when rock crawling that I definitely needed the extra HP of the FZJ over the FJ, but in everyday driving they did not really perform much different. The FZJ was a little lighter on fuel and when you pulled away from the stoplight you could feel the difference, but they would definitely be in the same class for performance, slow. The biggest plus to the FZJ over the FJ is the brakes. Rear disc brakes are a huge plus, especially after you add 35" tires and all that extra gear. I made a mistake when I bought my FZJ and did not wait for one with lockers. I later retrofitted factory lockers which worked well but it did take some time and money to do it. I'm a big fan of ARBs, however I do not like paying for them. If you think that you might want or need lockers some day buy one with lockers or budget at least 2500 to add them later.
The biggest problem with buying one with a bad motor is that the rest of the truck is going to be in pretty sorry shape. There are fewer and fewer 80s that are what I would consider good buys these days. The cheap ones are pretty ratty and need a lot of care to get them back up to snuff. The nice ones are way overpriced. I believe the 80 series to be the first LC model that people are actually wearing them out. Over time things like door hinges, seats, etc... wear out. Their ability to do so well off road and to drive so nice on the highway is what is killing them. People drive them and they are starting to wear them out. If you found one with a bad motor, you'd be probably be looking at interior upgrades, maybe paint (the clearcoat on a lot of 80s sucks), axle seals, etc... so don't just say, "I can build a motor and tranny for this much and then I'd have a rig that will last me a long time." I have a friend who even wore out a Cruise Control switch in his FJ80 because it has so many highway miles on it. Be prepared for those types of expenses. It might be better to start with a nice one to begin with? Maybe cheaper in the long run?
I've lusted over diesel Cruisers for years. I even owned a BJ60 for a short time. For a long time I thought a diesel 80 with a manual would be my dream truck. Now I'm thinking the auto would be just fine. I guess I'm getting older. But I also have found it to be more relaxing to concentrate on the road and steering wheel than having to shift too. And I can attend to my son, etc... without worrying about missing a gear, or get a drink, or take a photo while creeping forward.
The only place I see an advantage to a manual is in engine braking. Going down hills I wish the autos would hold back more with the engine.
Good luck!
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
I put the H42 behind my 3FE and was very happy. H55F? ya'sure ya'betcha anyday but H42s are very common and they have a good match to the gear deltas in the auto.ginericLC said:
Agreed, never. BUT that statement may apply to most of what we do to our vehciles here. How many ice blocks can I buy for the cost of a fridge? Many hundreds but the fridge is still cool.
Agreed. The 3F-E has some very good torque properties, and you're correct when you are so low in speed the difference is little. I truly hesitate to say this but I like the 3F-E better off-road than the 1FZ-FE. I've driven my FZJ80 as well as my brother's FJ80 and (gasp) find his FJ80 to be better suited for the harder/technical trails.
It is also preferrable IMO in mountainous areas where you prefer a lower gear uphill with a light throttle where the auto will always choose the next gear up.
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dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
John you need to identify yourself and/or who you work for when posting 
Also you have PM Anyway, it comes to cost... I would say a 3FE to H55F would actually be an awesome combo. Again with that part time 4WD. I drove a FJ62 converted to manual and it was night and day over a FJ60 particularly in terms of power. If it were me I would to the 350, better mileage and power, mated to a H55F for smoothness. I also agree with John about the NV4500 after owning several myself. My '96 era standard duty Dodge NV4500 shifted well and smoothly, but the gearing range is really odd on these, like a 3 speed with an overdrive and an underdrive, not a smooth 5 speed.
The 350 gas engine (explore fuel injected only, I wouldn't bother with carburetted, even if it were legal) will set you back at least another $1000-2500 thought plus related parts (more complicated/expensive exhaust for example). But is probably the best setup if you have the $$. I forget the difference between the FJ62 3FEs and FJ80s 3FEs in bolt pattern (is there one?) If not, a H55F should go in there. I have heard of several people retrofitting FJ60 & such clutch mechanisms into 80s to yield manual transmissions. The 80 series hump is a little complex so it would require some ingenuity with fabrication/modification.
But it sure would be a cool setup...
Also you have PM Anyway, it comes to cost... I would say a 3FE to H55F would actually be an awesome combo. Again with that part time 4WD. I drove a FJ62 converted to manual and it was night and day over a FJ60 particularly in terms of power. If it were me I would to the 350, better mileage and power, mated to a H55F for smoothness. I also agree with John about the NV4500 after owning several myself. My '96 era standard duty Dodge NV4500 shifted well and smoothly, but the gearing range is really odd on these, like a 3 speed with an overdrive and an underdrive, not a smooth 5 speed.The 350 gas engine (explore fuel injected only, I wouldn't bother with carburetted, even if it were legal) will set you back at least another $1000-2500 thought plus related parts (more complicated/expensive exhaust for example). But is probably the best setup if you have the $$. I forget the difference between the FJ62 3FEs and FJ80s 3FEs in bolt pattern (is there one?) If not, a H55F should go in there. I have heard of several people retrofitting FJ60 & such clutch mechanisms into 80s to yield manual transmissions. The 80 series hump is a little complex so it would require some ingenuity with fabrication/modification.
But it sure would be a cool setup...
Grease Cruiser
Adventurer
dieselcruiserhead said:John you need to identify yourself and/or who you work for when posting
QUOTE]
Hi, my name is John...... and I'm a Land Cruiser addict. I work for Proffitt's Cruisers, a cutom Toyota Land Cruiser shop in Western Colorado. We do some cool stuff to Cruisers. Check us out at:
www.proffittscruisers.com
Whew, that feels better to get that off my chest! Just kidding.
Dre, can't wait to see the new additions to the website. Really looking forward to it.
Chuck: Sorry about the hijack. Hijack officially over.
ChuckB
Expedition Leader
I forgot to mention in my original post that this whole thing came about because I'm cruiser-sitting my brother's '97 FZJ80 CE (w/lockers ) It's acting as my DD right now.
He has 285's on and everything else is stock. How much is the odometer off? I want to try and figure the mpg's I'm getting right now.
) It's acting as my DD right now. He has 285's on and everything else is stock. How much is the odometer off? I want to try and figure the mpg's I'm getting right now.