OJ, Hanson philosophy & originality with the D2

[Z O O R O P A]

Hi folks,

After reading OJ's 09 Gear editorial and following Scott's never ending love affair with his envious Disco, I began to wonder what might come of some meaningful discussion on approaching a D2 with the same spirit and sense. Improving upon a good foundation to increase longevity, suit your lifestyle needs, and correct potentially weak manufacture designs.

So a request to those of you who possess the intricate mechanical knowledge of the last and highly desired 2004 D2 model - what do you improve upon using the same methodology while attempting to preserve the integrity of a daily driver/adventure vehicle? The goal is to attain maximum performance without turning the vehicle into a pig. LRs are very capable machines straight off the line. Keeping the vehicle close to factory specs by not adding super swampers etc saves you money in the long run and retains the aesthetics

suspension?
tire size that is practical but effective?
electronics, batteries, wiring, etc
comfort?
drive train, gearing, etc

Looking forward to your wisdom and ideas. This is certainly in part an interpretation of personal choice so please - there is no real right and wrong, just experience and perhaps more choice mechanics to increase versatility, durability, and longevity

thanks!

d=(^^)z

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Not sure if I fully understand the question you're asking, but here's my take:

A lot of discussion is made about the D2's being unreliable because electricery, but so far I've found it to be anything but the case. To start with, I've done countless water crossings such as in my avatar, and some number much deeper than that, with no problems, and no preparation at all. While it is true there are more electronics on the vehicle, it's also true that the electrical technology, and in particular the connectors, are more reliable than before. From what I've gathered, carry a spare crank position sensor and know how to change it. Go through your truck and put dielectric grease in all the connectors. Yes, the SLABS unit could fail (three amigos) but this leaves you no worse off than if you didn't have it in the first place.

The only lingering terror I have is getting stuck in water over the floor pan, which will come in, and the body control computer is under the driver's seat. Something needs to be done about this. There are 3 more computers behind the passenger kick panel, which are a little better off, but something needs to be done there too.

I recently witnessed JK Rubicon get stuck in water which was over the glove box lid for 2 hours. After recovering him, the truck drove out under it's own power, but did suffer damage to the passenger airbag module, electric cooling fan, alternator and a cell phone. Not too bad in the grand scheme of things.

I've found the venting on the headlights to be a problem. There are 3 vents for 1 chamber, which allows the water to siphon in. I plan on running breather lines, or at the least plugging two out of the three vents on each light. Just one minor detail. The breathers for all the fluids also need to be extended.

I've swapped in an Odyssey PC2150 battery as a simple major upgrade to the stock system. It's easy, completely uncomplicated technically, and increases the electrical reliability greatly. However, with a single battery system you do still run the risk of having a dead battery. I will likely work in a small backup battery, something like a PC680 which I have proven is more than capable of starting and running the truck, and is easier to install somewhere than a large battery, with a simple manual transfer switch.

The CV joints on the front driveshaft get a lot of criticism. It's true they are prone to failure without warning with disastrous results. Either change them out for greasable units, or change them pre-emptively with a new set of non-servicable units and ignore them for another 60k miles.

I went with 245/75/16 Cooper Discoverer ST/C tires, which I'm happy with. They don't look super aggressive, but they seem to get the job done. They wear like iron, the ride is OK at 40psi, and work acceptably on snow and ice. I even used them up north when I was a recovery crew at Rallye Perce Neige, which saw me driving *with pace* on ice and snow for 16 hours where they performed well. I don't think this could be accomplished with swampers. They're good on the highway, I don't need to regear, they balance well...

And I went with HD OME springs and shocks. I think the 2" lift really improves the capability over stock, without getting too high that CG is a huge concern. I believe they're also stiffer than something like the RTE springs which helps stability and load capacity. It really just depends on what you want to do with the truck.

Overall, my truck isn't too high. I can still fit in my 7' garage door, WITH a light bar on the roof. It's relaxed to drive on the highway, and as I mentioned above, performs surprisingly well trying to keep up with a rally on twisty mountain roads.

One thing I don't have yet but I think is critical is swaybar disconnects. I don't like driving on-road with the swaybar removed, but the difference off-road is so incredible, and you really need the flexibility when you've got small tires and stiffer springs. Swaybar disconnects just make the situation so much better. The only drawback I see is the potential for more transmitted noise due to the links they're using? But I don't know yet.

The front bumper is another contentious issue. I went with the ARB, and was pleasantly surprised that the mounting system for the 04's is different than the earlier models. I think it will be much more resistant to tweaking. It does suffer on approach angle, but I really haven't found it to hold me up on any trail that the rest of the truck was capable of anyway. I also wanted more protection for the front of the truck compared to the razor blade bumpers. Access to the winch isn't the greatest, but hasn't been a problem yet.

I haven't yet but will get a steel rear bumper because it's pretty much impossible to not drag your MMM over everything. I've already ripped my plastic one off once.

The braking system is pretty good as-is, I recommend sticking with standard rotors and I like the Ferodo pads I recently swapped to. I think some of the other blingy setups are just wasted money. I could make the same glowing remarks about their performance as you read about the blingy stuff, but the reality is that any time you put new brakes on an old truck, they will feel wonderful compared to what came off.

It really depends on what your goals are with the truck. I found this setup to GREATLY increase the capability of the truck, while having almost NO impact on the long distance driveability or reliability. I have yet to encounter a trail that it wasn't capable of with the following caveats: There are some obstacles I've taken bypasses. There are some obstacles which maybe I could have done with more clearance, but would really have rathered be on a winch line anyway. I find that once you start building up bigger than this, you start driving past these trails, looking for trouble. If you build up bigger, you start losing on-road capability, and then have to look for harder trails to challenge the truck... and if that's your goal, there are so many other platforms that are a better starting point than a D2 anyway.

So far I've been happy with my approach to keep it lower and smaller, but then armor the bottom to take the inevitable hits. I've got the QT diff guards, which are lighter duty than the sewer cap mod, but I like that they act more like sliders than a battering ram. I also REALLY did not like the idea of welding on that sewer cap because I would think there's going to be a lot of warpage on the axle, unless it's only tacked on but... the details of it weren't clear to me.

Now this makes driving on trails much less nerve racking because I'm not constantly worried about tearing open the diffs. The next most vulnerable thing I've found is the track bar which I keep bending and have to do something about. Beyond that I've got an idea for an integrated mid-section skidplate frame combined with rock sliders. It would be a large frame to support skid plates, and would be stronger than typical rock sliders so that I could build in nerf bars without worrying about them tweaking up.

But, that's in the future. As I say, my goal is to keep it low, uparmor the bottom, keep it streetable, and just decide what you want to do with the truck.

 

[michaels]

hmm....i'm quite happy with my slimline front bumper, winch, and hella 4ks.

i have an RTE 2" lift and a spacer in the rear. i would skip OME shocks and go straight to fox or bilstein. i'll be swapping the OMEs out in the rear for FOX 2.0s sometime ehre in the near future.

the truck is sitting on 255/85 BFG MTs. the tires are a little louder, but the cabin is still very quiet. i've found this tire size to be good on long highway trips as well as on the trail. the truck is no more of a dog than it was before. passing takes a tid bit more throttle, bu just drop her down to third and it's been fine. gas mileage is good when my exhaust leak is fixed.

 

[craig]

A very conservative, but proven build:

- Old Man Emu 2" Lift - Just enough to clear 32s. Keeps the center of gravity low.
- 265/75/16 All Terrains
- Rovertym wide face front bumper (not the slimline)... or an ARB. The ARB has some downfalls such as decreased approach angle and poor winch access. Still, it might suit your needs perfectly. Another option is a Land Rover genuine discreet winch mount tray.
- Winch
- Slickrock sliders
- Front/rear diff guards - QT/Safari Gard/other
- Upgraded Steering components from Rovertym, or a Safari Gard Steering protector. Steering and diffs are the most vulnerable parts of the DII.
- Rear departure angle is poor... so you need to protect it at a minimum or improve it. Rovertym makes a very factory looking rear bumper. Greg Davis makes a bumper that improves and protects but since it requires you to cut the vehicle doesn't seem consistent with this build.
- Hella 4000 lights on Rovertym, or Hella 4000 compacts on the ARB bullbar.
- Skip the roofrack. Looks "expedition" but is noisy, decreases fuel economy, and is rarely used.
- Truckvault storage drawers (or other) to maximize the rear cargo area will get you the space you need since you don't have the roofrack. The high roof of the DII makes the cargo drawers work exceptionally well, and allows you to put heavy items in the back of the drawers over the rear axle.
- Build a rear door shelf. If I did my truck over again, this would be my first modification.
- ARB rear locker, Rovertracks HD axles, Tom Woods rear driveshaft. ARB is an open (stock) diff when not locked, so the truck continues to handle great. A TrueTrack is also a fantastic choice in a DII since it works with the traction control to be almost as good as a true locker.

By conservative, I mean that the truck will be improved offroad, but continue to handle/drive well onroad.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

really great stuff people~!


Any remarks on the difference between HD springs vs Standard Springs and on road manners? We will most likely keep our 18 inch stock Disco wheels on until we head out for a trip and then just pop on the 16s

we are looking at shock and spring kit. We will always be carrying 3 adults and one child since we have people go with us all the time it could be more like 4 adults and one child + some heavy gear.

I want to keep the on road manners while using 18s and I really don't want to raise the vehicle height any more than I have to since we will have a full load up top. So 1.5 -2 inches max

I really like Han's set up height on EE but not sure if that is one or 2 - my guess 2inches

again keeping the 18s on for daily stuff and using the 16s during winter and adventure use

any recommendations to keep daily driving manners but stiff suspension as to avoid rear sag?

many thanks!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I haven't tried a lot of the different suspensions available for the D2, only stock, and my OME setup. And, I changed to the OME shortly after switching to the 245/75/16 10-ply tires which also play a large role. So, I will not claim to be able to make a good direct comparison.

However, I am pretty well trained on assessing ride quality, and I'm very pleased with the OME setup. It is exactly how I like my vehicles. The OME shocks have good low speed valving, without excessive high speed damping. Primary body motions are very well controlled, yet the impact harshness isn't too bad. Impacts with small square edge features like train tracks is pretty terrible, but the truck was like that with the stock setup. That is mostly due to the front suspension geometry which doesn't have any kinematic recession. I think it got worse, but probably due to the tires mostly. You can't fix it with springs and shocks. OME really got a lot of things right on this setup, things that aftermarket suspension tuners often don't. There's no pitching at high speeds, and no low frequency oscillations.

It is firmer, no doubt. But it doesn't have any of the classic problems you often get with a HD truck suspension. So the ride is firm, but it's not punishing or annoying in any way. I actually prefer it over many stock SUV setups. I hate underdamped suspensions that wallow around after every bump, yet I also hate excessively crashy suspensions that are supposed to be "sporty".

So, glowing review. I really really like the setup.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Thanks Rob, excellent choice in tires too, I'm a big fan! Again great information and thank you

 

[Steve Rupp]

I understand what you're saying and yeah any meathead can figure out that it'll flex more without sway bars, but on the trail it pretty makes no difference with a 2" lift. This is coming from 7 years wheeling with a bunch of D2's. A 2" lifted D2 with sway bars will go everywhere the same truck without sway bars and with just as much grace.

 

[jham]

A 2" lifted D2 with sway bars will go everywhere the same truck without sway bars and with just as much grace.

Noted, good information. 2" is all I'm planning on doing with mine, and I was wondering about the sway bar issue.

Now my question, which I think Thom hit on, but I'm too lazy to look. If I swap out the factory watts linkage, and my shocks and ABS lines allow, now my sway bar is the limiting factor, right?

 

[muskyman]

gone

 

[Mike_rupp]

people negate to look at the value in great stuff. the farther you can push the wheel up before it reaches the bump stop the longer the chassis remains level and stable. once that bump stop is reached it then starts lifting the chassis.

This is a concept that so many rookies have a hard time understanding. When I first bought my truck and started searching around, you could see how mods are sold to the rookies. Things like cones are so appealing to someone who hasn't been on a trail. You sit at home and see that axle dropped so far down that the top of the tire is way below the sills and you automatically associate that with the ability to get through anything. What is hard to grasp is that tire is getting virtually no traction whatsoever. The opposite tire which has the weight of the vehicle on it has all of the traction.

I'd much rather have a well balanced suspension with a decent amount of uptravel.

 

[sboada]

I was under the impression that the tire with the least resistance got the most power, sans lockers of course. That being the case, I would argue that having more articulation would enable you to keep more "feet" on the ground thus eliminating the spinning wheel in the air...

 

[Steve Rupp]

The first part is right and the second part is wrong. Forget about lockers. It doesn't matter how much articulation you have that tire that is dropped out is going to have so little resistance on the ground that it'll have almost no traction. It doesn't matter what kind of ground you're on that tire will spin with little or no traction. So all the crazy flex isn't going to give you much of a benefit. Like Thom said, you're better off having more stuff so that the truck stays more level.

Now add lockers. I would still rather have more stuff to keep the body level and retained springs to keep the vehicle more stable in off camber situations. A ton of flex in Land Rovers is cool for pictures but that's about as far as it goes.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

If anybody is unsure about removing the swaybar, just go ahead and pop it out and give it a try for yourself. Don't believe me, or anybody else. Try it, it's easy. You can remove the front swaybar without even lifting the truck. You need a wratchet and socket, and a small pair of vice grips. You don't have to touch anything other than the swaybar. It takes minutes, it's almost like they designed it to come out easily, it's just sitting there in plain view with no accessibility problems.

I find, not only does it help articulation, it even helps on easy stuff. Removing the swaybar helps even the weight distribution, which helps traction, even on simple mucky roads with stones burried in it. It's not a difference of making it or not making it. But it makes the ride smoother, with less stopping and starting each time you encounter a stone that stops forward progress, and have to gas it with tires spinning to get the TC to work to get a wheel up over the rock. With the swaybar removed, it's easier for a wheel to get up over a boulder without spinning anything.

It also makes the ride more comfortable for passengers even on level 2 trails. There's less pitching side to side with irregularities on the ground, the truck stays more level. That in itself is worth the effort to me.

I do agree with what's been said about cones, etc. I really don't see the point in modifying your suspension to the point the axle can droop enough to unseat the spring. Once the spring is unseated, there's obviously no weight on that tire, and so it's doing nothing for stability or traction. If you want that much articulation, I'd think longer, softer springs would be the way to go. But then that has other issues.

Disconnecting the front sway bar is free, and easy to do. Don't listen to any experts, just try it yourself and see if you like it. If you don't see the difference, put it back and forget about it.