Our Echo 5

96r50

Observer
I've been camping since I was a kid and my wife also really enjoys being outside. We've done a number of camping trips together by car and by canoe. Getting outside is one of our favourite things to do together. I'd been kicking the idea of a RTT around in my head for years and last spring my wife and I started talking about it a bit more seriously. We we really leaning towards the hardshell style ones for ease of setup, aerodynamics, and easy installation and removal. Every time a group buy, sale or good deal came up we talked about it. Thankfully we never made the leap to purchase one since during the summer we found out that we were going to become a family of four! After picking my jaw up off the floor I started thinking how things were going to change and what we could do to make sure we didn't stop getting outside and camping as much as we can even with two little girls in tow.

We both knew that if it was going to take us hours and hours to pack the truck for camping and then more time to set up when we got there it would seriously reduce the amount of trips we would be willing to do. We wanted to come up with a solution that kept camping at the top of our list of fun and easy things to do. We quickly realized that a RTT would be challenging with little kids so we expanded our research and looked at dozens of different setups and came to the conclusion that our preference was some sort of trailer-based setup with an integrated sleeping area. This would allow us to keep the trailer nearly packed and ready to go so it would only be a matter of loading up some fresh food, water, and the kids and get on the road. Set up times at camp would also be greatly reduced, allowing for more camping and less mucking with stuff. We really liked the Adrenalin Rush that jonharis has (and clearly it was twin tested and approved!) but after reading some reports of trouble with their trailers and the difficulty people were having contacting someone at the company we were pretty hesitant. Also with the Canadian dollar taking a beating it wasn't a great time to be buying cross border.

We were kind of stuck until one night my wife sent me a link to the Echo trailers on the North American Safari Company site. I spent the rest of the night on that site, the South African Echo Trailers site and any other page that Google turned up with a shred of info about these trailers. I emailed NASC that night for more information and to see if we could look at one of the trailers that weekend since as luck would have it, they were only a few hours away! Denise got back to me the next day with lots of info and answers to my questions. We went out to their showroom that weekend to look at the Echo 5, something I figured would only take an hour at most. Almost four hours after walking in the door we finally left! Denise and Michael were very friendly and helpful, answering all of our questions and more. They've had their own Echo 5 for a few years (towing it with an FJC) and clearly know their products inside and out. The trailer seemed very well thought out and a perfect fit for what we wanted. We drove home that night with a lot of excited conversation going around in the truck. Three weeks later we owned an Echo 5 and were taking our first trip with it!

I don't have many pictures of the trailer in action at the moment as camping in the mountains in late fall/winter doesn't motivate me to take photos but I hope to remedy that this summer. I plan to use this thread to keep track of some of the trips we've done and any modifications I make to the trailer as well as answer questions about it as they come up. I know these are still pretty rare in North America as they were only recently approved by Transport Canada. I believe Denise and Michael are working on the US DOT approvals as well so hopefully they can start sending them stateside soon too.

On to the photos and such!
 

96r50

Observer
Our first trip was a sort of honeymoon road trip through British Columbia. We picked up the trailer on a Saturday in late November and after some more practice setting up and tearing down we headed west. Our timing and route plan could have been better as the highway turned to ice and frozen snow as soon as the sun started down behind the mountains. We left the NASC warehouse mid afternoon and as soon as we got into the mountain passes the road conditions deteriorated rapidly. We spent most of the drive from Cranbrook to Salmo (200km) in 4H and going less than 60km/h. When we finally decided to stop in Salmo we found a motel/RV park that was open. The owner looked at us like we were nuts but said we could set up wherever we wanted. When we asked how much he just laughed and told us not to freeze to death! Setting up in the dark was a bit of challenge but it went pretty well considering the accompanying freezing rain. With the Mr Buddy heater on for a few hours the tent warmed up quickly and we were quite comfortable all night even with the heater off. We woke up the next morning to snow coming down. Breakfast was a quick meal of reheated leftovers from home and hot cider and then we were back on the road.

The morning
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We made it to Osoyoos in time for lunch on a pullout overlooking the town
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From there we headed to Vancouver for a night indoors with family. Our trip continued the next day with a ferry ride to Vancouver Island (convincing the BC Ferries agent that this was a camping trailer was a lot harder than I would have expected. I did everything short of set up the tent!) and more visiting. We camped in the rain in Nanaimo and during a monsoon in Tofino and it was watertight.

Palm(?) trees at the campground in Tofino
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We then hopped another ferry to Galiano Island and spent the weekend there before heading home via the Coquihalla Highway (of "High Thru Hell" fame) and the Trans Canada.
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The truck and trailer handled the winter conditions very well. I used 4H in the mountains most of the way out as well as all the way up the Coq and it didn't seem to notice the trailer being back there. The only time I felt it back there was in some slippery corners while in 2H. The rear wheels would slip sideways a bit due to the combination of tongue weight, reduced traction, and road slope. Slowing down was the name of the game there, although the traction control did a great job of correcting the sideways motion. We came down some of those icy passes at 20-30km/h using engine braking in 4H to maintain the low speeds. The built-in mechanical brakes on the trailer also did a great job of keeping it behind us and prevented it from trying to pass us. I didn't put the winter tires on the truck before the trip thinking it would still be warm on the West Coast. My wife happily reminded me a number of times that they would have come in handy. There's always next time I guess!
 

96r50

Observer
I had some free time and nice weather in January to tinker with the trailer in the garage. Ever since noticing that the bolt pattern was the same 6x5.5 as Toyota uses on their 6 lug trucks I've wanted to see if the OEM 4Runner wheels would fit under the trailer. Knowing that the Toyota alloy wheels were hub centric though I figured it might not work out properly until I remembered that I had obtained some hub centering rings when I bought my winter wheels. I dug those out and found that there were two pairs with different interior sizes (why I don't know?) but one of the sets fit as if ordered for the trailer hubs! I lucked out again when I found that the thread pitch on the trailer lugs was the same as the Toyota lugnuts since I'd also obtained a bag of them with the aforementioned winter wheels.

The spacer size that fit the trailer hub:
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The hub:
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Before:
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After:
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The 265/70r17 is definitely a few sizes up from the original trailer tires (mounted heights of 28 ¼" and 31 ¼" respectively) and the tread is wider so they just barely tuck inside the trailer fenders. There also isn't much clearance between the tire and the inside of the top of the fender but there isn't much up travel on the trailer suspension either. According to the shock manufacturer's catalog the minimum compressed length is 237mm (9.33") and as the unloaded trailer sits now they are at about 280mm (11.33") so there's only 2" of available up travel until the shocks bottom out. There isn't more than 3" between the top of the leaf spring above the axle mounts and the trailer frame so that makes sense. I'll measure the gap again when we load up the trailer for another trip and see how it changes things, but seeing that there are 5 main leafs and 3 overload leafs I don't think the ride height will change much. I'll also have to see how the additional 1.5" of tire height affects the tent floor reaching the ground but I don't foresee any issues. I don't have a lot of experience with leaf spring suspensions though so if I'm missing anything please point it out.
 

Titanpat57

Expedition Leader
Thanks for the compliment.

It's really cool how that worked out...generally it seems trying to cross things from different countries of origin is an absolute nightmare.

How is the bounce once fully loaded? Possibly you could design a new wheel well if it begins to be an issue. I switched over to the Sensa-Tracs on the trailer....so not alot of compression.

Did you do the Airlift bags in the 4runner yet?

Keep the mods coming, that's a neat unit!
 

96r50

Observer
It's true, I was really surprised to see that everything just seems to fit without any major work.

There isn't much deflection in the suspension even when loaded. I figured that with the bed being on top of the trailer any movement up there would cause the whole thing to rock but even with two of us up there at night there's hardly any sway in the trailer body. I'm guessing the springs are pretty stiff. I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering the trailer weighs 1900lbs dry and is rated to carry 1700lbs of cargo.

I've just started looking into airbags and such for the 4Runner. I was originally hoping to find a new spring/shock combo that would handle the tongue weight but still ride well unloaded but I think that's a bit of a pipe dream. I'm debating between the Timbren bump stop replacements and the Airlift or Firestone airbags at the moment and leaning more towards the bags. How do you like yours? Any issues with them?
 

96r50

Observer
A quick tour

I've had a few people asking for more information and photos of the trailer so I'll try to give the quick tour here. There isn't enough height in the garage to set up the tent so that will have to wait until I get a chance to haul it outside.

The left side has the nosebox storage, the fridge and pantry door with jerry can holder, and the kitchen fold down table with the second, stand alone table (the textured surface you can see on the outside of the fold down). The electrical is mounted at the very back on this side as well.
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The kitchen fold down. The trailer came with all the dishes secured in minicell foam as well as basic cutlery items. We've since added to and upgraded the collection. You can also see the electrical station at the back.
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The view from the back. You can see the shore power connection (round black cover near the sticker) as well as one of the two Hella 12v connectors (above the reflector tape). The two holes in the end of the stainless steel table allow you to remove it from the fold down when it's open.
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Up close on the electrical. The yellow box is a 15 amp Samlex battery charger for charging the house battery while on shore power. The panel above it has the switches and circuit breakers for the trailer electrics (main, lights master, fridge, 12V sockets, and extra) as well as a standard 12V port and the Battery Watch monitor.
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The fridge (a supplied Waeco/Dometic CF80) gets strapped to the lower tray, while the upper has a number of moveable dividers and serves as a dry goods pantry. There are extra pockets on the door for small stuff and the dish rack and wash bin clip on below those when needed.
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The nosebox. Both shelves are removable. The pipe in the back is for filling the water tank.
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The hitch with mechanical brakes and handbrake. Note the tap for the water tank.
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The right side holds all the clothes and other stuff. The drawers are simple plastic bins that can be removed for cleaning and packing in the house. These compartments can be accessed from inside the tent via zippers in the tent wall.
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The back end of the right side has a small compartment up top as well as brackets for two 5lb propane tanks. The spare tire is mounted on the back and swings up out of the way of the rear door with the assistance of a gas strut.
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The rear door allows access to the main compartment for all the big items. Note the bar table and bottle rack on the door ;)
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The rear deck slides out on rollers like this, and then further again. The Buddy Heater did a great job of keeping the tent warm on our November trip. The Go Power case holds an 80 amp solar panel which will charge the house battery when connected to either Hella plug on the trailer. I'm working on a better way to store it in the trailer though.
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The kitchen stove sits in the bracket on the left side but I'm thinking about moving it over to the right interior wall next to the fire extinguisher in order to maximize usable space inside the trailer.
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I've only got the one photo of the tent setup in the first post but I can say that it's roomy enough for two without being too big. We bought this with the goal of continuing to get out and camp with our two little girls so we'll see how it does this summer with a pair of infants added to the mix! I would say that there is enough room for 4-5 adults to sit around inside the tent area and play cards or something but there wouldn't be much space left over. There are walls that attach to the awnings in order to make a really big room off the back and kitchen side of the trailer but we haven't taken them out of the bag. I'm guessing we won't use them too often unless we plan on basecamping in an area for multiple nights and want the extra enclosed space.

I've changed around some things since we bought the trailer and I have a small list of improvements I want to make to suit our needs. I'll try to document them here as I go, although with two new babies in the house tinkering time is getting really hard to come by so my progress will be pretty slow!
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Nice trailer. Funny you mention the whole time to pack and get moving factor having large impact on doing a trip to start with. Prime reason I picked up our trailer but my budget was much smaller I have the original Life time trailer but slowly adding modifications to it to help with the whole time factor.

What sort of price ball park are these? Are we talking 20K trailers or say $8000 trailers? I like the design all your camp gear stowed and ready to go! Hook it up toss the food and duffel bags of clothing in and your off. Yep we have kids too time is in short supply around here.
 

H0LLYW00D

Observer
Glad to see another one in Southern Alberta, I bought the first one that landed here just over a year and a half ago from the same company and could not be happier with the trailer as well.
 

Dockelly13

New member
:beer::beer::beer:
I camped next to one of these at Overland Expo East and it was **************!

That was me Kyle, seems southern Alberta collecting a few of these great trailers. Awnings with sides enclosed in work great and easy to put up. Have added some led lights since for tent and enclosed awnings. Will be great for Alaska .

North American Safari Company Facebook site has more pics......echo4x4.net
 
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96r50

Observer
Love the trailer and can't wait for more pics of the tent setup.

That's a great trailer. Enjoy that thing! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks guys! I'll try to get some tent photos up this spring, but for now if you check out the two Echo sites listed in the first post or the NASC Facebook page you can get a pretty good idea of how the tent looks.

Nice trailer. Funny you mention the whole time to pack and get moving factor having large impact on doing a trip to start with. Prime reason I picked up our trailer but my budget was much smaller I have the original Life time trailer but slowly adding modifications to it to help with the whole time factor.

What sort of price ball park are these? Are we talking 20K trailers or say $8000 trailers? I like the design all your camp gear stowed and ready to go! Hook it up toss the food and duffel bags of clothing in and your off. Yep we have kids too time is in short supply around here.

Thanks. The time and effort savings were definitely a big part of our decision to get some sort of camping trailer. We also wanted something that was offroad capable and wouldn't get beaten to bits behind the 4Runner. When we found that these trailers were practically local to us and that NASC was wonderful to deal with we were pretty much sold!

For an up to the minute price quote you'd have to contact Denise and Michael, but I can tell you that the Echo series (3, 4, and 5) trailers range from roughly $15k to $30k CAD. They are essentially turn key units (we picked ours up at the beginning of our two week trip, packed our stuff in it at the NASC warehouse and kept going from there!) and really don't need any big additions after the fact.

I camped next to one of these at Overland Expo East and it was **************!

Glad to see another one in Southern Alberta, I bought the first one that landed here just over a year and a half ago from the same company and could not be happier with the trailer as well.

:beer::beer::beer:

That was me Kyle, seems southern Alberta collecting a few of these great trailers. Awnings with sides enclosed in work great and easy to put up. Have added some led lights since for tent and enclosed awnings. Will be great for Alaska .

North American Safari Company Facebook site has more pics......echo4x4.net

I was wondering if this post would flush out any of the other owners we'd heard about! I'm glad to hear you guys are enjoying yours; we can't wait to get out and use ours more this summer.

Dockelly13, I saw your other post in the 2015 NW Overland Rally thread. I told my wife about the rally and she is onboard with the idea so it looks like there will be two Echo trailers down there this summer!

Also, if you guys are looking for more local 4WD advice and info check out Untitled Offroad.
 

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